Spectral SDR 4000 SL

[Rupunzell]

Bernice, what is the relationship between signal to noise and dac step resolution? I ask because they are both measured in -dB.

Step resolution is the "size" per DAC step, example if a DAC is claimed to have 16 bits, that would be 2^16 or 65536 steps. If the reference voltage is 10 volts, each step would be 10/65536 = 0.000152 volts per step.

Signal to noise: using that 10 volt reference, shutting off the output from the Device Under Test and measuring the noise output over a specified bandwidth.

db is another way of expressing ratios based on a Log curve. 20*Log x

Example for step resolution, 16 bits = 65536 = 96.3db

Example for Signal to Noise, 10 volt reference, measured voltage limited by a specified bandwidth of 1uV = 1,000,000 to 1 ratio = 120 db.
The larger the bandwidth, the more noise will be measured, smaller the bandwidth lower noise will be measured.

Over sampling does not increase the amount of information contained in the original data, these are calculated steps between the original data to reduce filter requirements. There are many other factors involved with conversion accuracy like step settling time, timing per step (jitter) and more.

The job of the DAC filter is "connect the dots" resulting in the re-constructed analog signal. Sound simple, but that actual event is very complex.

The entire process produces distortions that are very different than analog systems which is why old audio industry measurement standards do not show the problems with digital conversions.

 

[ack]

SDR 4000SL Premiere at Goodwin's High End

I could only make the last hour of today's seminar with Rick Fryer, but at least I read the online bulletin on this player to catch up. Mr. Fryer comes across as an exceedingly intelligent individual with a relentless obsession for quality, and this shows yet again in this latest product - I would just point you to the bulletin which describes the lengths they've gone to come up with an extremely high quality custom transport and interface to the DAC. For starters, due to its uniqueness and rareness, each unit will have a mirror transport ready at the factory, should you need it in the next few decades.

It is always humbling to meet someone with a reserved demeanor who comes across as much more intelligent and rounded than your own self! I think it would suffice to say that if my 7-year-old was impressed with the talk - yes, I brought him with me, and really glad I did - then what else can I say... I always connect with people whose first claim is, "We can't bring you the orchestra here, but we hope to bring the same emotions you feel in the concert hall".

Back to the player... There was a claim on some site by Charles Hansen of Ayre that the previous VRDS transport variety cost Spectral and dCS $3000; this was confirmed today, and although I don't know what the new transport costs, my guess is much more than that. Unfortunately, the music demo was a short 15 minutes, but first impressions were positive (I particularly enjoyed the dynamic headroom and contrasts). Speakers were the unfamiliar Rockport Altair II, so I can't paint an accurate picture of the player - perhaps some time in the near future...

Upgrades from the previous 4000s are going to be expensive, it was claimed - sounds like you are better off buying the new player. And finally, yes there will be a new phono preamp and I am already on the list Just don't ask "when"

I am hoping Bernice can (and is authorized to) offer more technical details on this player and the phono...

EDIT: the phono preamp will be optimized for use with the 30SS Series 2 preamp... Again, no details on that yet.

 

[1rsw]

Thank you for the report Ack. As always, much appreciated.

 

[lydon]

Hi Ack,
Not too many moons ago you were of the opinion that the SDR-4000SL CD Processor was a dead end product in the light of the emergence of the long awaited SDR-5000 DAC. Are you still sticking to your guns or has this experience at Goodwins changed your good opinion of this unit? Great report BTW!

 

[docvale]

So, I skipped the Spectral demo in NYC, as I considered the concert of Sting a better investment of my time

Anyway, I have an impressive memory about the performance of the 4000Pro, 4 years ago. In that setting, I preferred its performance with normal CDs over the one of the about-to-be-released first generation of dCS Scarlatti stack
Despite I couldn't do a comparison RedBook on Spectral vs SACD on dCS, I am aware that over 99% of my digital music is RedBook.
I'm writing these words to take the chance to introduce my "philosophy" in the question that has been just addressed to Ack.
Despite catching, I doubt that the quest till the highest frequency rate really pays back. How much of the HiRez files are natively HiRez? How many of those are 24/192, how many DSD?
Notwithstanding, the nature of the 4000SL leaves some perplexity in me: honestly, I got addicted with computer based music reproduction! It's so tremendously comfortable that I can stream whatever I want, without moving from my sofa... I don't even need to interact with a computer, as I control my playlist through the iPhone.
So, it's not being a CD-only player that I don't like, but the lack of digital inputs. I understand that it would have compromised certain strategy in the project of this player, but I'm still convinced that, in my dream system, I would introduce a DAC (or player with DAC capabilities), connected to my Mac and driven by an iPad: simple in concept, comfortable in use*


* I truly enjoy the ritual of spinning vinyls... I don't feel the same with CDs

 

[microstrip]

While we are waiting for the opinions from WTB members about the sound of the SDR 4000SL (we all know that WBF members learned how to avoid expectation bias, we can rely on their opinions) we can read the opinion about CD players versus music servers of the owner of Absolute Sounds UK:

http://www.hificlube.net/Sections/Details.aspx?articleID=23571&sectionID=4

The interview was given to JVH of hificlube.net, a portuguese high-end site.

