Sublime Sound

[bonzo75]

Separately, Hieukm sent me two videos of a friend's dagostino YG system. After he sent the first one, I said it is poor and there seems to be some tidal or qobuz issue, as the music was struggling to flow.

A few hours later he sent the second one, and I said much better, as the music was flowing. What was the change, I asked? The answer is that the person after hearing the feedback replaced his router. So, where I thought tidal or qobuz was a problem, it was the router. This much information shows through videos. I have been following the system's videos for a while.

 

[Tango]

Sorry. Let's not talk other system. It is Peter's system thread. I apologize.

 

[Folsom]

I agree, both extremes are not good, and a balance is better. It is not easy to get. You post many system videos of other people's systems. Rarely have I seen one of your videos of a system in a dedicated, well treated, professionally designed room. You post the videos as examples of sound you like. I agree, most sound very good. I am always struck at how haphazard and normal the rooms look. I never see lots of absorption treatment.

Tang's room improved, as did the sound on his videos, when he added those wooden diffusers to the front wall covering all of glass. Surely the reflective nature of that glass did not help his room to sound natural. He did not install large heavy acoustic curtains to cover the glass.

I am trying to describe the subtle stuff, the small stuff on the recordings that can get lost in too damped a space. I heard it in my own room, so this experience is the basis of my views on the matter. Removing all of that acoustic treatment from the room, but also the glass from my paintings, helped to reveal more of the information on the recording. That information did come out of the system as direct sound, but it got lost in the room, absorbed never to be heard again. The life got sucked out of the music.

Though I have never been inside an anechoic chamber listening to the direct sound of speakers, I imagine the effect is similar, just not as pronounced in the home setting. The energy is released from the speakers, heard as direct sound, but then it vanishes rather than lingering in the room, the same way it does in a concert hall or normal chamber setting. Hearing this result in my familiar room while listening to familiar recordings was really quite a learning experience.

So maybe not you get why I say the type of glass matters more than the fact that it's there... That in general it's psychotic-audiophile-paranoia to just assume glass is inherently a problem. Just to note, I've never heard live music coming from a glassed off corner that repelled me - EVER (they've also never been in a non-commercial space with dumpy residential 2 pane glass either).

Separately, Hieukm sent me two videos of a friend's dagostino YG system. After he sent the first one, I said it is poor and there seems to be some tidal or qobuz issue, as the music was struggling to flow.

A few hours later he sent the second one, and I said much better, as the music was flowing. What was the change, I asked? The answer is that the person after hearing the feedback replaced his router. So, where I thought tidal or qobuz was a problem, it was the router. This much information shows through videos. I have been following the system's videos for a while.

Certainly makes me curious what routers...

 

[PeterA]

So maybe not you get why I say the type of glass matters more than the fact that it's there... That in general it's psychotic-audiophile-paranoia to just assume glass is inherently a problem. Just to note, I've never heard live music coming from a glassed off corner that repelled me - EVER (they've also never been in a non-commercial space with dumpy residential 2 pane glass either

The glass in the windows of my listening room is all laminated glass true divided 6/6 historic windows. The sashes are extremely heavy. The sashes are extremely heavy I did it to block out street noise from the listening room but I also think they resonate less or at a different frequency.

Removing the glass from the paintings in the room did help.

 

[the sound of Tao]

One more thing... Often, like with voting, we have to choose between the lesser of two evils and the ideal candidate is difficult to come by

Guys, what do you think of these two videos, blind test relevant to current discussion. Please post your thoughts referencing top video bottom video.

Apologies late to this so I don’t want to derail too much further but briefly this exercise really helped me clarify an issue I’ve had with Wilson Benesch speakers since having heard a few and now just get why.

For me the bottom is perhaps the lesser of two evils and the top is just more fantastic. I do have an advantage/disadvantage of knowing the speaker amp combos involved now watching so I am trying to factor out expectation bias but there is a quality of the ‘not completely natural‘ that comes with carbon fibre and composite materials for me at times. Acrylic can be overt in this quality.

The centre of the signal can be startlingly resolved and highlighted. A highlighted cleanness and zing to the clarity overall, then there’s a slight disparate fullness at the lower edges of the signal and an emphatic gleam on the top that then trails away kind of exponentially to a damped blackness. Tbh my language isn’t really up to capturing it but holistically it is just not for me evenly resolving and there are shifts that bow and flare up through the layers of frequencies that make rightness elusive.

Resolution seems higher on the top video hence the earlier correlation with horns and yes while the tick box in criteria shows in the favour of these but holistically there’s some taint of synthetic still in both. It shows for me as a disconnect through the layers of the frequencies with a slight emphasis in the top and the bottom frequencies that makes these more pronounced and just a shade or taint of some kind of subtle plastic fantastic. The way light seems to pass through acrylic changed more (or differently) to the way it passes through glass.

Impressive but still somehow the seams are fabricated. In this I’m perhaps being more informed by my previous experiences with Wilson Benesch but the video kind of emphasised the quality and clarified for me what that essential nature or characteristic might then just be.

 

[howiebrou]

I have always enjoyed the sounds when you are outside with a fresh layer of snow. It is supremely quiet, yet voices are crisp and clear. I wonder if a snow machine would solve the acoustic and air con issues all in one...

oh and I preferred Ked's top video.

 

[Folsom]

The glass in the windows of my listening room is all laminated glass true divided 6/6 historic windows. The sashes are extremely heavy. The sashes are extremely heavy I did it to block out street noise from the listening room but I also think they resonate less or at a different frequency.

Removing the glass from the paintings in the room did help.

So the windows are basically exactly what I’d suggest. But the panes on the paintings is thinner/not laminated. The laminated glass has a damping layer in it, so it’s natural resonance isn’t anywhere near say the 1-3khz range that I think thin glass lives in (and sounds harsh with reflections by sound when I’ve tested it). Some things are just consistent..

 

[bonzo75]

Certainly makes me curious what routers...

He changed from a router called edge X to linksys

 

[bonzo75]

So, the bottom video had 6 ASC tube traps. The top video had 8. 4 were added to fix the issue.

The bottom video has a plodding, muddy lower half. I liked the top one overall anyway but this was a clear factor.

Btw, I did not know what the change was when I preferred the top, I was told that later.

Also, I can't hear the issues with the bass on the phone, but when I stream from my phone to a small speaker.

 

[Al M.]

So, the bottom video had 4 ASC tube traps. The top video had 8. 4 were added to fix the issue.

The bottom video has a plodding, muddy lower half. I liked the top one overall anyway but this was a clear factor.

Btw, I did not know what the change was when I preferred the top, I was told that later.

Also, I can't hear the issues with the bass on the phone, but when I stream from my phone to a small speaker.

Interesting. I had 6 ASC TubeTraps in my room, and I removed as many as I could to lessen dampening my room. I ended up with keeping 3 TubeTraps. One reason being bass quality, the second being the avoidance of too recessed images on some recordings.

Peter's room works well without TubeTraps, but his speakers are closer to the front wall (less issues with recessed imaging), and the bass doesn't go quite as deep as in my system with subwoofers; these may make TubeTraps more necessary.

So it all depends on the situation. As you said in a post yesterday, it is too much case by case. There is no hard and fast rule.

 

[Al M.]

BTW, I preferred the top video as well, but I hear problems with synthetic sound on both, just as Sound of Tao observes. I hear a plasticky tone on the violin. I had thought that was a problem of the video quality, but perhaps the video indeed reveals an artifact coming from the speakers.

Very interesting stuff, Ked.

 

[tima]

Separately, Hieukm sent me two videos of a friend's dagostino YG system. After he sent the first one, I said it is poor and there seems to be some tidal or qobuz issue, as the music was struggling to flow.

A few hours later he sent the second one, and I said much better, as the music was flowing. What was the change, I asked? The answer is that the person after hearing the feedback replaced his router. So, where I thought tidal or qobuz was a problem, it was the router. This much information shows through videos. I have been following the system's videos for a while.

He changed from a router called edge X to linksys

So the source is streamed into the fellow's system via two different routers at different times, and the source is identical for both? And in your post, the dark video was the first one streamed?

So two differences, router and double tube traps? Am I following this correctly?

 

[bonzo75]

So the source is streamed into the fellow's system via two different routers at different times, and the source is identical for both? And in your post, the dark video was the first one streamed?

No the router post has nothing to do with the videos posted, so it starts with the word separately.

 

[tima]

No the router post has nothing to do with the videos posted, so it starts with the word separately.

Okay, so post #2041 has nothing to do with the video discussion. My wife does that to me sometimes.

 

[dan31]

Makes sense. I liked both, but I chose the second, maybe 40/60.

 

[bonzo75]

Okay, so post #2041 has nothing to do with the video discussion. My wife does that to me sometimes.

It does have to do with THE video discussion, but not with the videos I posted here

 

[Tango]

So, the bottom video had 4 ASC tube traps. The top video had 8. 4 were added to fix the issue.

The bottom video has a plodding, muddy lower half. I liked the top one overall anyway but this was a clear factor.

Btw, I did not know what the change was when I preferred the top, I was told that later.

Also, I can't hear the issues with the bass on the phone, but when I stream from my phone to a small speaker.

The bottom is 4 (2 each side behind speaker) And the top is added to 8? Wow...what a twisted ending. It would be interesting to know where he put another 4... at the back corners of the room?

I had 4 big tubetrap placed like the bottom video before but they never clear the air lifted the veil like this.

 

[bonzo75]

The bottom is 4 (2 each side behind speaker) And the top is added to 8? Wow...what a twisted ending. It would be interesting to know where he put another 4... at the back corners of the room?

I had 4 big tubetrap placed like the bottom video before but they never clear the air lifted the veil like this.

Yes. He added them behind the speakers

His room is 3x3x6

He had the short one in front, the tall one at the back. The tall one in middle was added. In each corner

 

[howiebrou]

Yes. He added them behind the speakers

His room is 3x3x6

He had the short one in front, the tall one at the back. The tall one in middle was added. In each corner

View attachment 70589

Is that the WB Eminence?

 

[bonzo75]

Correction, he had 6 behind before, not 4, one short and the double in each corner. Then he added 4