Reality is Cruel : Cybershaft new Ultimate OCXO 10M Clocks Shootout OP20 vs OP17

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
1,135
251
83
Hong Kong
#1
Cybershaft in Japan recently launches new 10M ocxo clock series : Ultimate clocks & Limited2 clocks. They are extremely hot items in Hong Kong now!
http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/ultimate1.html

Many of my audiophile friends got them already and commented that these new models gave much better performance than the old models.
However, the prices are much higher now.
One of my audiophile friend was mean and bought only the OP17 model, whereas most of the other friends got the top OP20 model.
(Please refer to the above-mentioned Japanese website for their diff specifications.)
Their main diff is just 3 dBc/hz of phase noise at 1 Hz but there is a price diff of around 40%!

A very cruel shootout was performed 2 days ago : Cybershaft Ultimate 10M Clocks OP20 vs OP17 !


The 10M clock in use at the back was an OP20 ; The one standing-by at the front was an OP17 :

Cybershaft op20 vs op17.jpg

The two 10M clocks were tested on the CH Precision C1 DAC which had been installed its optional Clock Input Card.
We found that the best configuration of Cybershaft 10M clock for the C1 DAC were : high-output and 75 ohm output.

The shootout result can be summarized in a few words : There was a night-&-day difference in sonic performance!

Compared to an older Cybershaft model of Op14, the newer Ultimate OP17 gave incremental improvement in sonic performance。

However OP20 gave a quantum leap) !
OP20 is in a completely different league!
o_O


Similar to other bands/models of audiophile clocks, the effect of Cybershaft Ultimate Clocks are to make the sound more focused, give higher resolution and higher agility/micro-dynamics.

The effect of OP17 was like cleaning a glass window thoroughly, making it spotless & dustless.
But the effect of OP20 seemed like to have removed the glass window completely. The audiences were then inside the concert venue and the images there seemed to be real/touchable!

The friends and I after the shootout concluded that if the budget is tight, get an OP13/14.
But for top level DAC such as top models of Esoteric or dCS, please consider "one step to heaven" and get the OP20! It's unbelievable!
;)
 

Taiko Audio

Active Member
Feb 10, 2017
435
221
43
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
#2
Nice report, this may be of influence:

[OP 17, OP 18] TAU = 0.1 sec 4.5 E-13 or less (0.00045 ppb / s) TAU = 1 sec 6.0 E- 13 below (0.00060Ppb / S)
[OP19, OP20] TAU = 0.1Sec 3.8E-13 or less (0.00038ppb / s) TAU = 1sec 5.5E-13 or less (0.00055Ppb / S)
 
Last edited:

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
1,135
251
83
Hong Kong
#3
Nice report, this may be of influence:
[OP 17, OP 18] TAU = 0.1 sec 4.5 E-13 or less (0.00045 ppb / s) TAU = 1 sec 6.0 E- 13 below (0.00060Ppb / S)
[OP19, OP20] TAU = 0.1Sec 3.8E-13 or less (0.00038ppb / s) TAU = 1sec 5.5E-13 or less (0.00055Ppb / S)
Hello Emile,

Cybershaft, likes most other Japanese hi-end manufacturers, are very meticulous in making their products.
Each of their 10M clocks come with their own measurement report.

Here are the reports of the two Ultimate 10M clocks used for the shootout :

Cybershaft Ultimate OP20 vs OP17.jpg
 

Taiko Audio

Active Member
Feb 10, 2017
435
221
43
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
#4
This is something interesting to consider :)

046E9DE8-055B-4266-B3F3-EA0C6E52E72B.jpeg
 

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
1,135
251
83
Hong Kong
#5
This is something interesting to consider :)
View attachment 45058
Hello Emile,
CH Precision C1 dac is quite popular in Hong Kong.
I have 4 good friends using it so I have listened to it uncountable times.

