Reality is Cruel : Cybershaft new Ultimate OCXO 10M Clocks Shootout OP20 vs OP17

cykin

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Mar 23, 2022
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Thanks for all the comments. I am going to give op21 a shot once their oversea shop is ready.
 
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Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2013
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I’m a bit confused even more then typical
I remember Reading some white papers based not just on hearing perspectives alone
these were measurements
a spidif cable it was noted to be critical to Match imp on cables to all devices.
so in reading above has anyone done measuring to see ?
lastly I always felt internal clocks made a better sound aside of studio usage.
 

HTMUSIC

New Member
Jan 16, 2022
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Hi everyone, this is my first post in wbf.

I am thinking of getting Esoteric G02X or OP21E-D for my Esoteric N01XD. It will be a nice looking setup for my Esoteric N01XD and f03a with G02x. However, for the sound quality, dose OP21E-D provide a superior performance than G02x. My Esoteric dealer told me G01x was not available for a long time and G1x is out of my shooting range.

My Esoteric dealer somehow told me the cybershaft may not suit the new N01XD, maybe too clear for new generation. Also, I am a bit hesitant in buying G02x which is a 2016 product. I hope someone can help me with it. Please advice, thanks.
My sister's system is N-01XD & F-03A with cybershaft OP20A (not OP21A) that has just been arrived from Cybershaft last week.
Cybershaft Japan has shotdown their online shop since the middle of January due to their factory movement.
They will soon relaunch their online shop and also newly open it for foreign customers.
Firstly you don't need to introduce Esoteric's clock system. Because N-01XD accepts 10MHz clock directly from Cybershaft's OPXX.
And N-01XD automatically accept both of 50-ohm and 75-ohm signals from it.
According to Hasegawa-san, CEO of Cybershaft, many Japanese owenes of N-01XD are using Cybershaft's master clock generators.
His products have good reputations from N-01XD users.
You will be able to feel rich sound stage with improved sound quality as soon as you connect N-01XD and OPxx.
My recommended BNC cable is "XP-DIC/BNC EN SE: 75 ohm BNC cable" of Cross Point(Japanese maker).
My sister is using two cables : one is Cross Point's 75 ohm BNC cable for N-01XD and another one is SOtM's 50 ohm BNC cable for SOtM's switch.
 

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CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
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My sister's system is N-01XD & F-03A with cybershaft OP20A (not OP21A) that has just been arrived from Cybershaft last week.
Cybershaft Japan has shotdown their online shop since the middle of January due to their factory movement.
They will soon relaunch their online shop and also newly open it for foreign customers.
Firstly you don't need to introduce Esoteric's clock system. Because N-01XD accepts 10MHz clock directly from Cybershaft's OPXX.
And N-01XD automatically accept both of 50-ohm and 75-ohm signals from it.
According to Hasegawa-san, CEO of Cybershaft, many Japanese owenes of N-01XD are using Cybershaft's master clock generators.
His products have good reputations from N-01XD users.
You will be able to feel rich sound stage with improved sound quality as soon as you connect N-01XD and OPxx.
My recommended BNC cable is "XP-DIC/BNC EN SE: 75 ohm BNC cable" of Cross Point(Japanese maker).
My sister is using two cables : one is Cross Point's 75 ohm BNC cable for N-01XD and another one is SOtM's 50 ohm BNC cable for SOtM's switch.
Thanks for the useful info!

Cross Point makes very hi-end audio accessories.
Their power receptacles are awesome! Uncommon in Hong Kong but two frds of mine are using them very happily.
 

HTMUSIC

New Member
Jan 16, 2022
7
6
3
Thanks for the useful info!

Cross Point makes very hi-end audio accessories.
Their power receptacles are awesome! Uncommon in Hong Kong but two frds of mine are using them very happily.
CK, more from me as always!!
They are making high performance audio fuse,too. They are very expensive (JPY 107,000/pc).
I'm using SR's Purple fuses for Bartok, HPA4 and Octave's V110SE.
AMPs improved sound balance and DAC improved sound quality very much!!
As you have already recommended in another thread, fuse changes everything!!
Near future I'd like to try QSA's Black/Red fuse ( infortunately Silver is out of budget) for my DAC.

PS. Today I ran the following clocking impact comparison by using above mentioned my sister's system.
1. 10MHz clocking with SOtM Switch only (with SOtM's 50 ohm cable)
2. 10MHz clocking with N-01XD only (with Cross Point 75 ohm cable)
3. 10MHz clocking both of SOtM and N-01XD
Result was 3 >>1 > 2 Clocking with Switch only was better than clocking with N-01XD only.
 

cykin

New Member
Mar 23, 2022
10
4
3
36
My sister's system is N-01XD & F-03A with cybershaft OP20A (not OP21A) that has just been arrived from Cybershaft last week.
Cybershaft Japan has shotdown their online shop since the middle of January due to their factory movement.
They will soon relaunch their online shop and also newly open it for foreign customers.
Firstly you don't need to introduce Esoteric's clock system. Because N-01XD accepts 10MHz clock directly from Cybershaft's OPXX.
And N-01XD automatically accept both of 50-ohm and 75-ohm signals from it.
According to Hasegawa-san, CEO of Cybershaft, many Japanese owenes of N-01XD are using Cybershaft's master clock generators.
His products have good reputations from N-01XD users.
You will be able to feel rich sound stage with improved sound quality as soon as you connect N-01XD and OPxx.
My recommended BNC cable is "XP-DIC/BNC EN SE: 75 ohm BNC cable" of Cross Point(Japanese maker).
My sister is using two cables : one is Cross Point's 75 ohm BNC cable for N-01XD and another one is SOtM's 50 ohm BNC cable for SOtM's switch.
HTMUSIC, thank you for the information.

How do you feel GND with Isolate or chassis?
I am thinking of SAEC PC-Triple C / EX and Habst.. Any comment?
 

cykin

New Member
Mar 23, 2022
10
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So both 75ohm and 50ohm cables can be used with n01xd? Thanks.
 

HTMUSIC

New Member
Jan 16, 2022
7
6
3
So both 75ohm and 50ohm cables can be used with n01xd? Thanks.
HTMUSIC, thank you for the information.

How do you feel GND with Isolate or chassis?
I am thinking of SAEC PC-Triple C / EX and Habst.. Any comment?
Hello cykin,

You can use both of 75ohm and 50ohm cables for N-01XD as my sister is using SOtM's 50ohm and Cross Point's 75ohm cables.
In their owner manual & page 9 shows...
"Use commercially-available BNC coaxial cables for connections. o BNC coaxial cables with 50Ω or 75Ω impedance can be used"

I've set GND with isolate based on Hasegawa-san's recommendation. I have no experiences with GND with chassis.

As to BNC cable, I have experiences of using the following cables so far.
1. Cybershaft's standard cable
2. SAEC's DIG-T50 (lower price's) USD 100 or so
3. SOtM's BNC 50 ohm cable (middle class but very good performance) USD 700
3. Cross Point (High-end) about USD 2K -> I was using this before. Now my sister has taken over it and has been very satisfied with the great performance.
4. Brise Audio's MURAKUMO (High-end) about USD 7K -> I believe it must be No.1 BNC cable in the world.
I'm using it for SOtM's USB reclocker and switch.

This site may help you...
The Audiophile's Short List - The Best Digital Coaxial Cables - Audio Bacon
 
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cykin

New Member
Mar 23, 2022
10
4
3
36
Hello cykin,

You can use both of 75ohm and 50ohm cables for N-01XD as my sister is using SOtM's 50ohm and Cross Point's 75ohm cables.
In their owner manual & page 9 shows...
"Use commercially-available BNC coaxial cables for connections. o BNC coaxial cables with 50Ω or 75Ω impedance can be used"

I've set GND with isolate based on Hasegawa-san's recommendation. I have no experiences with GND with chassis.

As to BNC cable, I have experiences of using the following cables so far.
1. Cybershaft's standard cable
2. SAEC's DIG-T50 (lower price's) USD 100 or so
3. SOtM's BNC 50 ohm cable (middle class but very good performance) USD 700
3. Cross Point (High-end) about USD 2K -> I was using this before. Now my sister has taken over it and has been very satisfied with the great performance.
4. Brise Audio's MURAKUMO (High-end) about USD 7K -> I believe it must be No.1 BNC cable in the world.
I'm using it for SOtM's USB reclocker and switch.

This site may help you...
The Audiophile's Short List - The Best Digital Coaxial Cables - Audio Bacon
Do you think the BNC cable makes a large difference?
 

cykin

New Member
Mar 23, 2022
10
4
3
36
Hello cykin,

You can use both of 75ohm and 50ohm cables for N-01XD as my sister is using SOtM's 50ohm and Cross Point's 75ohm cables.
In their owner manual & page 9 shows...
"Use commercially-available BNC coaxial cables for connections. o BNC coaxial cables with 50Ω or 75Ω impedance can be used"

I've set GND with isolate based on Hasegawa-san's recommendation. I have no experiences with GND with chassis.

As to BNC cable, I have experiences of using the following cables so far.
1. Cybershaft's standard cable
2. SAEC's DIG-T50 (lower price's) USD 100 or so
3. SOtM's BNC 50 ohm cable (middle class but very good performance) USD 700
3. Cross Point (High-end) about USD 2K -> I was using this before. Now my sister has taken over it and has been very satisfied with the great performance.
4. Brise Audio's MURAKUMO (High-end) about USD 7K -> I believe it must be No.1 BNC cable in the world.
I'm using it for SOtM's USB reclocker and switch.

