Re-imagining "Class A" Amplification

[lscangus]

Happy New Years all!

Just spent some time getting the Nanocon triggers up and running. Just had full success with my monoblocks, so wanted to report - @viola in case you find some of this useful.

I ordered male and female Nanocon connectors from Mouser -
NSC3M Neutrik | Mouser
NSC3F Neutrik | Mouser

I got a 12V small brick from Amazon:
Amazon.com: GuanTing Universal AC Adapter 12V 2A Power Supply Charger 24W AC110V to DC12V 2000mA 1500mA 1000mA 500mA Power Driver 8 DC Plug Tips 12 Volt Converter Inverter Transformer ac dc Adapter(DC12V~2A) : Automotive

These DC socket to pigtails were useful too:
Amazon.com: 12V DC Power Pigtail Cable,3.3FT 18AWG DC 5.5mm x 2.1mm Female Plug to Bare Wire Open End Power Wire,for 12V DC 5521 Power Wire Supply Repair Cable(2Pcs) : Electronics

I used a 26G 2 conductor (you don't need 3 wire per Angus) from Amazon:
26 Gauge 2 Conductor Electrical Wire 26AWG Electrical Wire Stranded PVC Cord Oxygen-free copper Cable 32.8FT/10M Flexible Low Voltage LED Cable for LED Strips Lamps Lighting Automotive(26/2AWG-32.8FT): Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement

I also have a RadioRA2 system in my house, so I used a contact closure device that I can now link into Alexa "Alexa, turn on amplifiers"
Lutron LMJ-CCO1-24-B RF Dimming CCO Module | PROLIGHTING

To power the LMJ-CCO1 (only for Lutron RadioRA2 users) I used this 24V brick:
Amazon.com: 12V DC Power Pigtail Cable,3.3FT 18AWG DC 5.5mm x 2.1mm Female Plug to Bare Wire Open End Power Wire,for 12V DC 5521 Power Wire Supply Repair Cable(2Pcs) : Electronics

I hooked up the +12V from the 12VDC PSU to the red wire on the 26G wire. Ground on the 12VDC PSU went to the NO terminal on the LMJ-CCO1. Ground (black wire) from the 26G wire went back to the COM terminal on the LMJ-CCO1. These will vary according to your contact closure device, of course.

I didn't see @lscangus ' instructions to use the female connector, so I ended up using the male Nanocon connector for my first wire set. That worked great! The REI monoblock turned on and off reliably. Red +12V was connected to PIN2 on the nanocon and Ground was on PIN1 (the single one at the bottom). The plastic blocks are actually printed with very small 1, 2, 3 numbers on the Nanocon but you have to really squint.

Now this is where I ran into issues. I made up a daisy-chain cable as I understood it, using female - female Nanocon, Pin1 ground connected to Pin1 ground, Pin2 hot connected to Pin2 hot.
The first monoblock directly connected to the LMJ worked great to turn on, but the second one did not. I swapped cables around so that the main cable from the LMJ was going to the other monoblock; this monoblock now turned on, but the daisy chained one did not.

Now I thought, maybe it was because the daisy chained monoblock did not like the female connector. So I swapped my daisy chain cable end to male, i.e. now female to male.
No luck. Still did not work. I checked continuity and shorts with my ohmmeter each time, all pins tested as they should. It was 2am on New Years, so I gave up.

This morning I decided to just fork two parallel cables from the main cable running from the home automation closure device. Male Nanocons at each end. This finally worked and I now have reliable switch on/off of both the REIs together! Woohoo!

Thanks @lscangus for your advice. Not sure why daisy chain does not work, but I'll worry about that once I have bridged sets
P.S. The REIs have both male and female Nanocon connectors at the back. Not sure if they are any different, but as noted above the male cables were the only ones that worked for me, unclear why. Certainly I could have messed up which was "pin 2" on the female connector but i did it according to the same Neutrik scheme/diagram/block numbers as the male one.

I posted these pics of my current system/room in the Taiko systems thread, but reposting here too! You can see the REIs peeking out from behind the center table between the speakers.