IMHO C1 dac+Cybershaft OP20 gives one of the best two performance I have ever auditioned.
The other memorable performance was when C1 was paired with the CH Precision T1 clock.

I hope that I can have chance to compare Cybershaft OP20 vs CH Precision T1 vs Esoteric Grandioso G1 in future! :)

BTW do have the specifications of T1 and G1?
If feasible please educate us on how to interpret these measurements.
Many thanks!
 
Last edited:

Taiko Audio

Active Member
Feb 10, 2017
435
221
43
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
#6
BTW do have the specifications of T1 and G1?
If feasible please educate us on how to interpret these measurements.
Many thanks!
Oh I’m sorry I didn’t add commentary / context!

-My first post is from the Cybershaft specs showing, next to phasenoise, stability is a bit better too travelling up the OP line. Most are convinced stability can’t have an effect on sound, however in our tests, OCXO’s with better stability sound better then those with lower phase noise! I can’t offer an explanation as to why :)

-The second are not Cybershaft measurements but general OCXO measurements showing phasenoise Increasing by 30-40dB when it’s being submitted to vibrations. So the Cybershaft should be very sensitive to vibration control measures !
 

Taiko Audio

Active Member
Feb 10, 2017
435
221
43
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
#7
The numbers are pretty impressive, the best OCXO phasenoise I ever saw is 115dB/1Hz, and thats a DOCXO (Double Oven). This is a mean figure so I would guess they buy a whole lot and grade them, could be 120dB is only like 1 out of 100 which justifies the higher price.
 
Likes: CKKeung

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
1,135
251
83
Hong Kong
#8
The numbers are pretty impressive, the best OCXO phasenoise I ever saw is 115dB/1Hz, and thats a DOCXO (Double Oven). This is a mean figure so I would guess they buy a whole lot and grade them, could be 120dB is only like 1 out of 100 which justifies the higher price.
I guess so because all the OP20 is sold out currently.
Customers need to wait for Cybershaft to re-stock their inventory.
 

Taiko Audio

Active Member
Feb 10, 2017
435
221
43
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
#9
I guess so because all the OP20 is sold out currently.
Customers need to wait for Cybershaft to re-stock their inventory.
It wouldnt surprise me if there will be a permanent waiting list for these :)
 
Likes: CKKeung
#10
It seems that Kenji at Cybershaft has been VERY busy and he has just introduced several new products;

- an ULTIMATE version with frequency adjustment, high & low level output choice and THREE (3) outputs that via dip switches can
be set to output either 50 or 75 ohm impedance so I think this is the ultimate clock for your needs. It can be ordered in varying
OCXO levels from OP14 all the way up to OP20. For my money, I'd suggest OP17, 18, 19 or 20 but inventory on the 20 is noted
to be extremely low. It also uses several of the features in my OP21 custom build from a while back including the copper base
plate internally and other nifty features. This is a 3-output top of the line master clock that should meet the needs of many
people looking for 50-ohm or 75-ohm output in a reference class 10 Mhz device..

- a LIMITED2 version with frequency adjustment, high & low level output choice and ONE (1) output that via dip switch can
be set to output either 50 or 75 ohm impedance so I think this is the ultimate clock for your needs. It can be ordered in varying
OCXO levels from OP14 all the way up to OP20. For my money, I'd suggest OP17, 18, 19 or 20 but inventory on the 20 is noted
to be extremely low. It also uses several of the features in my OP21 custom build from a while back including the copper base
plate internally and other nifty features. This only has one output but has all the other new features...

I'm several years in with Cybershaft clocks in my system and have had my OP21 for some time now. I have owned and evaluated
several other top-end master clocks; not only for the money but also for the sound of the system, these are the best I have heard!
 

Taiko Audio

Active Member
Feb 10, 2017
435
221
43
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
#11
OP21? Is that an OP20 with added features? Or does it sport a -121dB /1Hz phasenoise ?
 
