State of the industry - Roy Gregory Editorial

howiebrou

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Harry and Emma for Boomers?
C'mon daddy-o!
I guess your kids can obsess over Ariande Grande's Swarovski-encrusted IPhone, maybe that's the future of the high end.
I was referring to my kids' generation. They are 13 and 14 years old (which incidentally is the age at which i got into audio) and Emma and Harry are way too fuddy duddy not too mention their increasing penchant for wokeness. The influencers they follow have very little discernible talent apart from producing YT videos. Emma is a talented actress whilst Harry is very talented at being subservient to someone else.
 

spiritofmusic

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Indeed they are. This is RIAA 2020-2021 Volume and Sales for physical media:

View attachment 91598

2021 vinyl units shipped increased by ~67% over 2020.

Edit: reasonable to assume government lockdowns were a factor as more people were at home. It will be interesting to see if growth rate can be sustained over the next few years.
There are reasonable reports that Boomers and older Millennials buy this vinyl to play music, y'know, how God intended.
And the youngsters buy it purely as an artifact, for the cover art, but playing vinyl as a phenomenon is not the first thing on their mind.
 

Chop

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Does anyone in this hobby know anyone really interested in the hobby, even those with a true love for music? I don't, no audiophile I know does either.
All we have are long suffering partners, friends who look at us as if we need our lithium or tramadol and quick.
And those who you'd think would be into the hobby are resolutely immune to its charms.
My GF's brother has a couple of thousand CDs and goes to live classical multiple times a week, he runs a very modest lo fi system.
I have three professional classical musicians and a club DJ as patients, they just dismiss the idea of a specialist system at home.
And woe betide you mention the hobby to any music lover under 25, if looks of incredulity and pity could kill, I'd be dead many times over.
Of course, play some music to these listeners on my rig, and they're in the moment in a way no IPod could manage, but the moment they're out of the room, the spell is broken and they're back onto ITunes.
The hobby is dead to anyone under 35 as far as I can see.
Well, my son is really interested & he's 24. He loves all sorts of music & loves sitting and listening to Dad's system. But then he's been brainwashed...
One day he will end up with my system (hopefully not for another 50 years :)) and wants to know how to put it together "but there are a crazy number of boxes and wires to learn about". This more than anything else puts him off the idea of putting together his own system. His problem with "The Stereo" as he calls it is that its easier to stream music than mess around with a turntable and have to set it all up, deal with hum, position speakers accurately etc etc.
If good audio is seen as hassle why would young people want to have it?
 
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morricab

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Actually I don’t have a problem with either magazine these days and believe they provide an information service as Elliot mentioned. It’s the HP days and his power over the industry and unnatural influence with the consumer that I had a problem with and I see him in particular extremely toxic in that period. A lot of confusion today is a direct result of both magazines.
david
I think HPs initial concept and pursuit of making Hifi sound like “real instruments in real space” was fundamentally correct. His development of audio descriptive language was important but he was no scientist and therefore his methodology was chaotic and sometimes results contradictory. But I don’t think he was toxic...he was a seeker.
 

howiebrou

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Well, my son is really interested & he's 24. He loves all sorts of music & loves sitting and listening to Dad's system. But then he's been brainwashed...
One day he will end up with my system (hopefully not for another 50 years :)) and wants to know how to put it together "but there are a crazy number of boxes and wires to learn about". This more than anything else puts him off the idea of putting together his own system. His problem with "The Stereo" as he calls it is that its easier to stream music than mess around with a turntable and have to set it all up, deal with hum, position speakers accurately etc etc.
If good audio is seen as hassle why would young people want to have it?
Which is probably why most can't cook either. Deliveroo is much simpler.
 

howiebrou

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There are reasonable reports that Boomers and older Millennials buy this vinyl to play music, y'know, how God intended.
And the youngsters buy it purely as an artifact, for the cover art, but playing vinyl as a phenomenon is not the first thing on their mind.
I don't have a problem with them buying it mainly for the art work or because it is trendy. After all many expensive watches or trainers are bought for the way they look not because they tell time better than my casio or are more comfortable than a pair of Eccos.
 
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bonzo75

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I don't have a problem with them buying it mainly for the art work or because it is trendy. After all many expensive watches or trainers are bought for the way they look not because they tell time better than my casio or are more comfortable than a pair of Eccos.

Given how many times we keep rehashing other topics including on this thread I am quite supportive of having the Shoes thread conversation here
 

bonzo75

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Which is probably why most can't cook either. Deliveroo is much simpler.

With food, you can cook, go to a fine dining restaurant, do a drive by pick up, and order deliveroo all on the same day. With audio you cannot. That's my wise philosophic insight for today.

Separately, deliveroo is very good but one needs to shortlist by ratings and go through the bad to find the good. The default Deliveroo algorithm is based on logistics, i.e. recommending those that at that time are scheduled for delivery on the way to you.
 

spiritofmusic

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I don't have a problem with them buying it mainly for the art work or because it is trendy. After all many expensive watches or trainers are bought for the way they look not because they tell time better than my casio or are more comfortable than a pair of Eccos.
My point Howie is that noone, old or young, buys beautiful jewellery or watches, or cars, or roadbikes, or handbags, or trainers etc etc, to purely look at. Maybe only this hobby has a young contingent not deeply into the culture.
Right now on any number of digital channels and online there will be umpteen style programmes on every aspect of cars, clothes, jewellery etc, and they will all be aspirational to all ages.
Our hobby is the most prominent one missing from all this.
 

andromedaaudio

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How can the youth afford it these days anyway with all the " wise " elders of this world debasing the currencies .
Let alone buy a house or stereo i m even surprised they can survive
 
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spiritofmusic

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Andro, your point is very true. For me it's the visibility and desirability of the hobby amongst under 45s, esp under 25s.
So, I still see youngsters obsessing about trainers, roadbikes, travel, coffee...as do the oldies as well.
But listening to a good system at home, uninterrupted on a dedicated system...not so much.
Fascinatingly, AV systems also requiring dedicated sit down time gets strong profile in the media.
Just not music.
 

