Shunyata Grounding System

treitz3

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Yeah, it's got virtually nothing to do with the wiring in your home....
Hello, Puma Cat and good evening to you, sir. With all due respect.....how do you figure this?

Would you be so kind as to explain?

Tom
 

Puma Cat

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Feb 20, 2011
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The age of wiring in a home has nothing to do with it's ability to carry or, conversely, mitigate, chassis ground plane noise or signal ground plane noise. Also, unless the wiring in the home (inside walls, etc,), is fully shielded by being run inside aluminum conduit, the AC wiring in a home will still carry RFI and EMI.

Moreover, the the largest contributor of noise in a stereo system comes from the full-wave bridge rectifiers in the of the power supplies of the components themselves. Read this:
https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/why-power-cables-make-a-difference/

Folks interested in the Altaira system should read the comprehenvise support literature at Shunyata's web site:
https://shunyata.com/download/22720/
https://shunyata.com/download/22713/

Video on the Altaira system is here:

Robert Harley's full review in TAS is linked here (though he gets some of the terminology incorrect; it's not "chassis noise", it's "chassis ground-plane noise"):
https://shunyata.com/download/23094/?tmstv=1670353886
 

treitz3

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Without reading some of your links.....(yet)

I am planning on a completely separate building, with it's own meter and no lighting associated with said building......with the exception of a powder room for guests that will be turned off when listening.

That said, I am VERY interested in the Altarira and have been for quite some time. Please also understand that I haven't read a audio rag since I was around 10 years old, nor do I plan too.

Without getting into the resistance of the grounding rod(s) and all of that blah, blah, blah.....would this, in your opinion (or others) be more beneficial to the end result as to what hits your ears or would something else be more value oriented?

What say you? Thank you BTW, sir, for your answer above. That is much appreciated.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

BTW, before ANYONE gets defensive about Shunyata (I know there are a lot of fans out there).....There are multiple paths to achieve the same goal. I am looking for the best....or at least the best that I can afford (within reason).

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have what most of you have mentioned. What I am looking for is the imaging aspect and spatial locationality cues that go well beyond the walls within the room. They already do but I am looking to improve this aspect. Audio rags never got me anywhere. Real world feedback, experience and listening have.

Again, what say you.....if you would be so kind as to answer?

Tom
 

Puma Cat

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Feb 20, 2011
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Without reading some of your links.....(yet)

I am planning on a completely separate building, with it's own meter and no lighting associated with said building......with the exception of a powder room for guests that will be turned off when listening.

That said, I am VERY interested in the Altarira and have been for quite some time. Please also understand that I haven't read a audio rag since I was around 10 years old, nor do I plan too.

Without getting into the resistance of the grounding rod(s) and all of that blah, blah, blah.....would this, in your opinion (or others) be more beneficial to the end result as to what hits your ears or would something else be more value oriented?

What say you? Thank you BTW, sir, for your answer above. That is much appreciated.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

BTW, before ANYONE gets defensive about Shunyata (I know there are a lot of fans out there).....There are multiple paths to achieve the same goal. I am looking for the best....or at least the best that I can afford (within reason).

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have what most of you have mentioned. What I am looking for is the imaging aspect and spatial locationality cues that go well beyond the walls within the room. They already do but I am looking to improve this aspect. Audio rags never got me anywhere. Real world feedback, experience and listening have.

Again, what say you.....if you would be so kind as to answer?

Tom
In my experience, implementing an Altaira ground-plane noise reduction system for a high-end audio system is foundational, along with quality power distribution (e.g. a Shunyata power distributor and power cables). I'd actually go down on the specification of the preamp, if need be, to free up funds for implementing an Altaira system. That's how important I consider it to be.
 
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treitz3

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Thank you for your response. Duly noted. As to not derail this thread, I will not comment any further for now.

Your response is greatly appreciated, sir.

Tom
 

Kingrex

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I am planning on a completely separate building, with it's own meter and no lighting associated with said building......with the exception of a powder room for guests that will be turned off when listening.

Tom
I see where you think your beating the system but your not. Where do you think that new meter ties in. It ties in at the power pole. And your getting all the noise from your neighbors and your own home at that connection. You do have a few feet more wire between you and yourself, but it not the right answer. If your going to say you want your own transforner, I would say why. What is some nebulous utility grade step down transformer doing for you. Not much.

