Sme 3012 R

I know this old arm is good but I don’t know why David,Rockitman,Tang,Ron,Mike
Use or will use having top tonearm like Sat,EliteAxiom,Black Beauty,Durand

Why 3012 is so special?
I never had and I don’t understand
Only to know for my curiosity
Regards
Gian

 

@mtemur , @PeterA

This reads like an interesting arm-chair theoretical vs hands-on experienced discussion. Thank you Peter for the excellent photography.

Lots of ways to skin a catfish.
I like the relative ease of use and safety factors of DDK's jig used with the 3012R. For me the results I get tell the tale.

I am glad you like the photographs, Tim. They do tell the story, as do the listening results.

From our WBF co-owner Ron Resnick:

"I have said many, many times that I consider to be David a extremely talented and experienced turntable designer and vinyl playback expert. I have said many times that I consider him to be literally the world's leading expert on the SME 3012R tone arm. David is a fantastic and world class analogue playback set up expert."

David Karmeli, DDK, does indeed know a lot about the SME 3012R tonearm and how to set it up. He is an expert in this area. This is the jig and protractor that he sent me after I bought two New Old Stock 3012R arms from him. He taught me how to use the devices when I visited him. I now have three of these arms on my turntable and can attest to the quality of this jig and protractor.

 

I must dig out the jig, have it in a drawer together with a extra headshell and protractor David sent me, never learned to use it. Protractor did not work for me because my LT arm with silicone trough takes up to much space, the SME cardboard one that came with the arm works fine for my needs, i rarely change cartridges.

 

The black ring around the spindle hole makes it look like there is a slop, but I assure you there is none.



Yes, there’s a portion of the hedgehog that is flat, but it sits so far above the surface of the protractor that is not that easy to align. The jig is much more accurate for this.



I can see this as a concern, but there was always a risk handling a cartridge. I am much more nervous with the cartridge attached to the tone arm when doing alignment. This is why using this jig is so safe.



How would you recommend aligning a cartridge where you can barely see the cantilever or stylus because it’s not exposed like the Colibrí and some others? An SPU is quite difficult, and the Neumann was near impossible without the jig. Even my Airtight was difficult on the MINT protractor to get a loop close enough to see if the stylist was on the line.

You can try aligning “ hidden “ cantilever using short focal length monocular . Can even see stylus clearly

 

You can try aligning “ hidden “ cantilever using short focal length monocular . Can even see stylus clearly

Great idea. Does it work on a Neumann? At that angle, can you see the stylus hitting the null point? I would think it is hard to see the markings on the protractor.

 

eye balling stylus to position it a the centre of the fairly big dot is highly inaccurate as far as I know & the monocular can clearly see the tip of the stylus . Use DDK gauge , counter check with the monocular, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s not centred at all. I used to set up using original SME 3012R protractor& eyeball it with a handheld scope 10x. I thought it was perfect centre until I used a short focal length monocular to counter check . Try it out .

 

Don’t have Neumann but I don’t see why not. If handheld scope can be used to set up Neumann, short focal length monocular . Google specwell monocular 10x20 with a diopter to allow monocular to focus at a shorter distance

 

U can actually place the scope a few inches away if there is no hindrance in placing the camera stand where the monocular is attached . At least 20x magnification. Few hundreds usd . Worth trying

 

Drill a hole in the protractor with the smallest possible drillbit set diamond there.
Mostly start sets at 0.6mm

For the angle, the only thing that helps is to rely on the housing or headshell edge for a right angle. To extend the housing edges, attach pencil leads with scotch tape. The longer the lead, the more accurate the angle. Thats my way to install e.g decca or ikeda

 

I wish this jig to be available for purchase.

SME 3012R is a surprisingly good tonearm paired with high quality cartridges deserves accurate adjustments.

 

I wish this jig to be available for purchase.

SME 3012R is a surprisingly good tonearm paired with high quality cartridges deserves accurate adjustments.

If you want something accurate why would you want this jig? A WallyTractor is a simple protractor that’ll be much more accurate.

