Spiral Grove Centroid vs Kuzma 4-Point (on GPA Monaco 2.0)

[jfrech]

My dealer and I are doing an arm comparison. We both have Grand Prix Monaco 2.0 tables. And have both been using a Spiral Grove Centroid arm for years. We also both have the Goldfinger Statement. Please stayed tuned for my thoughts. Welcome any comments on the 4-point. I know it's been a popular arm and a good match with the GPA table. My table on top and my dealers table with just installed 4-Point on bottom. We'll move the arm over to my table in a few days...

As for 4-Point wiring, we have the silver gold option to demo, but would likely order the Cardas Clear with a din to use with our Transparent Magnum Opus Phono cables (which would need to be reterminated on my table with a din on one end)

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

We also both have the Goldfinger Statement. Please stayed tuned for my thoughts.

Very good initiative to create such a comparison. What kind of traits are you considering to compare?

 

[Down Under]

Looking forward to your impressions over the coming days.

 

[jfrech]

Very good initiative to create such a comparison. What kind of traits are you considering to compare?

Great question. Mostly if I find some sort of sound improvement. I like my Centroid, but so many good things have been written about the 4 point I thought I should give a try.

 

[dan31]

Should be interesting. I have the SG Centroid as well.

 

[No Regrets]

I'll be interested in learning more about this comparison as well. I've loved the sound from the Spiral Groove table and Centroid arm combo and would definitely consider this if I were to ever replace my current table and arm.

Please forgive my ignorance... is the Centroid a Unipivot?

Best wishes,
Don

 

[dan31]

The Centroid is a unipivot, a very special arm.

 

[No Regrets]

Thank you, Dan!

 

[tima]

As for 4-Point wiring, we have the silver gold option to demo, but would likely order the Cardas Clear with a din to use with our Transparent Magnum Opus Phono cables (which would need to be reterminated on my table with a din on one end)

Hi John - I'm curious about the choice for a DIN. Are the Transparent phono cables currently terminated with RCAs?

For those interested in details about the 4Point's construction with pictures of its jeweled bearings, along with brief coverage of sonics when mated to a GPA Monaco 2.0, please see this review:

Kuzma 4Point tonearm4Point Bejeweled – A Guided Tour of an Improved Kuzma Tonearm - Positive Feedback

Kuzma 4Point tonearm review

positive-feedback.com

 

[jfrech]

Hi John - I'm curious about the choice for a DIN. Are the Transparent phono cables currently terminated with RCAs?

For those interested in details about the 4Point's construction with pictures of its jeweled bearings, along with brief coverage of sonics when mated to a GPA Monaco 2.0, please see this review:

Kuzma 4Point tonearm4Point Bejeweled – A Guided Tour of an Improved Kuzma Tonearm - Positive Feedback

Kuzma 4Point tonearm review

positive-feedback.com

Hi Tim, the Transparent phono cables are currently terminated with RCA's. They go back soon for the Gen 6 update, I was thinking reterminating to din at source end will a better option (slightly better connector imo) than the RCA's. At this point, if I decide to get the 4-Point, I'll likely order the Cardas Clear internal wiring.

Let me know if you have any input please.

My comparison has been delayed, close family member ill and having to travel. My dealer does have the 4-Point installed in his Monaco and is currently comparing it to the Centroid. I'll post something when he's ready to comment.

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

Great question. Mostly if I find some sort of sound improvement. I like my Centroid, but so many good things have been written about the 4 point I thought I should give a try.

As far as I know, 4Point uses bearing cups with artificial Sapphire and Ruby bearing inserts, which re supposed to adress the resonance in a more efficacious manner. Is centroid equipped with a similar solution?

 

[jfrech]

As far as I know, 4Point uses bearing cups with artificial Sapphire and Ruby bearing inserts, which re supposed to adress the resonance in a more efficacious manner. Is centroid equipped with a similar solution?

