State-of-the-Art Digital

[microstrip]

Maybe that is the reason why I vastly prefer the ESL57 over the ESL63

Do you prefer the ESL57 as they were designed of without felts or grilles?

 

[christoph]

Do you prefer the ESL57 as they were designed of without felts or grilles?

I listened to the 57 as designed, as I did to the 63.
The ESL57 are gone in the meantime and I never had ESL63.
Sorry for being OT

 

[IanG-UK]

Well , it is probably why they had to issue a version 2 of the Quad 405 with less active current limiters - if they have listened they would have found earlier that with some existing speakers the 405 sounded horrible, even at moderate levels.

Anyway I have read that the net mesh glued to the stators that damps the ESL63 panels was tuned by listening, although Peter Walker designed the whole ESL63 based on mathematical models and no prototypes were built for listening.

My recollection is that the original 405 was designed primarily with the ESL63 in mind. Indeed, even with that proviso, Quad recommended that users inserted some resistors(?) provided to further limit the ESL63 diaphragm travel. In the early ESL63s the protection circuitry was far from perfect and I recall making my own ESL63s arc despite the use of a limited 405.

I think that the listening statements which Quad claimed applied to their power amplifiers were not paralleled by similar claims for the ESL63. Indeed, Quad had to decide on what they regarded as an appropriate delay line feed so as to suit the maximum number of users in typical domestic environments.

Maybe that is the reason why I vastly prefer the ESL57 over the ESL63

And yes, at modest volumes for single listeners the ESL57 still provides a remarkable experience over 60 years after launch.

 

[Al M.]

Today I heard the full dCS Vivaldi stack at Goodwin's High End, in a great system: Vivaldi > Spectral DMC-30SV > Nagra HD amps > Rockport Lyra.

Great body and density of tone, not a trace of thinness or 'sterility' that dCS is routinely accused of. But the most surprising was orchestral strings, especially the violin section. There was a similarity to live sound as I have never heard before, neither from digital nor from analog (vinyl). The sound had not just great, convincing body, but a silky liquidity and flow that was uncanny. The natural silkiness and texture of massed violin sound was captured in all its intricate micro detail, yet without calling attention to any of this detail. There was no grain, not even on the finest level, whatsoever. And get this, the recording on which I heard this was a plain 16/44.1 CD (played through the Vivaldi transport), digitally recorded in June of 1988 (!), thus an "early" digital recording. It is the 9th Symphony of Bruckner, played by the Vienna Philharmonic under Guilini, on DGG:

https://www.amazon.com/Bruckner-Symphony-No-9-Anton/dp/B000001GAM

I knew from my own system and elsewhere that this was a great recording, but the string sound was simply on another level. It was pretty shocking. Certainly, I would want to go back and check that first impression, but I am relatively confident that it was as good as I thought it was.

Of course, the system that I heard today was excellent, but the experience confirmed what I had suspected all along (see also all my caveats in the previous posts on this thread) and what is also asserted by others here, which is that the external Vivaldi Clock is essential to the entire Vivaldi performance.

(I personally don't like the concept of an external clock, but if that's what it takes, so be it).

Essential seems also that the internal volume control of the Vivaldi was not used, but the signal was routed through an excellent preamp, the Spectral DMC-30SV.

Congratulations to all the owners of the full Vivaldi stack here. If I were in the business of looking for state of the art digital, the full Vivaldi stack would be on my must-do compare list.

***

Today I ran out of time to hear string quartets on the Vivaldi stack. Hopefully another time. That should be very interesting.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I don't care which reputation "neutral" has earned. Neutral means just that, neutral. Of course, nobody knows what absolute neutrality really would mean, but nonetheless it is an ideal.

Yes Al, I think it’s easy for people to get the terms neutral and analytical mixed up and I figure these are actually two different things. Neutrality as a quality can be very useful whereas analytical is not at all useful (unless the aim is to torture the music lover) as being analytical very essentially alters the way we perceive music.

I guess absolute neutrality would actually be a complete transparency which is not really a thing we’d encounter too often (or ever) but something having relative neutrality might however be more about the addition of the component not altering the essential tonal quality and balance, degree of coherence, the essential nature of the other components and or characteristic system sonic signature even if it involved some barely noticeable (but completely even) loss in resolution but that it didn’t at all alter the way you perceive the music.

I’d probably tend to use the words relatively or essentially in conjunction with it as a term just to give it some real and practical latitude to allow it be realistically fair and reflective idea in the neutrality therefore doesn’t alter perception.

 

[wisnon]

It's very easy. Just compare. The Lampi GG1 is the best especially with 242 tubes added. I have compared to both Pacific and Select 2. Then add streamers to compare, if Aurender, SGM, or the CLO transport is better

We have done all those compares in Lausanne/ Liechtensteinand and Queens NY. Pac wins hands down with all tube combos.

 

[wisnon]

Same on the Lampizator not being state of the art. It's state of the manipulation. Everyone knows it's all about curtailing a sound, it doesn't have any new tech in it what so ever. You buy it because you like the different type of sound.

MSB pushes pretty good on trying to be at the cutting edge.

But overall I'm not satisfied with any existing DAC yet.

Maybe the question isn't the right one? If you want a DAC, Ron, why are you concerned with which is the most technically advanced and not what one will suite your preferences?

the circuit and the digital engines are both unique.

 

[wisnon]

I have not heard recent dCS components.

i have....full stack... just OK to me.
mSB Sel 1....not impressed. Sel 2 I have not heard...but a few trusted ears say its very MUCH improved over Sel 1.

I think when you compare all to a properly setup Pac...I can guess what you will decide and your wallet will be happy too.

 

[KeithR]

Today I heard the full dCS Vivaldi stack at Goodwin's High End, in a great system: Vivaldi > Spectral DMC-30SV > Nagra HD amps > Rockport Lyra.

Great body and density of tone, not a trace of thinness or 'sterility' that dCS is routinely accused of. But the most surprising was orchestral strings, especially the violin section. There was a similarity to live sound as I have never heard before, neither from digital nor from analog (vinyl). The sound had not just great, convincing body, but a silky liquidity and flow that was uncanny. The natural silkiness and texture of massed violin sound was captured in all its intricate micro detail, yet without calling attention to any of this detail. There was no grain, not even on the finest level, whatsoever. And get this, the recording on which I heard this was a plain 16/44.1 CD (played through the Vivaldi transport), digitally recorded in June of 1988 (!), thus an "early" digital recording. It is the 9th Symphony of Bruckner, played by the Vienna Philharmonic under Guilini, on DGG:

https://www.amazon.com/Bruckner-Symphony-No-9-Anton/dp/B000001GAM

I knew from my own system and elsewhere that this was a great recording, but the string sound was simply on another level. It was pretty shocking. Certainly, I would want to go back and check that first impression, but I am relatively confident that it was as good as I thought it was.

Of course, the system that I heard today was excellent, but the experience confirmed what I had suspected all along (see also all my caveats in the previous posts on this thread) and what is also asserted by others here, which is that the external Vivaldi Clock is essential to the entire Vivaldi performance.

(I personally don't like the concept of an external clock, but if that's what it takes, so be it).

Essential seems also that the internal volume control of the Vivaldi was not used, but the signal was routed through an excellent preamp, the Spectral DMC-30SV.

Congratulations to all the owners of the full Vivaldi stack here. If I were in the business of looking for state of the art digital, the full Vivaldi stack would be on my must-do compare list.
.

Al, what other dealers do you regularly visit?

 

[bonzo75]

We have done all those compares in Lausanne/ Liechtensteinand and Queens NY. Pac wins hands down with all tube combos.

You need to keep up with my postings

 

[microstrip]

the circuit and the digital engines are both unique.

Can we have some details on them or are they classified information?

 

[BMCG]

Al - am curious as to why Goodwin’s elected to run a Spectral preamp into the Nagra HD ? to me not a combination I’d considered ....but intriguing.

thank you for making the time to compose the report.

 

[Al M.]

Al - am curious as to why Goodwin’s elected to run a Spectral preamp into the Nagra HD ? to me not a combination I’d considered ....but intriguing.

thank you for making the time to compose the report.

You're welcome. I don't know why they chose that combination, other than that the Spectral preamp is one of their standard components. As you know yourself, Spectral is great, and I have heard this preamp in different systems now, always sounding good.

A WBF member who had heard the Rockport Lyra the day before and suggested that I take a listen had heard the same set-up, but with Nagra preamp.

 

[Joe Whip]

The new Spectral stereo amp is spectacular.

 

[Mdp632]

The new Spectral stereo amp is spectacular.

Yes, now can you imagine if they ever released an SV Dac.

It would certainly be named in this "Best of" Digital Thread.

Also, I'd name the Berkeley Reference DAC 3

@Al M. @ack

Have you heard the new Ref 3 at Goodwin's ? If so, curious on your thoughts.