Very nice setup and thank you for sharing. The input of the trigger has a Male socket ( not plug ) and the output of the trigger has a Female socket, so to daisy chain the trigger you will connect a male to female ( plug ) from the master to the salve. The Male plug of the connector can be quite tricky as you need to insert the pin into the plastic holder of the connector ( and they are very tiny ) and sometimes when the pin is not pushed "in" enough, it can cause a contact issue. You have a working setup, so dont worry about it for now and enjoy the music!

Gary and I will get you some cables for the trigger when you decide to upgrade to the bridged set in the future =]

 

[seatrope]

Very nice setup and thank you for sharing. The input of the trigger has a Male socket ( not plug ) and the output of the trigger has a Female socket, so to daisy chain the trigger you will connect a male to female ( plug ) from the master to the salve. The Male plug of the connector can be quite tricky as you need to insert the pin into the plastic holder of the connector ( and they are very tiny ) and sometimes when the pin is not pushed "in" enough, it can cause a contact issue. You have a working setup, so dont worry about it for now and enjoy the music!

Gary and I will get you some cables for the trigger when you decide to upgrade to the bridged set in the future =]

Thanks Angus @lscangus !

I wonder now if my mistake was sending the initial trigger with a male plug to female socket of the first monoblock then. Which means that the initial input was going to the "output" female trigger socket, so the daisy chain doesn't work if the female socket is only for output.

I'll leave it alone for now since it's working, as you say Thank you again, and the REIs are sounding fantastic, as you promised, none of this affects the sound quality.

Yeang

 

[viola]

The trigger input of the Rei has a male socket, so you will need a female plug for it.

Angus, Many thanks for your very prompt response. I will work on this when I have some time over the next few weeks.

@seatrope, Thank you also for your very detailed description of what you did. My task will be a bit easier as I am just wiring 12V trigger outputs on my preamp to the inputs on the Reis.

 

[gleeds]

All, a quick photo of our newest WestminsterLab retail partners main system. I think the silver clashes with the gold so I suggested he move his wonderful darTZeel electronics to his other rack

Our best wishes for the New Year to all our owners and followers from Angus and me! And our thanks and well wishes to Steve, Ron and Julian for providing a welcoming forum and place to let folks know about WestminsterLab.

PS Our next show will be at Axpona teaming with VonSchweikert and their remarkable Ultra 7s and VR-55 Mk2s, and our friends at Lampizator highlighting just how good their new Poseidon DAC is regardless of it's relatively modest price point.

 

[viola]

Sorry for the late reply. We use the Neutrik nanoCON connector for the trigger. The trigger signal needs to be at 12V ( Pin 1 GND, Pin 2 12V ) and it needs around 100ma. You can create a custom cable from your automation system to control the on/off of the Rei.

In terms of sound quality, we have designed these trigger inputs to be completely isolated from the unit, even the ground! Hence the higher than usual current needed.

Angus,
The trigger output from my preamp is 18vdc @ 10mA. I assume this is insufficient to trigger the Rei (correct me if I am wrong), so I plan to use a solid-state relay to trigger a separate 12vdc power source into the Rei such as the Jameco 12vdc @ 0.5mA wall wart that would be split between the two monoblocks. (see SPECIFICATION FOR APPROVAL (jameco.com)) Two questions: (1) What is the ideal (and maximum) current for triggering each Rei mono block (is it the 100mA minimum); and (2) Is a lower quality 12V power source such as the referenced Jameco unit OK to use? I assume from your post above -- explaining the complete isolation of the trigger circuit on the Rei -- that a low-quality wall wart would not have any adverse effect on sound quality.

By the way, I pinch myself every time I turn on the Reis. I have owned them for about 18 months now, and I still find it hard to believe that such a natural, clean and wonderful presentation comes out of these small amplifiers. I'm glad that others are having the same enjoyment I've experienced.

