Sound Galleries SGM 2015

Sep 17, 2015
286
0
0
Monaco
#23
I would like to let SGM users and auditioners know that post the Munich event we did two upgrades that nicely improved the sound quality even further. The first is a new operating system build with even less Windows components than the build used in Munich. The second upgrade is a rather labor intensive upgrade of the internal wiring which we did not have time to do before Munich. These upgrades have been fitted on all SGM's
 
Jan 20, 2013
346
4
18
London, UK
#24
I disagree with that, since I spent quite some time with both before you came in, and you barely heard the T+A (correct me if I am wrong but you left in about two mins when we put it back in, you did spend some time with the Lampi, beer and pizza though). The t+a was better on electronic bass, but when playing symphonies it was no match on the separation and orchestral dynamics to the Lampi with the 242
Hi Bonzo,
Did you and Bill get the chance to use different modulators to establish a preference? What I found so far is that the various modulators sound different with different source resolution. However, I settled on the DSD7-256fs as a good fit and forget modulator in my system after finding the ADMS7 to be too spacious and losing attack/density.

The GG with KR242 must be sounding mighty fine to beat the DAC8. Would have liked to have been there.

Blue58
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
6,298
22
38
E. England
#25
IMHO, there was nothing in the comparison between the GG and T&A that was "no contest".
I went into the demo fully expecting the T&A to be trounced on where the GG is strongest and was pleasantly surprised to find in the areas that T&A was behind on, it was not that far behind
But hey, we all hear things differently, and as someone who needs a lot of dynamics on flatly recorded material, from what I've heard on both dac's through the SGM, and the SGM in two locations, the SGM/T&A fits my listening biases and library
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
8,879
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London
#26
IMHO, there was nothing in the comparison between the GG and T&A that was "no contest".
I went into the demo fully expecting the T&A to be trounced on where the GG is strongest and was pleasantly surprised to find in the areas that T&A was behind on, it was not that far behind
But hey, we all hear things differently, and as someone who needs a lot of dynamics on flatly recorded material, from what I've heard on both dac's through the SGM, and the SGM in two locations, the SGM/T&A fits my listening biases and library
I think my point was that you didn't listen.
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
8,879
59
48
London
#27
Hi Bonzo,
Did you and Bill get the chance to use different modulators to establish a preference? What I found so far is that the various modulators sound different with different source resolution. However, I settled on the DSD7-256fs as a good fit and forget modulator in my system after finding the ADMS7 to be too spacious and losing attack/density.

The GG with KR242 must be sounding mighty fine to beat the DAC8. Would have liked to have been there.

Blue58
No. I am a bit off digital and streaming at the moment. Currently exploring analog and SS amps for restored apogees. If anything i would like to take a step back from GG to my previous Big 7 and redirect the small amount elsewhere.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
6,298
22
38
E. England
#28
I listened just fine Ked but feel free to contend that I didn't
We heard your Saint Saens piece on both dac's
We disagree on the difference in quality of playback between the two and their closeness in ultimate reckoning
I find it endlessly fascinating that these demos always have to have an absolutist outcome
I loved the GG and in tone/density/fleshed out terms it beat the T&A
But not by much
Otoh I felt the T&A had the edge on noise floor, dynamics and verve/excitement
I'm planning on a return engagement with both, and I'll spend a longer period a.b'g the two dacs
But I remain of the opinion that anyone with a collection that stretches beyond acoustic instruments into dance, electronic, dub, progressive, fusion etc would be superbly served by the SGM/T&A and it's ghostly quiet, superbly dynamic sound
If you restrict yourself to voice, classical, small scale jazz, the GG may well be the ticket
 
Last edited:

wisnon

Active Member
Dec 12, 2011
2,494
7
38
#29
Spirit,

Given you taste, you may be better served by the Atlantic DSD only dac, 512 capable. It uses the Pentodes in triode mode and has more extended highs that the DHTs in the GG. Cost is €3,900 for SE. Luaksz says he will do a full Atlantic range with 3 cjhoices of tubes (recessed so that can fit in racks) balanced and SE, with RSR PCM and DSD256 (maybe 512 later) and DSD only 512 (chipless).

I want to hear one ASAP. Feedback on Audiocircle seems outstanding!
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=143893.0
and
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=144488.0
 

spiritofmusic

Member Sponsor
Jun 13, 2013
6,298
22
38
E. England
#30
Wisnon
One, would I use this dac only after SGM does it's thing at 512/HQ (ie all the time LOL)
How does this dac fit into the Lampi Grand Scheme Of Things
Ie compared to GG, B7, Lite etc?
 

wisnon

Active Member
Dec 12, 2011
2,494
7
38
#31
Wisnon
One, would I use this dac only after SGM does it's thing at 512/HQ (ie all the time LOL)
How does this dac fit into the Lampi Grand Scheme Of Things
Ie compared to GG, B7, Lite etc?
Yes, the DSD only version is essentially made for SGM or anything else capable of delivering up to 512 (chipless engine). Of course it does DSD54/128 and 256 as well....so at those rates you open up more front end options.