 

U can actually place the scope a few inches away if there is no hindrance in placing the camera stand where the monocular is attached . At least 20x magnification. Few hundreds usd . Worth trying

I used to do that and rest the stylus on a first-surface mirror to check azimuth. If you see two contilevers, the actual cantilever and a reflected cantilever, it is tilted to one side.

 

I used to do that and rest the stylus on a first-surface mirror to check azimuth. If you see two contilevers, the actual cantilever and a reflected cantilever, it is tilted to one side.

That’s why I like MintLP protractor & bought 1 for every tonearm that I ever have . It cater for parallax error with double engraved glasses& the line is so fine with the dot barely visible to naked eyes. However the glasses abit thick. My friend even send Yip thinner glasses equivalent to 180g LP. Unfortunately out of biz now

 

I am glad you like the photographs, Tim. They do tell the story, as do the listening results.

From our WBF co-owner Ron Resnick:

"I have said many, many times that I consider to be David a extremely talented and experienced turntable designer and vinyl playback expert. I have said many times that I consider him to be literally the world's leading expert on the SME 3012R tone arm. David is a fantastic and world class analogue playback set up expert."

David Karmeli, DDK, does indeed know a lot about the SME 3012R tonearm and how to set it up. He is an expert in this area. This is the jig and protractor that he sent me after I bought two New Old Stock 3012R arms from him. He taught me how to use the devices when I visited him. I now have three of these arms on my turntable and can attest to the quality of this jig and protractor.

Peter,
Thanks for the photos. Can you explain us what kind of "expertise" is needed to set up an SME 3012R tonearm? It is a fixed geometry extremely logical and simple arm to set up - the same way of tens of thousands of SME tonearms spread around the world that people have been using for many decades.

 

Peter,
Thanks for the photos. Can you explain us what kind of "expertise" is needed to set up an SME 3012R tonearm? It is a fixed geometry extremely logical and simple arm to set up - the same way of tens of thousands of SME tonearms spread around the world that people have been using for many decades.

I agree that it is a very popular arm. And for a good reason. Just look at how long this thread is. There’s a difference between simply setting something up and optimizing its performance, don’t you think?

I agree that the arm is very logical and easy to install to get sound. It is also quite easy to place speakers in a room to get sound. But I am interested in learning to get better sound. Just as I learned something from Jim Smith about methodical speaker set up by listening and specific techniques to improve the sound, I learned from David Karmeli how to do the same with a tone arm, particularly VTA and VTF. I have set up this 3012R tone arm for two friends because they were not confident enough to do it themselves. And they were grateful. Using what I had learned from DDK, I was able to improve the sound of their vinyl set ups. They installed the arms themselves, but I fine-tune them based on what I had learned. They were happy with the results.

The jig and protractor are improvements over what is supplied by SME. I was taught how to use them by someone who has much more knowledge and experience than I have and it helped. David also helped me improve the sound of my system by refining the speaker set up that Jim Smith had taught me for a more natural sound.

Didn’t you contact David Karmeli for advice? Do you really think we can not learn something from others who have superior knowledge and experience to what we have? Even with such a wonderful tone arm, set up is not that simple if your goal is to optimize the sound of your vinyl source.

I quoted @Ron Resnick for a reason. I agree with him that David knows an awful lot about this tone arm and vinyl in general. Even Ron, who is an industry expert and dealer himself has this opinion about David Karmeli.

 

I agree that it is a very popular arm. And for a good reason. Just look at how long this thread is. There’s a difference between simply setting something up and optimizing its performance, don’t you think?

I agree that the arm is very logical and easy to install to get sound. It is also quite easy to place speakers in a room to get sound. But I am interested in learning to get better sound. Just as I learned something from Jim Smith about methodical speaker set up by listening and specific techniques to improve the sound, I learned from David Karmeli how to do the same with a tone arm, particularly VTA and VTF. I have set up this 3012R tone arm for two friends because they were not confident enough to do it themselves. And they were grateful. Using what I had learned from DDK, I was able to improve the sound of their vinyl set ups. They installed the arms themselves, but I fine-tune them based on what I had learned. They were happy with the results.

The jig and protractor are improvements over what is supplied by SME. I was taught how to use them by someone who has much more knowledge and experience than I have and it helped. David also helped me improve the sound of my system by refining the speaker set up that Jim Smith had taught me for a more natural sound.

Didn’t you contact David Karmeli for advice? Do you really think we can not learn something from others who have superior knowledge and experience to what we have? Even with such a wonderful tone arm, set up is not that simple if your goal is to optimize the sound of your vinyl source.

I quoted @Ron Resnick for a reason. I agree with him that David knows an awful lot about this tone arm and vinyl in general. Even Ron, who is an industry expert and dealer himself has this opinion about David Karmeli.

Thanks for writing a lnog post to avoid my simple and direct question. I asked for the "expertise" on setting a simple tonearm, you move the subject to your favorite mentor and try mixing a complex subject (speaker positioning) and bring Jim Smith (a real expert IMO) and Ron to this question.

Nice to learn that you consider yourself now an "expert" in SME3012R set up - a pity that contrary to Jim Smith and others you never share the complete details, claiming you don't want to or are not allowed to do it. I am always happy to learn from others, although we sometimes disagree. At the present moment, my opinions on vinyl setting up align with the very well documented views of Michael Fremer - yes, I learned a lot from him.

BTW, as explained by other members the jig and protractor you are using are not improvements in accuracy over what is supplied by SME. And anyone being able to understand basic geometry and errors can see why a two point protactor is more accurate that a single point one. IMO, YMMV.

 

I agree with him that David knows an awful lot about this tone arm and vinyl in general.

I have never seen David write anything on vinyl and recordings apart from that he did not like thick vinyl. He never joined recording discussions on Tang’s thread or any either, and did not introduce him to recordings/vinyl/performances. I distinctly remember him recording a Hungaraton cello Schnittke because that was the only one

 

Dear @PeterA,

I highly doubt that the aim of the jig you’re using is true precision. In order to align a cartridge precisely with these kinds of indirect alignment devices—simply “ jigs”—everything must be perfect: precisely set, aligned, and accurately machined. But that’s almost never the case. These tools are designed for convenience, not for precision.

I haven’t used the specific one you have, but there’s no need to swim in every sea to know you’ll get wet when you jump in. I’ve used the Graham jig, the incredibly well-made Thales jig, and of course the ubiquitous Technics jig, which is similar. All of these are indirect alignment tools, and none can offer the level of precision that direct alignment methods provide. A two-point protractor or an arc protractor allows for direct alignment, where you can observe the stylus following the arc and make adjustments with the cartridge mounted in the headshell and the headshell mounted on the tonearm.

You can certainly prefer the convenience of jigs over the precision of direct methods—but that’s just the reality of it.

I don’t know about DDK’s level of knowledge, but I doubt it if he presented this jig as a precision alignment tool. Repeatedly referencing him in your posts doesn’t help to convince me otherwise.

 

Thanks for writing a lnog post to avoid my simple and direct question. I asked for the "expertise" on setting a simple tonearm, you move the subject to your favorite mentor and try mixing a complex subject (speaker positioning) and bring Jim Smith (a real expert IMO) and Ron to this question.

Nice to learn that you consider yourself now an "expert" in SME3012R set up - a pity that contrary to Jim Smith and others you never share the complete details, claiming you don't want to or are not allowed to do it. I am always happy to learn from others, although we sometimes disagree. At the present moment, my opinions on vinyl setting up align with the very well documented views of Michael Fremer - yes, I learned a lot from him.

BTW, as explained by other members the jig and protractor you are using are not improvements in accuracy over what is supplied by SME. And anyone being able to understand basic geometry and errors can see why a two point protactor is more accurate that a single point one. IMO, YMMV.

What?
This is a two point protractor. Did you see the photo? And I answered about optimizing set up not just installing an arm. You seem to want to argue.

 

I have never seen David write anything on vinyl and recordings apart from that he did not like thick vinyl. He never joined recording discussions on Tang’s thread or any either, and did not introduce him to recordings/vinyl/performances. I distinctly remember him recording a Hungaraton cello Schnittke because that was the only one

He shares what he wants, when and with whom.

 

I use SmarTractor UNI DIN and it is easy and very precise