This site may help you...
The Audiophile's Short List - The Best Digital Coaxial Cables - Audio Bacon
May I know which power cords do you use for N01Xd and f03a? Which XLR to connect them? Thanks again.
 

HTMUSIC

New Member
Jan 16, 2022
7
6
3
May I know which power cords do you use for N01Xd and f03a? Which XLR to connect them? Thanks again.
We are using local supplier's power code and XLR cables.
As you may know, the voltage in Japan is 100V.

My sister is using CHIKUMA's power codes (price range: USD 1000/pc) for them.
Chikuma | PRODUCTS - 製品紹介 (chikuma-s.com)

Interconnect XLR and speaker cables used for Esoteric system were made by an old engineer (around 70 years old) who worked for Nippon Telegraph and Telephone Corporation. Unfortunately you can't get them from outside of Japan.

For my system DAC:dCS Bartok+ and AMP: Octave V110SE, I'm using Brise Audio's MURAKUMO XLR and above mentioned custom made speaker cables.

I hope you can find a good BNC cable soon.
 

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cykin

New Member
Mar 23, 2022
10
4
3
36
We are using local supplier's power code and XLR cables.
As you may know, the voltage in Japan is 100V.

My sister is using CHIKUMA's power codes (price range: USD 1000/pc) for them.
Chikuma | PRODUCTS - 製品紹介 (chikuma-s.com)

Interconnect XLR and speaker cables used for Esoteric system were made by an old engineer (around 70 years old) who worked for Nippon Telegraph and Telephone Corporation. Unfortunately you can't get them from outside of Japan.

For my system DAC:dCS Bartok+ and AMP: Octave V110SE, I'm using Brise Audio's MURAKUMO XLR and above mentioned custom made speaker cables.

I hope you can find a good BNC cable soon.
Thank you for sharing. Deep appreciation
 

arnod

New Member
Feb 3, 2022
9
5
3
40
Hello cykin,

You can use both of 75ohm and 50ohm cables for N-01XD as my sister is using SOtM's 50ohm and Cross Point's 75ohm cables.
In their owner manual & page 9 shows...
"Use commercially-available BNC coaxial cables for connections. o BNC coaxial cables with 50Ω or 75Ω impedance can be used"

I've set GND with isolate based on Hasegawa-san's recommendation. I have no experiences with GND with chassis.

As to BNC cable, I have experiences of using the following cables so far.
1. Cybershaft's standard cable
2. SAEC's DIG-T50 (lower price's) USD 100 or so
3. SOtM's BNC 50 ohm cable (middle class but very good performance) USD 700
3. Cross Point (High-end) about USD 2K -> I was using this before. Now my sister has taken over it and has been very satisfied with the great performance.
4. Brise Audio's MURAKUMO (High-end) about USD 7K -> I believe it must be No.1 BNC cable in the world.
I'm using it for SOtM's USB reclocker and switch.

This site may help you...
The Audiophile's Short List - The Best Digital Coaxial Cables - Audio Bacon
Interestingly, I've found the switch set to GND sound a bit more open compared to the "Isolate" setting.

Regarding BNC cables, I've switched from standard cables to the solid-core silver Oyaide DB-510, and I'm very happy with the improvement in tonal clarity. I'm using these cables not only from the Cybershaft to the wordclock device, but also from it to the DA converter and interface. Due to the improved high-end frequency response due to these cables, now I've found the 75 ohms and low level settings to be the best sounding ones (previously, I tended to prefer 50 ohms and/or high level setting).
 
Last edited:

SCAudiophile

Super Moderator
Staff member
Sep 11, 2010
1,051
275
555
Greer South Carolina (USA)
Hello cykin,

You can use both of 75ohm and 50ohm cables for N-01XD as my sister is using SOtM's 50ohm and Cross Point's 75ohm cables.
In their owner manual & page 9 shows...
"Use commercially-available BNC coaxial cables for connections. o BNC coaxial cables with 50Ω or 75Ω impedance can be used"

I've set GND with isolate based on Hasegawa-san's recommendation. I have no experiences with GND with chassis.

As to BNC cable, I have experiences of using the following cables so far.
1. Cybershaft's standard cable
2. SAEC's DIG-T50 (lower price's) USD 100 or so
3. SOtM's BNC 50 ohm cable (middle class but very good performance) USD 700
3. Cross Point (High-end) about USD 2K -> I was using this before. Now my sister has taken over it and has been very satisfied with the great performance.
4. Brise Audio's MURAKUMO (High-end) about USD 7K -> I believe it must be No.1 BNC cable in the world.
I'm using it for SOtM's USB reclocker and switch.

