10 x 12' room, "bass" is difficult to manage even with treatment, especially at moderate to louder levels.
Also, people = ?? Bass is bass, low frequencies are huge waves that require large treatment surfaces in small rooms (when there's already limited space).
Can you get good sound? Sure. "Perfect bass" "with no congestion", not going to happen.
I think the key to great bass in small rooms revolves around putting the correct size speaker in the space, location of speaker (ie away from wall) and chair placement, and acoustic treatment. A lot of people want the big speaker but have small spaces and it frankly won’t work. I talk people into smaller speakers more than I talk them into larger ones. If you stick a Rockport Avior II in a 14x15 you aren’t going to be able to get it out of your face. Simply too much speaker for the space. If you put the Atria in that same space it can sound spectacular and blow minds. When I see these huge speakers going into tiny rooms on instagram I cringe because some dealer sold that to him. I’m sorry but no matter what you do a grand salon speaker doesn’t belong in a 10x12, no matter what you do. Can you get crazy bass in a 10x12 with a monitor, absolutely. Does this extension go below 30hz, no. Tight, controlled bass with decent enough extension is absolutely possibly though.
True but when most people talk about bass they are talking about mid and upper bass. If you listen to acoustic small format stuff the lowest frequency you’ll notice is 41.5hz. The “bass” people refer to is often 60-100hz. At these frequencies at modest volumes these modes are manageable. When I go to someone’s house and they say “listen to this bass” it’s never real low bass sub 20hz or so. It’s always 40-80hz which people seem to love and speaker makers seem to emphasize.
Agreed. My speakers go lower in bass than quite a few others that I have heard, and still, with subwoofers it gets even lower. Yet there is a catch: In my 12 ft x 24 ft room I can get some decently low bass because of its length (I don't like the narrow width) but even then, I have to set the attenuator on my JL Audio subs to about -10 dB at 25 Hz (you can guess where that lands when it comes to 20 Hz). Otherwise I get hopeless room overload.
Even then, deep bass electronica makes the room shake and you really feel the bass. But it still ain't 20 Hz, not by a long shot. Heck, even the main speakers without subs can produce rather impressive bass with deep bass electronica, easily exceeding what I have heard elsewhere. But what is that lowest frequency then? Maybe 40 Hz or so.
When people say their speakers go down to 35 Hz, yeah, good luck with that. Mostly just ain't happening, certainly not without substantial roll-off before then. What they really hear mostly may be linear down to at best 50 Hz, that's it.
10 x 12' room, "bass" is difficult to manage even with treatment, especially at moderate to louder levels.
Also, people = ?? Bass is bass, low frequencies are huge waves that require large treatment surfaces in small rooms (when there's already limited space).
Can you get good sound? Sure. "Perfect bass" "with no congestion", not going to happen.
Ok. My point is that “bass” is not a precise term. A 20hz signal has a 56ft wavelength which is why a 30 foot room dimension is useful (1/2 the wavelength). In the case of a 40hz signal the wavelength is 28ft and an 80 hz wavelength is 14 feet. Guitar and violin go down to 80hz while e string bass is 41.5. You would need a 14 ft (1/2 28) dimension minimum to play these without significant issues and if you listen to acoustic jazz at reasonable levels this should be ok. To truly play any type of music at live levels yes you will need the 30ft but not everyone does this. 14 feet would not suffice for me but perhaps it does for them. We’d have to know more about what they are playing.
I think the key to great bass in small rooms revolves around putting the correct size speaker in the space, location of speaker (ie away from wall) and chair placement, and acoustic treatment. A lot of people want the big speaker but have small spaces and it frankly won’t work. I talk people into smaller speakers more than I talk them into larger ones. If you stick a Rockport Avior II in a 14x15 you aren’t going to be able to get it out of your face. Simply too much speaker for the space. If you put the Atria in that same space it can sound spectacular and blow minds. When I see these huge speakers going into tiny rooms on instagram I cringe because some dealer sold that to him. I’m sorry but no matter what you do a grand salon speaker doesn’t belong in a 10x12, no matter what you do. Can you get crazy bass in a 10x12 with a monitor, absolutely. Does this extension go below 30hz, no. Tight, controlled bass with decent enough extension is absolutely possibly though.
Yes, that all sounds right. I have always been deadly afraid of putting a too large speaker into my narrow-ish room (12 ft wide). For the longest time therefore I used monitors with subs. Only 2 years ago I took the plunge on floorstanders (PranaFidelity Dhyana), but it was a calculated risk. The front baffle is only 10" wide, and the speaker is just 4 ft tall. It did work out, but not without very careful set-up (also away from the walls, and with experimenting over a long time) and not without serious bass management with TubeTraps. The bass management in the room with my monitors/subs was much easier than with these speakers.
Was it worth it? Absolutely. Much better sound and better bass. The monitor/sub combo was good in the low(er) bass (obviously) and even also in the mid-bass (after very careful dialing in). Yet the upper bass didn't have enough weight and strength, that was a weak point -- usually the mid-bass is cited as weak point with monitor/sub combos, but it really was the upper bass here (which affects the impact of drums as well). The current speakers (also augmented by subs) deliver quality bass with great weight and punch throughout the range. I play at relatively loud SPL.
I think the key to great bass in small rooms revolves around putting the correct size speaker in the space, location of speaker (ie away from wall) and chair placement, and acoustic treatment. A lot of people want the big speaker but have small spaces and it frankly won’t work. I talk people into smaller speakers more than I talk them into larger ones. If you stick a Rockport Avior II in a 14x15 you aren’t going to be able to get it out of your face. Simply too much speaker for the space. If you put the Atria in that same space it can sound spectacular and blow minds. When I see these huge speakers going into tiny rooms on instagram I cringe because some dealer sold that to him. I’m sorry but no matter what you do a grand salon speaker doesn’t belong in a 10x12, no matter what you do. Can you get crazy bass in a 10x12 with a monitor, absolutely. Does this extension go below 30hz, no. Tight, controlled bass with decent enough extension is absolutely possibly though.
Hence my attenuation of the subs (see above) without which the room would be overwhelmed indeed at higher SPL. And that's at 24 feet length of the room (even though at narrow width).
You had to be there. I've been into high end audio for over 30 years, and have heard bass flat down to 20-25 cycles in smaller rooms, Its a rarity, but it can happen. I've heard a pair an Atria I''s in a Dallas showroom several years ago pressurize a room probably 8x10! Truly, the sound of the Lynx in that small 10x12 or 12x14 room was really good and would be shocked if it wasn't down to 25 cycles. And no bloat either.
You had to be there. I've been into high end audio for over 30 years, and have heard bass flat down to 20-25 cycles in smaller rooms, Its a rarity, but it can happen. I've heard a pair an Atria I''s in a Dallas showroom several years ago pressurize a room probably 8x10! Truly, the sound of the Lynx in that small 10x12 or 12x14 room was really good and would be shocked if it wasn't down to 25 cycles. And no bloat either.
First, you can't hear 20Hz, but you may be able to feel it. Second - I can't agree as a small room (let alone 80 sq ft) simply can't handle such bass with walls in such close proximity. It's physics. You must love lots of bass.
You had to be there. I've been into high end audio for over 30 years, and have heard bass flat down to 20-25 cycles in smaller rooms, Its a rarity, but it can happen. I've heard a pair an Atria I''s in a Dallas showroom several years ago pressurize a room probably 8x10! Truly, the sound of the Lynx in that small 10x12 or 12x14 room was really good and would be shocked if it wasn't down to 25 cycles. And no bloat either.
I don't believe 25 cycles. From Atria (which I've heard repeatedly) and Lynx? No way. As I and others have argued above from experience, audiophiles usually very much overestimate how low speakers go in real-world situations.
I don't believe 25 cycles. From Atria (which I've heard repeatedly) and Lynx? No way. As I and others have argued above from experience, audiophiles usually very much overestimate how low speakers go in real-world situations.
It's true I didn't measure with a SPL monitor how many dB down the Lynx were in that room, but I have heard and measured countless speakers with a test tone disc and SPL attempting the best placement (always a compromise) and by my ears I would be shocked if the Lynx didn't measure more than -3 to 6db down at 25 cycles or so. This room couldn't be more than 12x14 x 8 ft.
It's true I didn't measure with a SPL monitor how many dB down the Lynx were in that room, but I have heard and measured countless speakers with a test tone disc and SPL attempting the best placement (always a compromise) and by my ears I would be shocked if the Lynx didn't measure more than -3 to 6db down at 25 cycles or so. This room couldn't be more than 12x14 x 8 ft.
The bass seemed quite good - good detail, texture and palpability. And it wasn't boomy or congested. And it was extended. I quite liked it. Perhaps its somewhat based on the Lynx and Orion woofer design and cabinet.
Usually when I hear muddy bass, it obscures the air and detail of the upper frequencies - this experience with the Lynx did neither.