 

[seatrope]

Angus,
The trigger output from my preamp is 18vdc @ 10mA. I assume this is insufficient to trigger the Rei (correct me if I am wrong), so I plan to use a solid-state relay to trigger a separate 12vdc power source into the Rei such as the Jameco 12vdc @ 0.5mA wall wart that would be split between the two monoblocks. (see SPECIFICATION FOR APPROVAL (jameco.com)) Two questions: (1) What is the ideal (and maximum) current for triggering each Rei mono block (is it the 100mA minimum); and (2) Is a lower quality 12V power source such as the referenced Jameco unit OK to use? I assume from your post above -- explaining the complete isolation of the trigger circuit on the Rei -- that a low-quality wall wart would not have any adverse effect on sound quality.

By the way, I pinch myself every time I turn on the Reis. I have owned them for about 18 months now, and I still find it hard to believe that such a natural, clean and wonderful presentation comes out of these small amplifiers. I'm glad that others are having the same enjoyment I've experienced.

I have been using the cheapo Amazon wall wart I linked above without any perceptible adverse effects. One data point but hope that helps.

 

[SeagoatLeo]

Gary Leeds of Hear This has been gracious in guiding me to achieving a high end music listening system for about one year now. He encouraged my two major equipment selections to be finally be purchased as funds permitted. I added the EAR 912 preamplifier I wanted for over 20 years and as of Friday, the Von Schweikert VR9 SE Mk2 speakers. Both Gary and Damon Von Schweikert eagerly accommodated me by setting up a listening session with the speaker using my EAR 912 and Gary's Westminster Lab REI mono amplifiers. While I cannot purchase the Westminster Lab amps at this time, they were remarkable in their power, neutrality, tone density and ability to take the VR9 to the precipice of the Ultra 9 and Ultra 11 I have raved about at two audio shows (the ultimate speakers after hearing maybe 500 showroom setups over 2 decades). The amps mated perfectly with my 912.

Besides the preamp and speakers, Gary has found inexpensive ancillary audio gear which have high end capabilities when appropriately mated to high end main equipment. We agree on the many factors which develop and detract from achieving natural acoustic sound reproduction.

It has been a great pleasure working with both Gary and Damon. Gary and I share a broad range of musical tastes as well. Music performance and listening are essential to my life. I chose the Von Schweikert speakers because they reproduce music as it was recorded and the ability to share the music with friends and family with it's superior dispersion while maintaining correct image size. Gary has been very helpful in obtaining the best reproduction equipment I can afford. I look forward to working with him on future audio equipment purchases.

 

[gleeds]

Gary Leeds of Hear This has been gracious in guiding me to achieving a high end music listening system for about one year now. He encouraged my two major equipment selections to be finally be purchased as funds permitted. I added the EAR 912 preamplifier I wanted for over 20 years and as of Friday, the Von Schweikert VR9 SE Mk2 speakers. Both Gary and Damon Von Schweikert eagerly accommodated me by setting up a listening session with the speaker using my EAR 912 and Gary's Westminster Lab REI mono amplifiers. While I cannot purchase the Westminster Lab amps at this time, they were remarkable in their power, neutrality, tone density and ability to take the VR9 to the precipice of the Ultra 9 and Ultra 11 I have raved about at two audio shows (the ultimate speakers after hearing maybe 500 showroom setups over 2 decades). The amps mated perfectly with my 912.

Besides the preamp and speakers, Gary has found inexpensive ancillary audio gear which have high end capabilities when appropriately mated to high end main equipment. We agree on the many factors which develop and detract from achieving natural acoustic sound reproduction.

It has been a great pleasure working with both Gary and Damon. Gary and I share a broad range of musical tastes as well. Music performance and listening are essential to my life. I chose the Von Schweikert speakers because they reproduce music as it was recorded and the ability to share the music with friends and family with it's superior dispersion while maintaining correct image size. Gary has been very helpful in obtaining the best reproduction equipment I can afford. I look forward to working with him on future audio equipment purchases.

Steven, thank you for your gracious comments. I'm excited for you to receive your VR9's. You are a music lover extraordinaire who has introduced me to some incredible music I otherwise would never have experienced. Again thank you.

