Rockport Orions with a subwoofer?

[microstrip]

IMO I don't think any speaker company doesn't recommend implementing subs, even those that don't make sub products. But there's a perception that some speakers are so elite that subs dilute the sonic benefits of the mains.

Unfortunately yes. An abusive generalization, IMO. Surely I easily accept that the bi-amplified Arrakis's in Rockport exceptional listening room don't need subs. But very few audiophiles have such rooms.

How, if remotely even true that outweighs the detriments of sub(s)'room mode management is comical.

Yes. First - how can people tell if a subwoofer is or not beneficial without proper knowledge of the room? Many times the best position for imaging and timbre creates a bass null, that can't be compensated unless we place a bass source in another position - nulls due do cancellation can't be equalized. Second - how can others know how a particular listener appreciates the effects of having subsonic stereo information?

Those having read Andy Payor will not find that he opposes the subwoofer concept - his main concern is using different types of amplifiers with the different transfer functions in a system. He dislikes the idea of matching for example a SET with a class D for bass.

Subwoofer systems are not all the same. One the best tools I have tried when playing with subs was the JLAudio CR1 active crossover damping function, even when used just for the sub.

BTW, my experience with subs is just with the JLAudio F113 mk2's with the CR1 active crossover and the Wilson Watchdog's and Wilson Audio crossover.

 

[JiminGa]

Apparently I became "confused" speaking with Josh last week during our hour long conversation. One of several last year and this one, along with John. BTW both great people to speak with. Perhaps he or I wasn't specific enough? Or perhaps the client in Mexico City that Josh told me about with Lyra's and a 6 pack array of Carbon Special's was also a figment of my imagination. The obvious was mentioned regarding set-up. Getting the Lyra's situated first. That's when things become murky, and me talking about the cubic feet, would one consider a pair of 31's or 32's vs the 6 pack array of Carbon Specials. If memory serves me right that's when the figment of my imagination erupted and me "thinking" that Josh mentioned the client in Mexico City. Along with Josh saying go with the 6 pack of Carbon Specials, especially the fact that you have them. I love a good Mystery! I also wish I had the unlimited scratch to implement the Lyra's now! Selling my 6 Carbon Specials will help. BTW, it's a good thing this has come to my attention because I was go to speak with the imaginary figure in Mexico City...

No need to get huffy. You are not confused. They are not going to share their personal views and maybe I shouldn't have either. They will help any client achieve what they are looking for. My conversations go back years (prior to Josh) and never involved my personal tastes. I'm interested in their design philosophy and tastes. As they are speaker designers over the years I have brought up all the potential benefits of subwoofers of which there are many. We went over each one. One by one. They personally and in their own systems do not favor them. Of course they would point you to customers who have done so and are happy with the results if you want to do so. I myself used the Real 25s with the Cygnus when I had them for almost 10 years. They have the same woofers as Lyra. It took a very very long time to perfect them. I did enjoy it and I missed certain things about them when I took them out in preparation for Orion but on balance I was happier without..The Orion woofer couples with the room very differently than Lyra which is why I chose it over Lyra. I am not calling you confused. I am responding to your post. There is a pubic side to this and a private one. Lets leave it at that. Andy used to build speakers with built in subs. He also had a powered Arraakis. Its possible they will revisit it when creating a new top of the line mega speaker one day. As I said i asked them about building a woofer/subwoofer tower for this but they are focused on building the highest performance speaker in the smallest possible enclosur at this point. The opposite of almost every other brand. its ok to have your own opinion and tastes and to pursue them. I applaud you.Go have fun in Mexico. Build your dream. Its your own.

 

[John T]

No need to get huffy. You are not confused. They are not going to share their personal views and maybe I shouldn't have either. They will help any client achieve what they are looking for. My conversations go back years (prior to Josh) and never involved my personal tastes. I'm interested in their design philosophy and tastes. As they are speaker designers over the years I have brought up all the potential benefits of subwoofers of which there are many. We went over each one. One by one. They personally and in their own systems do not favor them. Of course they would point you to customers who have done so and are happy with the results if you want to do so. I myself used the Real 25s with the Cygnus when I had them for almost 10 years. They have the same woofers as Lyra. It took a very very long time to perfect them. I did enjoy it and I missed certain things about them when I took them out in preparation for Orion but on balance I was happier without..The Orion woofer couples with the room very differently than Lyra which is why I chose it over Lyra. I am not calling you confused. I am responding to your post. There is a pubic side to this and a private one. Lets leave it at that. Andy used to build speakers with built in subs. He also had a powered Arraakis. Its possible they will revisit it when creating a new top of the line mega speaker one day. As I said i asked them about building a woofer/subwoofer tower for this but they are focused on building the highest performance speaker in the smallest possible enclosur at this point. The opposite of almost every other brand. its ok to have your own opinion and tastes and to pursue them. I applaud you.Go have fun in Mexico. Build your dream. Its your own.

Agreed, several sides when explaining. I get it, and sorry for the sarcasm. I did get a chuckle regarding "go have fun in Mexico". Great culinary experience in Mexico City, with or without subs...

 

[JiminGa]

Agreed, several sides when explaining. I get it, and sorry for the sarcasm. I did get a chuckle regarding "go have fun in Mexico". Great culinary experience in Mexico City, with or without subs...

Agreed. Big fan of Mole.

 

[sbo6]

BTW, my experience with subs is just with the JLAudio F113 mk2's with the CR1 active crossover and the Wilson Watchdog's and Wilson Audio crossover.

I'm curious your thoughts comparing the JLA F113s Mk IIs with the CR1 versus the Wilson watchdogs and the Wilson XO.