Sublime Sound

[bazelio]

@PeterA - when you say the internal wiring is worn, do you mean it is coming apart as in the insulator is cracking?

 

[PeterA]

@PeterA - when you say the internal wiring is worn, do you mean it is coming apart as in the insulator is cracking?

hello Brian, apparently the coating on the wiring is being worn off by typical use near the bearing or pivot area. I first noticed the issue when I heard noise from this input when the arm was in certain positions but then it will go away when I moved the arm around.

other users have had the same issue and one reads about these arms being rewired. I don’t know more than that and I have never actually seen the internal wiring.

 

[bazelio]

Interesting. I wonder if SME will use the same wiring or something different this time around.

 

[Lagonda]

Yes hopefully they don't roll out the full anti-vampire treatment and smoother it in silver !

 

[bazelio]

Yeah, I think the servicing will be a positive experience. I had one of my two Kuzma 4-point arms serviced a year or so ago. At that time, Franc replaced the legacy metal pivot cups with synthetic ruby (or sapphire?) cups and changed the internal wiring to Kondo. I have no way to attribute the change in sound to pivot upgrades vs wiring changes, but the change in sound was very clear and in ways that I perceived as positive.

 

[PeterA]

Here is another video of my late aunt, Carla White, singing with her great friend, trumpeter, Manny Duran. This is from their first album called "Andruline". I heard this duo at the Blue Note in NYC in 1983 and then years later at the Blue Note in Tokyo. IMO, the sonics are better heard through YouTube feed.

 

[PeterA]

In early December, I asked DDK (David Karmeli) if he could find a specific turntable for me. He said yes and the search began. About a month ago, the table was found and we discussed details. Two weeks ago it landed in Utah and I decided to pay him a visit. I wanted to hear the table for myself, inspect it to confirm the condition, and finalize the purchase. (In hindsight, this was all unnecessary as I quickly confirmed that David is a man of his word.) I also thought it would be a fantastic opportunity to meet the gentleman who has helped and guided me with my system set up for over a year now. I ended up staying for a week. It has turned out to be the most revelatory audio experience I have had.

I am not at the same system level as most of his customers, having both a lower budget and the need to make slow and deliberate decisions about purchases. However, I am equally passionate about the hobby and wanting to hear my beloved music in the most enjoyable way possible within my limitations. What I heard in Utah confirmed a long suspicion I had been forming. I heard four different systems there, each sounding completely natural, yet slightly different. I learned why and this became the key to my understand of what "natural sound" is and how it can be achieved. I thought of my own system as being on the "natural sound" side of the spectrum, but I had to hear this for myself. I also wanted to get to know David better. He was already becoming a friend and might perhaps become the dealer with whom I would develop my system further.

Upon returning home, I listened to my system, and then redid the cartridge set up following tips David had taught me in Utah. I listened again to the same LPs I had brought and listened to at his house. This confirmed for me that I am already on the path of "natural sound". It is now simply a matter of deciding how far I want to go in the direction of his superb systems. I will know more once my new table arrives in a couple of weeks.

Here is a photo of my new Micro Seiki SX8000II in David's smaller listening room. I also bought two NOS SME 3012R tonearms to go along with this table. The table is in mint, almost "AS NEW" condition. David and I took apart the air bearing and I was able to understand the incredible level to which this table is designed and made. I listened for hours and confirmed the decision to buy it. David is everything people say about him. He is extremely thorough, knowledgable, and generous. He has his strong opinions, but I respect that and discovered on what they are based. He only deals in top quality items and operates only in the best interest of his clients. It is a rare and valuable thing.

I will be writing more about this week long experience in a dedicated thread. I will also contribute to the "Beyond turntables" thread once I have learned more about this table in my own system.

David is a real asset to this forum and to the hobby. People from around the world contacted him while I was there for set up and equipment advice. I am truly astonished. I have not learned more about audio and sound from anyone. Thank you so much, David.

1. DDK setting up the table
2. The Micro Seiki SX 8000 II
3. The contraband: 2 NOS SME 3012R arms (with cardboard box of 12 LPs I brought)

 

[Ron Resnick]

That is wonderful, Peter, on every point!

Congratulations on acquiring your "destination" turntable!

It will be interesting to watch how you continue to implement David's natural sound philosophy in your own system.

David is, indeed, a unique, incredibly experienced and extremely valuable resource for vinyl playback and vintage audio aficionados around the world!

 

[PeterA]

That is wonderful, Peter, on every point! Congratulations on getting your "destination" turntable!

I look forward to hearing more detail reports about you were busy with David. It will also be interesting to watch how you continue to implement David's natural sound philosophy in your system.

David is, indeed, a unique and incredibly valuable resource for vinyl playback aficionados around the world!

Thank you Ron. I appreciate it.