#12
OP21 is no longer obtainable and I took a used oscillator that Kenji rigorously tested to try this level. Here
are the specific test measurements;

1 Hz
-121.5 dBc/Hz
10 Hz
-136.5 dBc/Hz
100 Hz
-143.4 dBc/Hz
Calculator rms phase jitter 1Hz-100Hz
29 Fs

By way of comparison, a Cybershaft OP17 we tested in (and the system sounded amazing) in 2017 weighs in here;

1Hz
-117dBc/Hz
10 Mhz
-130 dBc/Hz
100 Hz
-140 dBc/Hz
Calculator rms phase jitter 1Hz-100Hz
53 fs

which is still miniscule in phase noise so taking an OP20 gets you very very close to OP21...
 
Likes: Taiko Audio

Taiko Audio

Active Member
Feb 10, 2017
435
221
43
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
#13
That is seriously impressive, I bet OP21 grade XO are as scarce as lottery winners.
 
Likes: CKKeung
#14
Good ones, yes, definitely!
 

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
1,135
251
83
Hong Kong
#15
It seems that Kenji at Cybershaft has been VERY busy and he has just introduced several new products;
- an ULTIMATE version
- a LIMITED2 version with three 10M outputs
Hello SCAudiophile,
The Cybershaft new product Distributor is ready to ship now :
http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/clockdist01.html

May I seek your advice on the performance/cost ratio and cost-effectivness on chosing the two options of either a 3-output Limited2 or the Ultimate+Distributor combo?

Many thanks!
 
#16
Yes, definitely,...always happy to play hookie from my real job to talk audio <LOL>!

Please send me a PM and we can trade phone#s...
 
#17
CKKeung,...I did not hear back from you so I'll answer your question here. If you need more than 1 output or will in the future, my advice would be to keep things simple and get the Limited2 with the highest OP level you can get and have the extra outputs all in the same box. The distributor is most useful when you already have a master clock and wish for high-quality splitting and distribution of its one 10 Mhz output to 50 or 75-ohm outputs.
 
Likes: CKKeung

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
1,135
251
83
Hong Kong
#18
CKKeung,...I did not hear back from you so I'll answer your question here. If you need more than 1 output or will in the future, my advice would be to keep things simple and get the Limited2 with the highest OP level you can get and have the extra outputs all in the same box. The distributor is most useful when you already have a master clock and wish for high-quality splitting and distribution of its one 10 Mhz output to 50 or 75-ohm outputs.
Sorry, I have been busy at work these few days. Forgotten. :)

Thanks for your advice on whether to get the multi-output Limited vs Distributor. :D
 

TLi

Member
May 27, 2016
90
80
18
#19
I got one of the last OP20's from Cybershaft in Limited2. The improvement in sound was larger than expected. Although I already listened to the effect of OP20 in my friend place. The shock was very much still there when I installed OP20 in my system.

I am lucky to get OP20 with 1Hz phase noise in -120.9dB. That is probably the most one can get close to OP21. Kenji probably saved the best due last. IMAG2475.jpg
 
Likes: CKKeung
#20
The OP20s that he's offered lately are so close to OP21 in terms of their performance at 1Hz, 10Hz and 100Khz and their overall extremely low jitter as a result that frankly I'd say you are not missing anything with an OP20 compared to an OP21 properly curated. The 1Hz spec is important but the 10Hz and 100Hz numbers of -139.6 and -147.4 (dBc/Hz) are huge in their impact. The effective jitter of that unit is probably well under 75 fs and quit probably much lower which puts you in very rarefied air/music-space :) !!! I don't think even the Sforzato BVA enabled world reference for this sort of device can beat that so you should/will be extremely happy once it all warms up fully!
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. A place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss existing and new audio products, music servers, music streamers and computer audio, digital to audio convertors (DACS), turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel to reel, speakers, headphones, tube amplifiers and solid state amplification. Founded in 2010 What's Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing