Kuzma Stabi R compared to a Garrard 301/401??

[No Regrets]

The 4pt was the original one 11 inch I think so slightly shorter than ref313. From memory I feel the 313 was a bit more relaxed. It tracked very well and produced a more engaging sound than the SME 20/20, I had previosly , when I first explored purchasing the XL. This was in a side by side comparison, same cart, SME V arm. I think the 313 is defintely preferable to the SME V.
I got the 4pt a few yrs later. It is not a night and day difference the 313 is indeed excellent the 4pt slightly more detailed and slightly more powerful.
The 4pt worked very well with the Atlas and Airtight PC-3. I did compare the two arms with a Benz LP cartridge in each arm and to be honest the diffence was miniimal, the 313 being a bit softer.
Both arms have had upgrades from the ones I had. As with any arm there will be a synergy with the particular cartridge used. The 4pt did not like a Koetsu Coral stone when I tried it. I didn't like VDH Colibri in either one, very detailed but over bright.
btw I had the non VTA ref 313 as I had it mounted on the adjustable tower.
Hope that helps.

Thank you so much for sharing your extensive thoughts and experiences with both of these Kuzma arms! It truly is great to hear from someone who has experienced both of these on the same table with the same cartridge, no less

I appreciate you taking the time to help me as well as others that may be interested in these arms

Thanks again and best wishes,
Don

 

[kozzmo]

I had a Kuzma XL later upped to XL DC for many years with 2 arms, 4pt and ref 313, Lyra Atlas - great sounding TT .
I had to downsize the system a couple of years ago for a house move. I was thinking of ditching vinyl but I still had a couple of thousand LPs so I purchased a Technics SL1200G for vinyl duties.
It might sound like sacrilege but I dont miss the XL, in fact the1200 can sound more accurate in tone than the XL. The Technics produces a similar powerful sound, excellent staging and fantastic bass like the XL

I had the same Technics in my system on demo before I went the Stabi R. I felt like Technics was a table I could have easily "retired" to. It was super super solid and pitch stable and had a sound that was just right and dead on and the whole thing was a push button operation. however I did not like the tonearm. The vta adjustment and range stunk. Also felt like it was just a bit cool or thin in the midrange region. So I went with the Kuzma which as you pointed out may be a little bit colored to the warm side. But that technics would be on my short list in a "downsizing" situation.

 

[dctom]

The Technics is improved with a Funk Firm Achromat and better headshell. Also the Funk houdini with the right cartridge can be very helpful and can take the arm out of the equation to some extent. Also I do like the accuracy of tone you get with the direct drive it is amazing for the price. But I take your point and everyone has their preferences, the Kuzmas are powerful beasts I like them a lot. Looks like a great system you have there kozzmo.

 

[dctom]

Thank you so much for sharing your extensive thoughts and experiences with both of these Kuzma arms! It truly is great to hear from someone who has experienced both of these on the same table with the same cartridge, no less

I appreciate you taking the time to help me as well as others that may be interested in these arms

Thanks again and best wishes,
Don

No worries Don glad to be of some help.
Dave

 

[Keyplayer]

No I have not comapared the both Spindle Clamps. I only own the Ebony Clamps but I think about purchasing the screw Clamp because the Stabi R has this option (my former Player dont) and it is a smart way to flat a record if it is necessary.

BR

Christian

 

[kozzmo]

No I have not comapared the both Spindle Clamps. I only own the Ebony Clamps but I think about purchasing the screw Clamp because the Stabi R has this option (my former Player dont) and it is a smart way to flat a record if it is necessary.

BR

Christian

I am amazed how well the screw down clamp works with a washer to flatten records. Having used the Kuzma 4point on another table without such an option (screw down clamp) it seems like a must have. That arm does not like warps one bit.

 

[Davehg]

The Kuzma clamp and washer work much better than a similar system on my VPI Prime.

 

[Marcus]

That arm does not like warps one bit.

Why and how does that reflect on the sound in your system?

 

[kozzmo]

Why and how does that reflect on the sound in your system?

