Should i surrender? Perlisten sub

[sbo6]

Thank you! very very interesting. I bold one comment on the sound you make which is what I have experienced (to a degree) and which I have definitely read is part of what happens when extraordinarily high quality subwoofer set up is achieved.

I suppose I just have to get around to doing it when the product, the budget, the professionals and the time are all aligned...more to come.

Meanwhile, have you heard anything about the new Perlisten 8si? The 8-woofer 4' tall/9" thin powered sub? They call it a new flagship...but to be honest, it is not clear to me where the D215 is still not the flagship?

I have heard of the 8si, I think I read they showed it at CES. I agree, I'm not sure it's better.

The 8si pluses are: ~14% more cone surface area (minimal IMO) versus the D215S, 8 motor structures that may yield better control (versus 2), maybe not.

Cons - lower frequencies lend better to larger drivers in terms of ease, efficiency and F max requirements. I have not seen a price on it yet, but I'm guessing it's more than the D215S which is not $11,200 with the grill.

 

[LL21]

I have heard of the 8si, I think I read they showed it at CES. I agree, I'm not sure it's better.

The 8si pluses are: ~14% more cone surface area (minimal IMO) versus the D215S, 8 motor structures that may yield better control (versus 2), maybe not.

Cons - lower frequencies lend better to larger drivers in terms of ease, efficiency and F max requirements. I have not seen a price on it yet, but I'm guessing it's more than the D215S which is not $11,200 with the grill.

Thank you and clear.

 

[VPN]

This is the crossover I used with the tri-amped Clarisys Auditorium set-up in Spokane. I like this crossover a lot.

Philosophically I am happy to give up some flexibility in return for remaining in the analog domain.

Dead Ron, I understand that Clarisys used the dsp based Accuphase DF-55 crossover in their huge system at the Munich High End 2025 l, which you liked. Which one would you pick? The CSPORT ACN200/ACN400 or the Accuphase DF-55?

https://www.accuphase.com/cat/df-55_e.pdf

 

[sbo6]

Whether or not they're actually is phase alignment and whether or not there is a measurable group delay is irrelevant if you happen not to be sensitive to it. Some audiophiles are sensitive to phase alignment or group delay or both. Either I don't know what to listen for or I'm not sensitive to it, because I don't hear any problems playing with my panel speakers and the woofer towers.

I am sensitive to frequency. (I think we all are sensitive to frequency.) I used REW to see whether in phase or out of phase provides a smoother low frequency response.



Forgive me if I missed this analysis above, but two D215S replaced four Fathoms? So you reduced overall woofage?

Ron, all our systems in our small rooms have group delay, and it's all measurable. And we're all sensitive to it, however, and specific to phase it isn't as simple as setting it as the implications are not linear across the frequency spectrum due to the mains proximity to the sub(s) and the listening seat(s) along with room interactions. Net - it's not that simple.

Also, saying we are all sensitive to frequency, of course, it's part of being human, and most animals can detect frequency differences as pitch changes, the question is how sensitive. What is known and what I've observed is - we can detect larger trends (dips and peaks) in frequency differences, with smaller differences (both amplitude and frequency) our ear brain compensates for when hearing music.

Lastly, I did replace 4 JLA Fathoms (2: F110s and 2: F113s) with 2: Perlisten D215s, increasing the total subwoofer driver surface area from 443 sq" to 707sq". But it's not just about "woofage", driver size / surface area, the Perlistens' distortion level is noticeably lower than the JLA (and RELs, many others IME). I attribute it partially to Perlisten's Push - Pull configuration which counteracts asymmetric distortion known to be the primary cause of even-order harmonic distortion, reducing it by 10-12dB. There are many more tech advantages to Perlistens' designs versus the usual candidates' big driver in an MDF box that's available on their site.

 

[VPN]

I received my Rockport Orion last week, so now 1000h of burn in. Using them with my two Perlisten d215s (with Revopods). Now crossing the Perlisten at 32hz, second order, gain at -17.5db. Quite happy with the sound.

 

[LL21]

I received my Rockport Orion last week, so now 1000h of burn in. Using them with my two Perlisten d215s (with Revopods). Now crossing the Perlisten at 32hz, second order, gain at -17.5db. Quite happy with the sound.

Congrats! That is really great news...look forward to reading more about them. What happens when you turn on/off the Perlistens? Most intrigued!

 

[VPN]

Congrats! That is really great news...look forward to reading more about them. What happens when you turn on/off the Perlistens? Most intrigued!

Thanks! Better sound with the Perlisten. More low frequency extension, more body impact and slam, more body in the midrange.

Maybe this will change after 1000h of burn in, but I highly doubt.

 

[LL21]

Thanks! Better sound with the Perlisten. More low frequency extension, more body impact and slam, more body in the midrange.

Maybe this will change after 1000h of burn in, but I highly doubt.

Great! I imagine it only gets better from here!

 

[Ron Resnick]

I received my Rockport Orion last week, so now 1000h of burn in. Using them with my two Perlisten d215s (with Revopods). Now crossing the Perlisten at 32hz, second order, gain at -17.5db. Quite happy with the sound.

Congratulations!

 

[rhyno]

one thing i'd love for someone to explain to me:

the Rel Carbon Special and the Perlisten D212s have roughly the same setup (one passive driver, one active; heroic digital amp, lots of config flexibility).
So why is the Perlisten ~ 2x the price?

 

[exupgh12]

one thing i'd love for someone to explain to me:

the Rel Carbon Special and the Perlisten D212s have roughly the same setup (one passive driver, one active; heroic digital amp, lots of config flexibility).
So why is the Perlisten ~ 2x the price?

The chip, the software, and other things besides the drivers materials.
with all the respect, REL subs don't stop and start fast as perlisten subs do.

 

[LL21]

The chip, the software, and other things besides the drivers materials.
with all the respect, REL subs don't stop and start fast as perlisten subs do.

I am not particularly familiar with either, but certainly have read and heard good things about both reference subs. As for Perlisten, I have also read this: https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/perlisten-d215s

 

[Ron Resnick]

The Perlisten does not offer speaker level input, I believe, if that matters.