Al M.

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Predisposition, yes...the person has to care greatly about music. If they don’t then what they heard will be a curiosity...nothing more.

Priorities can be changed. I once got asked by a female friend of mine to help her build a home theater systems. Her boyfriend played on a band but they didn’t have any Hifi system other than some old junk left over from University days. I told her we can start with speakers and after a day picking those (nice pair of Audioplan Kontrast IIIs) she and her boyfriend decided they wanted a great Hifi rig rather than a home theater. In the end they had a tube preamp and 20 watt SET monos and just like that a true high end system in one go because they reprioritized.

"Priorities can be changed."

Or not.

When I started with the hobby more seriously back in the day in the Netherlands I had a friend who deeply loved music and played the viola himself. He always loved to listen to my system and was even proud to show it off to others. He did buy, upon my advice and after listening at a dealer, a more natural sounding Rotel CD player replacing his Denon, and he was super happy with it.

He also went to a dealer with me once to listen to an entire system of modest price but good sound. He liked it but he never bought it, and never pursued the hobby beyond his original CD player replacement.

So that's that. He did have several pairs of shiny shoes each costing $ 700 or so (something that doesn't interest me) and he spent his money on other things as well. Other priorities.
 
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howiebrou

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My point Howie is that noone, old or young, buys beautiful jewellery or watches, or cars, or roadbikes, or handbags, or trainers etc etc, to purely look at. Maybe only this hobby has a young contingent not deeply into the culture.
Right now on any number of digital channels and online there will be umpteen style programmes on every aspect of cars, clothes, jewellery etc, and they will all be aspirational to all ages.
Our hobby is the most prominent one missing from all this.
And our hobby is one of the few that can not be displayed on the street to friends and strangers. Where's the fun in that? I knew someone over here who drove a brand new Rolls Royce but lived in a very small apartment. The Roller was for image. A hifi system would have done bugger all in that department.

Scroll through Robb Report and see what percentage of things allow you display your ostentatious wealth and which will be hidden away better than a camel's fart in a sandstorm.
 
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morricab

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And our hobby is one of the few that can not be displayed on the street to friends and strangers. Where's the fun in that? I knew someone over here who drove a brand new Rolls Royce but lived in a very small apartment. The Roller was for image. A hifi system would have done bugger all in that department.

Scroll through Robb Report and see what percentage of things allow you display your ostentatious wealth and which will be hidden away better than a camel's fart in a sandstorm.
Do you buy your system for prestige or to show off? Neither do I. People who are interested in that are not the ones you want to attract anyway.
 

howiebrou

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Do you buy your system for prestige or to show off? Neither do I. People who are interested in that are not the ones you want to attract anyway.
Well if they can help bring the price down I don't mind! Also some will convert sooner or later. The important thing is to get more people interested.
 
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microstrip

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They are a bit of a blur now but I think around 2014 was the best one...

It seems you part of the large majority. Looking around in the net I found that 2014 was really the vintage harvest. Looking at the many movies in youtube of these sessions I found that the source was just red book digital (CEC TL3.0x Kondo KSL DAC) - and the room has plenty of glass - the whole front wall. Curious that several SET/horn aficionados report that the best stereo session of their live was experienced with CD's ...

Before you ask, ;) I am not considering Living Voice - too expensive for me. My interest in these sessions was triggered by searching about the Kondo KSL DAC.
 

microstrip

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Indeed they are. This is RIAA 2020-2021 Volume and Sales for physical media:

View attachment 91598

2021 vinyl units shipped increased by ~67% over 2020.

Edit: reasonable to assume government lockdowns were a factor as more people were at home. It will be interesting to see if growth rate can be sustained over the next few years.

Well, comparing to a format that is slowly becoming obsolete can create a feeling of success.

IMHO the rise of vinyl is a social phenomenon, not an high-end or audiophile matter. Besides I would say that more than 95% of these LPs were somewhere processed in digital format.
 
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rbbert

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I think HPs initial concept and pursuit of making Hifi sound like “real instruments in real space” was fundamentally correct. His development of audio descriptive language was important but he was no scientist and therefore his methodology was chaotic and sometimes results contradictory. But I don’t think he was toxic...he was a seeker.
This was part of my argument in support of the early incarnations of TAS and Stereophile. I personally think that the current version of TAS can be considered somewhat "toxic" for reasons I have expounded on earlier in this thread.
 
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rbbert

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Well, comparing to a format that is slowly becoming obsolete can create a feeling of success.

IMHO the rise of vinyl is a social phenomenon, not an high-end or audiophile matter. Besides I would say that more than 95% of these LPs were somewhere processed in digital format.
Also note that CD unit sales increased significantly as well. Overall I'm not sure those sales figures apply much to high-end audio or audiophiles...
 

bonzo75

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Looking around in the net I found that 2014 was really the vintage harvest.

Can you please explain this statement? Vintage harvest?
 

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