Not sure how it actually impacts the sound but the 4point arm does not track warps well at all. The VTF varies greatly depending where the stylus is in relation to the pivot, this is probably the biggest drawback of this arm...when riding a warp the cartridge sees less VTF at the top of it....so as far as wether or not it effects the sound??? I do know it has an impact on the tracking of the arm, the mechanical aspect of it....it works as it should with a flat record.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Not sure how it actually impacts the sound but the 4point arm does not track warps well at all. The VTF varies greatly depending where the stylus is in relation to the pivot, this is probably the biggest drawback of this arm...when riding a warp the cartridge sees less VTF at the top of it....so as far as wether or not it effects the sound??? I do know it has an impact on the tracking of the arm, the mechanical aspect of it....it works as it should with a flat record.

I haven't had this problem with my 4Point 11" on some warped records I have regarding poor / mis tracking nor any difference to the sound whether the record is warped or not !

 

[kozzmo]

I haven't had this problem with my 4Point 11" on some warped records I have regarding poor / mis tracking nor any difference to the sound whether the record is warped or not !

for me its a confidence thing....I had an SME V with dynamic VTF and there was zero bounce the cartridge with a warp.....with the 4p9 the cartridge dances all over the place but not necessarily mistracking....I just don't have confidence in the way that looks....however the 4p9 tracks better than the V regardless of a warp or no....but that cartridge sure can move around a bunch....That clamp gives the cartridge/arm a nice flat surface to navigate and my mind a little rest...

 

[Tangram]

Not sure how it actually impacts the sound but the 4point arm does not track warps well at all. The VTF varies greatly depending where the stylus is in relation to the pivot, this is probably the biggest drawback of this arm...when riding a warp the cartridge sees less VTF at the top of it....so as far as wether or not it effects the sound??? I do know it has an impact on the tracking of the arm, the mechanical aspect of it....it works as it should with a flat record.

I wonder if the two inches of extra length help the 4Point 11 track better than the 4Point 9. My 4Point 11 cruises over warps that caused an epileptic fit with my previous arm, a Graham 2.2 with 10” wand.

 

[analogsa]

. A piano chord can cut like a knife on a Garrard...a little less so on the Kuzma. What I don't hear with the Kuzma is fatigue so far I can just listen


View attachment 123600

What is the plinth on the Garrard? Material? Construction?

 

[kozzmo]

I wonder if the two inches of extra length help the 4Point 11 track better than the 4Point 9. My 4Point 11 cruises over warps that caused an epileptic fit with my previous arm, a Graham 2.2 with 10” wand.

the arm tracks them it just looks like the cartridge is all over the place....

 

[mtemur]

however the 4p9 tracks better than the V regardless of a warp or no....but that cartridge sure can move around a bunch..

How do you know 4P9 tracks better than SME V?

 

[kozzmo]

How do you know 4P9 tracks better than SME V?

There's that one tone poet reissue that was causing everyone problems with skipping. With 3 different cartridges on the sme v I got skipping too. When I put the 4p9 on the table it just sailed straight through the same lp with zero issues. I will say this was the only noticeable tracking issue I had with the sme. May have been something about the cartridge match too. But I did try 3.

 

[kozzmo]

What is the plinth on the Garrard? Material? Construction?

I've used birch plywood and slate. Slate is what I using as of late.

 

[mtemur]

There's that one tone poet reissue that was causing everyone problems with skipping. With 3 different cartridges on the sme v I got skipping too. When I put the 4p9 on the table it just sailed straight through the same lp with zero issues. I will say this was the only noticeable tracking issue I had with the sme. May have been something about the cartridge match too. But I did try 3.

Thank you.

 

[kozzmo]

How do you know 4P9 tracks better than SME V?

I will also say there is something about the 4p9 that sounds extremely "right". I am a big fan of the sme v but when I put in the 4p9 I noticed immediately and sense of total control, like the arm and stylus were perfectly in the groove. It's a hard thing to verbalize but it sounded very right, solid and focused in a way no other arm I've heard does. Like there was something being removed and what was left was more pure.

 

[analogsa]

I've used birch plywood and slate. Slate is what I using as of late.

IME and obviously according to my taste it is the slate and not the Garrard that is responsible for:

"The Garrard can overwhelm sometimes with certain records and get fatiguing and slightly harsh, too in your face and too ruthless with poor recordings"

A Garrard on wood sounds nothing like the above.