It is not just vinyl playback. People also contact him about vintage speakers, power cords and set up, and advice in general. A valuable resource indeed. And those systems, each one offered something very nice, very engaging, but slightly different. No right or wrong, just different levels of natural and sublime sound . The big Bionor with Lamm and the AS2000 is unlike anything I've heard.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I agree 1000%. See amendment to my immediately preceding post!

 

[microstrip]

Congratulations Peter - I think that your SME 3012R will be a lot happier in the Micro Seiki SX8000II than in a separate arm pod in the 30/2!

Can you report us on the sound you listened in David's small room?

 

[Kcin]

Congratulations Peter, Just wow.

I will have to contact DDK one day as you have realized my dream table today. I reflect back on my youth when I recall this table and and its Japanese cousin the Melco. No cash back then and life gets in the way as you get older. Kudos to DDK for being such a fountain of knowledge and resourceful for you.

Enjoy in good health! You have inspired me.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Congrats from me as well, Peter. Your excitement must be palpable.

 

[ddk]

I always maintain that the coolest part of this hobby are the friends, I’m grateful for having Peter over for a few days of fun sharing music and common interests during these strange times !

david

 

[the sound of Tao]

Thank you Ron. I appreciate it.

It is not just vinyl playback. People also contact him about vintage speakers, power cords and set up, and advice in general. A valuable resource indeed. And those systems, each one offered something very nice, very engaging, but slightly different. No right or wrong, just different levels of natural and sublime sound . The big Bionor with Lamm and the AS2000 is unlike anything I've heard.

Can I add my congratulations as well Peter. Exciting stuff and your new table looks great... looking forward to hearing how the next part of the journey unfolds for you and figuring more arms = perhaps more carts as well.

Also keen on hearing more about your trip and experiences with David and his rather beautiful system.

 

[Lagonda]

Congratulations Peter ! Air bearing TT's are magic And i am sure listening to Davids AS 2000 trough Bionors was very special.

 

[PeterA]

Congratulations Peter - I think that your SME 3012R will be a lot happier in the Micro Seiki SX8000II than in a separate arm pod in the 30/2!

Can you report us on the sound you listened in David's small room?

Thank you Fransisco. I will indeed share my impressions of David's systems in both rooms. I took videos for those who care to listen to them and extensive notes. I will start a new dedicated thread in a few days. I am still gathering my thoughts. Right now, I am simply enjoying my system and getting back to reality, though the system already sounds better after adjusting the cartridge on David's advice. I will say that his small room is problematic, but he was able to demonstrate to me that he can set up big horn speakers in such a challenging and small room. I was kind of surprised and consider it to be a major achievement.

 

[PeterA]

Congratulations Peter ! Air bearing TT's are magic And i am sure listening to Davids AS 2000 trough Bionors was very special.

Indeed it was Lagonda. I will say, however, as special as the big system is, I was astonished at how good another pair of vintage speakers sounded in that room, simply pushed up against the wall and used for casual listening. The two systems in his other room were also extremely good sounding, despite the limitations and major challenge of the room.

The air bearing of the SX8000 II is a wonder to behold. It is a very clever and simple design, and it is extremely well made. There is very little to go wrong. I never had a chance to inspect the AS2000 bearing, but we gave the platter a spin and came back 15-20 minutes later and it was still moving. Simply incredible. The Micro does something very similar, just not to the same degree. I now know why David chose these tables to be in his "Beyond" category.

My impression is that the AS 2000 just takes the natural sound of the SX 8000 II to a higher level. I think it is simply more, not really different. They follow the same approach to sound. They get out of the way of the presentation. Unfortunately, we did not have the time to compare the two tables side by side in the same system. David gave me the choice, but I decided to simply take his word for it. We set up and listened to the Thorens Reference instead so that I could hear how it presents the music differently from the AS 2000. There was no right or wrong, no better or worse. They were simply natural sounding. It was like hearing the same orchestra and conductor playing the same music in Vienna, Boston and Chicago. Real and convincing in both cases, just different presentations. Lesser tables do not do this, IME.

These tables, including the Micro Seiki, are examples of the best in the hobby, and I feel so fortunate to be able to own such a thing.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Peter, I know you dispensed with the pneumatic Vibraplane, feeling you get closer to natural sound without it. Any hesitation from you going back to air regarding the air bearing of your new MS tt?

 

[PeterA]

Peter, I know you dispensed with the pneumatic Vibraplane, feeling you get closer to natural sound without it. Any hesitation from you going back to air regarding the air bearing of your new MS tt?

No hesitation Marc. The air bearing on the spinning platter is a different thing than is air isolation under a turntable. I can’t really explain it and people have different opinions about this topic.

Vibraplane‘s under my amplifier and turntable dampened the sound and accentuated certain sonic attributes which I appreciated for many years. What I hear from the air bearing under the two turntables it’s something different. I do not sense any dampening of the sound or emphasis on sonic attributes. I just hear more information coming through.