 

[docvale]

... we can read the opinion about CD players versus music servers of the owner of Absolute Sounds UK ...

This guy mostly criticized the actual quality of the HD file market. I guess that lots of people could agree with him. He also criticized the artistic content of this files (which, sometimes, are more samples or end-stage audiophile stuff rather than "real" music), and I couldn't agree more.

The point against "music servers" is a little more cryptic: he said they didn't manage to find a music server that is good enough for a real hiend system. If he's speaking about all-in-one machines (Olive, Sooloos - without an external DAC -, etc etc) it could be probably true, but I think that connecting a computer to a DAC should be neither better nor worse than feeding the DAC with a traditional CD-transport.
IMHO, it's not a matter of quality, just the feeling of comfort

 

[ack]

Hi Ack,
Not too many moons ago you were of the opinion that the SDR-4000SL CD Processor was a dead end product in the light of the emergence of the long awaited SDR-5000 DAC. Are you still sticking to your guns or has this experience at Goodwins changed your good opinion of this unit? Great report BTW!

Yes I have not changed my opinion; the market needs are much different than what Spectral are building, IMO - need the USB input. But the argument to build the best CD player also has solid basis. This is not a product for me and I'll wait for their hi-Rez DAC.

 

[ack]

So, it's not being a CD-only player that I don't like, but the lack of digital inputs.

Yes, exactly

 

[mullard88]

I played around with the Magico Qpods on the newest Spectral cd player last week and for me, the Qpods are definitely needed to bring out the best in this Spectral cd player. For me, the best is to use 4 Qpods directly under the chasis of the Spectral cd player. It brings much improvements in killing the digital edginess and amazingly brings clarity to what is at the back of the soundstage. I have a good mind to try 5 Qpods on tlhe Spectral cd player next time.

 

[LL21]

Any more feedback on this player? Very curious as to anyone who owns one or has even heard one. particularly the most recent SL version. Thanks!

 

[ack]

The SL is untouchable by the dCS, MSB and Berkeley I have heard. You'd be very lucky to get one; I think your jaw will drop. I am actually waiting for their DAC instead.

 

[lolo77]

Any more feedback on this player? Very curious as to anyone who owns one or has even heard one. particularly the most recent SL version. Thanks!

last month, I've gone in belgium for one day on the Noir & blanc show.
only 10 rooms but some good listening.

The best for me was the room of Benelux distributor of Audiopphysic and Spectral .
they presented a set up with a pair of Virgo25+ , a DMA260 amp + DMC 30SS and the SDR 4000SL as player.
really really wonderfull lsitening.
After half an hour with nice titles, I've discussed with the demonstrator and for him it's the best player in the world actually (in off)
For your information they distribute also DCS
So Spectral is a very expensive player, but less than a trilogy DCS… for better results

up to you

 

[LL21]

Thanks for the feedback! intriguing!

 

[nirodha]

The SL is untouchable by the dCS, MSB and Berkeley I have heard. You'd be very lucky to get one; I think your jaw will drop. I am actually waiting for their DAC instead.

The new dCS stack is unbeatable...sorry...but I would gladly trade in my old dCS Elgar Plus / Verdi for the Spectral haha. That is also no contest.

 

[lolo77]

In my opinion and after a recent listening in Paris I think an esoteric stack with its rubidium clock is superior to a DCS stack, much more analogic.
Top range of EMM and Playback Design make better impression than DCS… Sorry.
And Spectral listening was fabulous. much better versus an Audrender + DCS Dac on the same spectral gear + Audiophysic

DCS discussion with owners of the brand looks like to those with Mc Intosh owners. "Nothing could beat mine"
In fact we see the power and the weight of the brand
not the superiority of the musicality… only my advice, sorry

But I think Spectral Player is a real option for very high end
even if it's possible to obtain very good results with a Mac, itunes+PureMusic or amarra , a good DAC like MSB, EMM DAC2x, external clocks such has Antelope

 

[docvale]

The SL is untouchable by the dCS, MSB and Berkeley I have heard. You'd be very lucky to get one; I think your jaw will drop. I am actually waiting for their DAC instead.

Is there gonna be a DAC, indeed?

 

[A.wayne]

And the beat goes on .....

 

[ack]

Is there gonna be a DAC, indeed?

Doctors tell me I have a long time to live... little do they know...

 

[nirodha]

Well...in the end this also is a matter of taste. I think "musicality" is a very subjective term, as is the superiority of analogue over digital. I heard the Spectral and the dCS stack. The owner of the best high-end shop in the Netherlands, who is a dealer of both brands and a record producer, was also blown away by the dCS stack. It was the closest to "recreating the recording venue acoustics". It was like listening to the master tape. But again...I would be VERY happy with both machines
And I must admit that I have not heard the EMM or Playback Design.