This site may help you...
The Audiophile's Short List - The Best Digital Coaxial Cables - Audio Bacon
With respect I will point out this is one area where the translation of the manual and its original content are misleading.

There is "can" and there is "should"....

The manual states ""Use commercially-available BNC coaxial cables for connections. BNC coaxial cables with 50Ω or 75Ω impedance can be used".

That is absolutely true however it is terribly misleading in that the reason it's true is the unit has both a 50-ohm specified INPUT and a 75-ohm specified clock OUTPUT that can be used with downstream devices with either OUT44 or OUT48 (see manual for text on all of this).

In other words, yes you "can" use both 50-ohm and 75-ohm cables with the unit however, you "should" use a 50-ohm cable with the 50-ohm input from a 50-ohm output of suitable clock and you "should" use a 75-ohm cable on the CLOCK OUTPUT if you use that.

While 50-ohm is the stronger of the 2 standards in terms of data bandwidth, etc...supported and several of us here and on other forums have done months of blind listening tests some years ago and found that 50 can be used in place of 75 without much downside, the substituting of 75 ohm to carry a 50-ohm clock signal leads to some interesting side effects in imaging precision, instrument size, soundstage depth, etc...with certain units that were in the testers' systems (Esoteric, DCS, other and clocks from Esoteric, DCS, Cybershaft, and other). When a proper 50-ohm cable with proper 50-ohm termination was used, the side effects disappeared.

Offering this as opinion only, your mileage may vary and all that.

In this case the Esoteric manual(s) could be much better written and more explicit. They do however explicitly state in the input/output specs list section that the input is 50-ohm and the type of signal whereas they list the output is 75-ohm and the signal characteristics. It seems they mean users to adhere to that when choosing cables and connecting devices.
 

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2013
2,457
923
385
NYC , USA
With respect I will point out this is one area where the translation of the manual and its original content are misleading.

There is "can" and there is "should"....

The manual states ""Use commercially-available BNC coaxial cables for connections. BNC coaxial cables with 50Ω or 75Ω impedance can be used".

That is absolutely true however it is terribly misleading in that the reason it's true is the unit has both a 50-ohm specified INPUT and a 75-ohm specified clock OUTPUT that can be used with downstream devices with either OUT44 or OUT48 (see manual for text on all of this).

In other words, yes you "can" use both 50-ohm and 75-ohm cables with the unit however, you "should" use a 50-ohm cable with the 50-ohm input from a 50-ohm output of suitable clock and you "should" use a 75-ohm cable on the CLOCK OUTPUT if you use that.

While 50-ohm is the stronger of the 2 standards in terms of data bandwidth, etc...supported and several of us here and on other forums have done months of blind listening tests some years ago and found that 50 can be used in place of 75 without much downside, the substituting of 75 ohm to carry a 50-ohm clock signal leads to some interesting side effects in imaging precision, instrument size, soundstage depth, etc...with certain units that were in the testers' systems (Esoteric, DCS, other and clocks from Esoteric, DCS, Cybershaft, and other). When a proper 50-ohm cable with proper 50-ohm termination was used, the side effects disappeared.

Offering this as opinion only, your mileage may vary and all that.

In this case the Esoteric manual(s) could be much better written and more explicit. They do however explicitly state in the input/output specs list section that the input is 50-ohm and the type of signal whereas they list the output is 75-ohm and the signal characteristics. It seems they mean users to adhere to that when choosing cables and connecting devices.
Lol and. I say it’s not ideal and get crickets. lets see how you do
 

SCAudiophile

Super Moderator
Staff member
Sep 11, 2010
1,051
275
555
Greer South Carolina (USA)
Well, I suspect I'll be in great company and join you soon :)
 

kennyb123

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2012
487
312
370
Kirkland, WA
While 50-ohm is the stronger of the 2 standards in terms of data bandwidth, etc...supported and several of us here and on other forums have done months of blind listening tests some years ago and found that 50 can be used in place of 75 without much downside, the substituting of 75 ohm to carry a 50-ohm clock signal leads to some interesting side effects in imaging precision, instrument size, soundstage depth, etc...with certain units that were in the testers' systems (Esoteric, DCS, other and clocks from Esoteric, DCS, Cybershaft, and other). When a proper 50-ohm cable with proper 50-ohm termination was used, the side effects disappeared.
To get the best measuring clock and then introduce impedance mismatches has seemed counter-intuitive to me. Some are saying though that impedance mismatches matterfar less though with sine wave than with square wave. Which type of clock signal yielded the side effects you folks heard?
 

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2013
2,457
923
385
NYC , USA
if you want some info
go to audio circle
then empirical audio
Steve Nugent
he was part of the pentium intel processor group
he has posted screen shots of Coax data streaming in matching and jitter when mismatched
 
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