It is a separate line from the DHTs, ie Big7, Lite 7 and GG.

No host of tube rolling options though, but they apparently have more extended highs. I would love to hear one myself andf will be pushing to hear a demo ASAP...if possible. The other ATLANTICs will have R2R engine with both PCM and DSD256 supported. The tubes will be 80% recessed in the future to allow shelf stacking

Its possible as an option to have RSR pcm and dsds AND as well the chipless DSD512 in addition.
 

wisnon

Active Member
Dec 12, 2011
2,494
7
38
#32
I listened just fine Ked but feel free to contend that I didn't
We heard your Saint Saens piece on both dac's
We disagree on the difference in quality of playback between the two and their closeness in ultimate reckoning
I find it endlessly fascinating that these demos always have to have an absolutist outcome
I loved the GG and in tone/density/fleshed out terms it beat the T&A
But not by much
Otoh I felt the T&A had the edge on noise floor, dynamics and verve/excitement
I'm planning on a return engagement with both, and I'll spend a longer period a.b'g the two dacs
But I remain of the opinion that anyone with a collection that stretches beyond acoustic instruments into dance, electronic, dub, progressive, fusion etc would be superbly served by the SGM/T&A and it's ghostly quiet, superbly dynamic sound
If you restrict yourself to voice, classical, small scale jazz, the GG may well be the ticket
Just to be clear...were you comparing a GG at 256 with the Dac8 at 512? if so, is that a totally valid comparison?
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
8,879
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48
London
#33
Just to be clear...were you comparing a GG at 256 with the Dac8 at 512? if so, is that a totally valid comparison?
There was no comparison, is my point. He talked, drank beer, ate pizza, and left within 2 -3 mins of us starting to play T+A because he had to see a patient. He had already decided on the T+A even before he came over. I prefer GG PCM through Aries over SGM through T+A 512. Next people will be trying to beat Vinyl and R2R by upsampling. DSD is good when recordings are good. Channel Classics DSD is great, and I am sure Challenge Classics is as well. Maybe, if you can master your filters. Otherwise filters will add their own colourations, and you can hear it. I told Bill to check that immediately, and he confirmed.
 

spiritofmusic

Member Sponsor
Jun 13, 2013
6,298
22
38
E. England
#34
I'm afraid Ked is incorrect
He omits to mention we listened to Saint Saens through both dacs and the GG with two sets of tubes
He's also incorrect in saying I had a bias towards the T&A. In fact I came to the demo with over a year of Bill's positives for his GG embedded in my head and a genuine desire to really prefer the GG
But the demo just didn't work out that way
I will agree with Ked that I need to spend more time with both
But I had enough time to make reasonable opinions
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
8,879
59
48
London
#35
I'm afraid Ked is incorrect
He omits to mention we listened to Saint Saens through both dacs and the GG with two sets of tubes
He's also incorrect in saying I had a bias towards the T&A. In fact I came to the demo with over a year of Bill's positives for his GG embedded in my head and a genuine desire to really prefer the GG
But the demo just didn't work out that way
I will agree with Ked that I need to spend more time with both
But I had enough time to make reasonable opinions
How long did you spend listening to saint Saens? I even asked you to wait on your way out. It barely started. I agree you spent some time on the GG
 
Last edited:
Dec 6, 2010
172
0
0
FLORIDA
#36
Guys I'm sure glad I'm extremely satisfied with my current music server/DAC arrangement after reeding this thread. :)
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
6,298
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38
E. England
#37
Wisnon
I agree the comparison was not totally fair
Bill may be upgrading GG to 512 and then a more level playing field
 

marslo

Member Sponsor
May 2, 2014
495
4
18
Poland
#38
You have to listen to believe :)
I scheduled an audition in Sound Galleries in the second week of September of SGMS with Lampi DSD 512 capable and T+A if available.
As already mentioned I like native files be it DSD or PCM hires fed from Aurender W20 to my Big 7 SE or La Fontaine DAC but I am open to the new experience of DSD512 world.
 

wisnon

Active Member
Dec 12, 2011
2,494
7
38
#39
Wisnon
I agree the comparison was not totally fair
Bill may be upgrading GG to 512 and then a more level playing field
Yes, Bill told me already.

Given your taste, the much cheaper Atlantic DSD512 made specially for the SGM may indeed be a better fit. See what Gopher says here:

Gopher
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Re: New Lampizator Atlantic DAC

« Reply #24 on: 31 Jul 2016, 09:58 pm »


Quote

No. Tube rolling isn't something we want to bring to the Atlantic at this time. A part of its allure is it voiced the way Lukasz desires from day one and there is no need to research or hunt for tubes in the pursuit of upgrading.

It is the type of tube dac that will not intimidate those who would typically go for solid state and will reward them greatly for stepping outside of their comfort zone.


http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=143893.20
 

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