The Centroid is a unipivot. So "one point" in a ruby cup....however has some innovative approaches in how the weight is slung to counteract movements where the 4Point is doing this mechanically with the 3 additional contact points...

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

The Centroid is a unipivot. So "one point" in a ruby cup....however has some innovative approaches in how the weight is slung to counteract movements where the 4Point is doing this mechanically with the 3 additional contact points...

When it comes to the centroid and unipivot solution - it is not a solution that is completely new to the market, but Centroid has enriched it with additional balancing technologies, which results in a solution that has a pretty attractive price to quality ratio, am I right?

 

[dan31]

Alan Perkins received a US patent for the Centorid arm design so there is enough new to patent. If you get a chance to listen to the Centroid arm you will hear a very solid, stable unipivot.

 

[jfrech]

When it comes to the centroid and unipivot solution - it is not a solution that is completely new to the market, but Centroid has enriched it with additional balancing technologies, which results in a solution that has a pretty attractive price to quality ratio, am I right?

Yes and given Dan31's comments, seems like the design is a basic unipivot but the execution is uniquely thought through

 

[jfrech]

So I still have not heard or seen the Kuzma 4-point in person. Some family things took priority.

I did speak to my dealer yesterday. He does thing the Centroid is more open, however the Kuzma is better in terms of bass extension and definition, overall resolution and quietness. The Centroid's various reviews really complimented it's bass and quietness, so the Kuzma seems pretty sweet in these areas. My dealer is still wondering about the wire, and if the Cardas or Kondo wiring will be better then the base Crystal silver/gold. Also, my dealer is using the silver/gold wiring direct to his phono stage (he didn't get a demo with the bi wire) so he is unable to use his Transparent Magnum Opus RCA to RCA phono cables. This is also telling me the Kuzma has a edge.

I'll try to get the arm in my system end of next week.

 

[mtemur]

My dealer is still wondering about the wire, and if the Cardas or Kondo wiring will be better then the base Crystal silver/gold. Also, my dealer is using the silver/gold wiring direct to his phono stage (he didn't get a demo with the bi wire) so he is unable to use his Transparent Magnum Opus RCA to RCA phono cables. This is also telling me the Kuzma has a edge.

Kuzma 4point is a great performer and it’s much better with Kondo internal wiring. Actually Kondo silver internal wiring can not be compared to Cardas or any above mentioned cables in terms of silky smoothness, dynamics and bass or anything else. The pricey but right way to do is using Kondo internal wire ended with a DIN connector and Kondo Ls-41 tonearm cable. Two sets of internal wiring and continuous cabling from cartridge clips to rca connectors made out of thin internal wires should be avoided. The latter is becoming very popular recently but it is not right. internal wire should end up at the bottom of the tonearm with a proper connector and a proper tonearm cable should be used in order to connect tonearm to SUT or phono pre.

 

[Jeffy]

Disagree. I have the Basis Arm and they have cable support that isolates the cable that attaches to the plinth. Works great and love the fact that I have the same cable all the way through without breaks.

 

[tima]

Two sets of internal wiring and continuous cabling from cartridge clips to rca connectors made out of thin internal wires should be avoided. The latter is becoming very popular recently but it is not right.

I do not understand. Why is it not right?

 

[scot]

HI guys

I just took delivery of a Kuzma 4point tonearm (11” version) directly wired with Kondo silver wire terminated with the Eichmann silver bullet plugs. The retail on this arm is $10,300.00 usd.

I also looked into the Spiral Groove Centroid arm but found out that they are currently not available. I was also considering their top of the line turntable and it to is not available. I was told that Alan Perkins was looking for an investor to get the company back up and running again. I was disappointed because I think he is a brilliant designer.

I haven’t mounted the Kuzma tonearm yet as I’m waiting to take delivery of a custom VPI HW-40 direct drive turntable. VPI is willing to make me a custom drilled top plate to accommodate the Kuzma tonearm as the HW-40 does not have a removable arm board. Should be an interesting combo, can’t wait to hear it. Stay tuned....

Best regards
Scot