Run a feeder from your house to a subpanel. Install a Torus and feed it from the subpanel. Feed the audio system from the Torus. Torus is a quality isolation transformer built for the purpose. Worlds better than some utility pole mount.

Feed your light and other stuf from the subpanel. You have a good level of isolation from that noise with the Torus. Not total and complete, but very good. Recording studio quality isolation.

The grounding in the Torus, subpanel and main panel are fairly critical. You want to do it right.

And dont go tbrowing ground rods in the yard to a bar behind the rack. Thats a recipe for disaster if lightining ever strikes earth near your house. You will be required to drop a new ground rod to support the subpanel. I would use a Ufer and turn a solid copper #4 out right below the new panel.

Thats a very high level design for an excellent power supply to any audio system or recording studio.
 

treitz3

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Ugh, here I am derailing a thread. Can we take this to another thread, please?

The building is already built. I just need to modify it. It already has it's own meter and the feed is from underground. It's completely separate from the house. FWIW, I have been reading/researching your posts for quite some time. Please, let's not derail this thread.

Tom
 

Ron Resnick

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I read Robert's review. If Robert likes the sonic effects of the Altaira system, then I think that's great.

But from his report I don't see what the Altaira is beyond a star ground/common grounding buss system, maybe with some passive components in the box.
 

Puma Cat

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I read Robert's review. If Robert likes the sonic effects of the Altaira system, then I think that's great.

But from his report I don't see what the Altaira is beyond a star ground/common grounding buss system, maybe with some passive components in the box.
Have you listened to one in your system, yet?

If not, you should, and then see if you want to go back to listening to your system without it.
 
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Ron Resnick

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Without getting into the resistance of the grounding rod(s) and all of that blah, blah, blah.....

I do not think that attention to resistance to ground (in ohms) should be trivialized. I think a low resistance to ground should be a primary objective of a proper electrical infrastructure.
 

DetroitVinylRob

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Calling Altaira a passive hub is deceptive and leaves most of us initially unfamiliar down a path of misconception about its functional attributes beyond a star ground hub configuration Imho. From what I understand, it is only passive in the sense of not directly disturbing the path of dynamic current flow from the mains source. But, of course, its function is anything but passive.
 
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Ron Resnick

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Calling Altaira a passive hub is deceptive and leaves most of us initially unfamiliar down a path of misconception about its functional attributes beyond a star ground hub configuration Imho. From what I understand, it is only passive in the sense of not directly disturbing the path of dynamic current flow from the mains source. But, of course, its function is anything but passive.

Are there active electronics in the boxes? Does the box get plugged into an AC wall outlet?
 

DetroitVinylRob

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Are there active electronics in the boxes? Does the box get plugged into an AC wall outlet?
No Ron, no AC connection as I’m sure you have come to notice. But the discriminating between passive/active components within the boxes is were I feel a need for some definition. The drains/filters in the boxes go beyond a location for a star ground point in effectiveness. Otherwise, no need for boxes and perhaps no need for Altaira. I believe this is THE one major aspect that discriminates Shunyata Research Altaira from other seemingly similar products. So I apologize for any confusion brought about by what my nonconventional view on what “active” might mean.
 
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Puma Cat

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No Ron, no AC connection as I’m sure you have come to notice. But the discriminating between passive/active components within the boxes is were I feel a need for some definition. The drains/filters in the boxes go beyond a location for a star ground point in effectiveness. Otherwise, no need for boxes and perhaps no need for Altaira. I believe this is THE one major aspect that discriminates Shunyata Research Altaira from other seemingly similar products. So I apologize for any confusion brought about by what my nonconventional view on what “active” might mean.
Bang on the money, Rob. The Altaira system is passive in that it is not powered. There''s no ON switch. Altaira's 7th terminal needs to be connected to the GP-NR terminal of a Shunyata or other power distributor that makes a proper connection to "chassis ground" or use Shunyata's wall receptacle adapter that provides a connection to earth ground of an AC mains wall receptacle, as I mentioned above.

Again, folks REALLY need to read all the background and Altaira system information from Shunyata Research before doing an installation/implementation; I can't emphasize this strongly enough.

I posted the links to those above. Those documents were prepared for important reasons, and folks need to read them.
 
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DetroitVinylRob

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These ideas ring true. I currently have two Denali V2s in my system and could not be happier with the results. What I noticed immediately was an increase in micro and macro dynamics , a greater sense of individual performers, and timbral articulation while at the same time, a more effortless presentation just as RH of TAS suggests. One Denali at the rack of source components on an adjacent wall and 6m from my loudspeakers, 4x field-coil power supplies, and mono-block amps on the front wall. I have daisychained the two ground posts of the Denali and chassis grounded all applicable components to each near by. In lieu of yet funding Altaira systems, this configuration recommended to me by Shunyata Research has offered some significant gains in the ground plane arena. I look forward to Altaira for more.
 

kennyb123

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Are there active electronics in the boxes? Does the box get plugged into an AC wall outlet?
Shunyata has been using its noise isolation chamber NIC technology for many years. This uses a ferroelectric material to remove noise on the AC. It’s my understanding that this technology is used in the Altaira boxes as well, except it’s tuned to address the noise found in the ground plane.

When it comes to noise reduction, passive solutions are often superior to active solutions as they don’t generate noise themselves and they don’t open up another pathway for noise to enter.
 

ssfas

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Bang on the money, Rob. The Altaira system is passive in that it is not powered. There''s no ON switch. Altaira's 7th terminal needs to be connected to the GP-NR terminal of a Shunyata or other power distributor that makes a proper connection to "chassis ground" or use Shunyata's wall receptacle adapter that provides a connection to earth ground of an AC mains wall receptacle, as I mentioned above.

Again, folks REALLY need to read all the background and Altaira system information from Shunyata Research before doing an installation/implementation; I can't emphasize this strongly enough.

I posted the links to those above. Those documents were prepared for important reasons, and folks need to read them.
The Shunyata grounding system looks like a copy of the Puritan Audio grounding system. The literature is much the same, Puritan's being a bit more to the point. I had a Shunyata conditioner and cables, I now have Puritan conditioner and cables, they take much less room, are just as good and a fraction of the price.

We make out own choices, but I found both sets of literature helpful.

I spoke to Mike Lester (Puritan) about the grounding system last week as I was thinking about using it. The problem is that there are three earths, ground, chassis and signal. The chassis and signal earths need to be dealt with separately.

In a nutshell:
- The best chassis ground is a connection to an earth rod, but with UK plugs providing a second route to earth can be fatal, hence the Groundmaster. You put in an earth ground rod and put the Groundmaster between the chassis earth on your conditioner and the cable from your ground rod. The Groundmaster blocks a second route to earth but provides an earth ground.
- If an earth ground connection terrifies you, or you live up an apartment block, the Puritan City is the alternative route to earth ground, sort of.
- The Route Master is a signal star earth, plain and simple.

Shunyata suggest using separate signal ground boxes for analogue and digital components, which seems a bit unnecessary.

http://www.puritanaudiolabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/RouteMaster-Usage-Notes.pdf

I have new house wiring installed in 2021. Every wire is new, starting from the 3-phase supply in the street. It's connected as three separate 100A supplies, one dedicated to the audio. Everything is in galvanised boxing and the short feed (20 ft) to the audio is under about a foot of concrete and stone, in a well shielded NeoTech drained cable. I don't think I have any grounding issues, but I was going to buy a set of Puritan kit just to see if it makes any difference.
 

SCAudiophile

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Sep 11, 2010
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Shunyata has been using its noise isolation chamber NIC technology for many years. This uses a ferroelectric material to remove noise on the AC. It’s my understanding that this technology is used in the Altaira boxes as well, except it’s tuned to address the noise found in the ground plane.

When it comes to noise reduction, passive solutions are often superior to active solutions as they don’t generate noise themselves and they don’t open up another pathway for noise to enter.
It's true that the NIC technology for Shunyata has been used for years. What's in Everest, Typhon T2 and Altaira is from what I was told, at least the 4th generational upgrade of that technology, how to build the NIC modules, etc...
 
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