 

[microstrip]

Today I heard the full dCS Vivaldi stack at Goodwin's High End, in a great system: Vivaldi > Spectral DMC-30SV > Nagra HD amps > Rockport Lyra.

Great body and density of tone, not a trace of thinness or 'sterility' that dCS is routinely accused of. But the most surprising was orchestral strings, especially the violin section. There was a similarity to live sound as I have never heard before, neither from digital nor from analog (vinyl). The sound had not just great, convincing body, but a silky liquidity and flow that was uncanny. The natural silkiness and texture of massed violin sound was captured in all its intricate micro detail, yet without calling attention to any of this detail. There was no grain, not even on the finest level, whatsoever. And get this, the recording on which I heard this was a plain 16/44.1 CD (played through the Vivaldi transport), digitally recorded in June of 1988 (!), thus an "early" digital recording. It is the 9th Symphony of Bruckner, played by the Vienna Philharmonic under Guilini, on DGG:

https://www.amazon.com/Bruckner-Symphony-No-9-Anton/dp/B000001GAM

I knew from my own system and elsewhere that this was a great recording, but the string sound was simply on another level. It was pretty shocking. Certainly, I would want to go back and check that first impression, but I am relatively confident that it was as good as I thought it was.

Of course, the system that I heard today was excellent, but the experience confirmed what I had suspected all along (see also all my caveats in the previous posts on this thread) and what is also asserted by others here, which is that the external Vivaldi Clock is essential to the entire Vivaldi performance.

(I personally don't like the concept of an external clock, but if that's what it takes, so be it).

Essential seems also that the internal volume control of the Vivaldi was not used, but the signal was routed through an excellent preamp, the Spectral DMC-30SV.

Congratulations to all the owners of the full Vivaldi stack here. If I were in the business of looking for state of the art digital, the full Vivaldi stack would be on my must-do compare list.

***

Today I ran out of time to hear string quartets on the Vivaldi stack. Hopefully another time. That should be very interesting.

Thanks for this thorough report - besides it is always nice to read nice things about gear we appreciate. Can you give us more details about signal and power cables? I can't imagine what cables would be recommended for such a non-orthodox system!

It is great that Giulini and the Vienna Philharmonic are particularly well served by quality Deutch Gramophone recordings either in LP or digital, the Bruckner 9th you recommended is really fabulous. I would be really happy to get the recordings of the box "Giulini in Viena" in 96/24.

And yes, I also have found that the clock is mandatory in Vivaldi systems.

 

[VLS]

You're welcome. I don't know why they chose that combination, other than that the Spectral preamp is one of their standard components. As you know yourself, Spectral is great, and I have heard this preamp in different systems now, always sounding good.

A WBF member who had heard the Rockport Lyra the day before and suggested that I take a listen had heard the same set-up, but with Nagra preamp.

The sound with the Nagra preamp was extraordinary, but I can’t contrast it with the Spectral since I haven’t heard the system since the preamps were swapped.

I had previously heard the full Nagra stack at Goodwin’s (HD amps, pre, and DAC) with the “lesser” Cygnus, and the sound seemed a bit “polite”.

But there are too many variables to reach a firm conclusion. I have heard all the components including the Vivaldi stack in lots of other contexts / speakers, but it’s safe to say that I have never heard sound as good as what I heard with the Lyras. So, my conclusion from the audition was that while the DAC and the electronics are obviously outstanding, it was the Lyras that were exceptional.

 

[Al M.]

The sound with the Nagra preamp was extraordinary, but I can’t contrast it with the Spectral since I haven’t heard the system since the preamps were swapped.

I had previously heard the full Nagra stack at Goodwin’s (HD amps, pre, and DAC) with the “lesser” Cygnus, and the sound seemed a bit “polite”.

But there are too many variables to reach a firm conclusion. I have heard all the components including the Vivaldi stack in lots of other contexts / speakers, but it’s safe to say that I have never heard sound as good as what I heard with the Lyras. So, my conclusion from the audition was that while the DAC and the electronics are obviously outstanding, it was the Lyras that were exceptional.

Or conversely, the DAC is also exceptional, and the Lyras allowed it to shine.

 

[wisnon]

You need to keep up with my postings

lol.

you need to keep up with mine.

 

[wisnon]

Can we have some details on them or are they classified information?

i have only general info. The chipset is only used by him and not made for audio industry. The circuit designs from Lukasz tend to be unconventional and have unique twists. His constant tinkering is why his products improve so fast over time.

More here: https://www.audiostream.com/content/lampizator-pacific-balanced-dac-review-page-2