 

[Popspin]

This post has been a long time coming. I’m just a infrequent, hesitant poster.
2023 was a seminal year for my system. Along the way, while searching for my ultimate amplifier solution I found Westminster’s MSB DC umbilical cables. At the FL Audio Expo I found Fred and his Westminster amps. I also met Gary from whom I had purchased the DC cables. They are awesome. Plain and simple. The difference they make is significant and I wouldn’t be without them. So then I heard the amps! Very pleasing to my old ears through the Von Schweikert’s. I liked their sound, size, cooler operation and technology, as best I could understand it. I knew I needed to hear them in my system.
Gary did an excellent job getting all the required equipment, cables, etc to Fred and Rob for my in-home demo of bridged Rei’s. I think it was their 1st in-home demo of the bridged configuration.
Fred and Rob did a great job installing the amps so they looked like they belonged in my system.
Performance, as noted by others, boggles the mind. You look at the amps, listen to the music and have to ask “how did they do this?” My system never sounded better. I missed the amps when I returned to my Ayre MX-R Twenty’s. In fact I became irritated at the Ayre’s shortcomings because I now knew what the Rei’s could do. In my system.
The purpose of my post is not to get too technical but to make others aware that the Rei’s are the real deal. If you are interested in a new amp(s) you NEED to demo the Rei’s.
I eventually made a different choice because of a 45+ year relationship with a local dealer, and an offer I couldn’t refuse. But that decision, in no way, was made because there was anything I didn’t like about the Rei’s. I have only positive feelings about the amps.
I Hope Westminster has great success with these as more audiophiles have the opportunity to hear them, both bridged (my fav) or in-bridged.

 

[lscangus]

Angus,
The trigger output from my preamp is 18vdc @ 10mA. I assume this is insufficient to trigger the Rei (correct me if I am wrong), so I plan to use a solid-state relay to trigger a separate 12vdc power source into the Rei such as the Jameco 12vdc @ 0.5mA wall wart that would be split between the two monoblocks. (see SPECIFICATION FOR APPROVAL (jameco.com)) Two questions: (1) What is the ideal (and maximum) current for triggering each Rei mono block (is it the 100mA minimum); and (2) Is a lower quality 12V power source such as the referenced Jameco unit OK to use? I assume from your post above -- explaining the complete isolation of the trigger circuit on the Rei -- that a low-quality wall wart would not have any adverse effect on sound quality.

By the way, I pinch myself every time I turn on the Reis. I have owned them for about 18 months now, and I still find it hard to believe that such a natural, clean and wonderful presentation comes out of these small amplifiers. I'm glad that others are having the same enjoyment I've experienced.

Hello, sorry for my late reply, 18V DC is absolutely a no no and It will potentially fry the control system.

1.The Rei will draw 100ma from the source, it will self regulate the current.
2.We did quite a bit of work to isolate the trigger source, the power / ground is completely separate from the Rei. But a lesser quality wall wart can potentially pollute your audio system's power source as they are all in parallel to each other.

I am happy and delighted to hear that you are in love with the Rei.

 

[gleeds]

This post has been a long time coming. I’m just a infrequent, hesitant poster.
2023 was a seminal year for my system. Along the way, while searching for my ultimate amplifier solution I found Westminster’s MSB DC umbilical cables. At the FL Audio Expo I found Fred and his Westminster amps. I also met Gary from whom I had purchased the DC cables. They are awesome. Plain and simple. The difference they make is significant and I wouldn’t be without them. So then I heard the amps! Very pleasing to my old ears through the Von Schweikert’s. I liked their sound, size, cooler operation and technology, as best I could understand it. I knew I needed to hear them in my system.
Gary did an excellent job getting all the required equipment, cables, etc to Fred and Rob for my in-home demo of bridged Rei’s. I think it was their 1st in-home demo of the bridged configuration.
Fred and Rob did a great job installing the amps so they looked like they belonged in my system.
Performance, as noted by others, boggles the mind. You look at the amps, listen to the music and have to ask “how did they do this?” My system never sounded better. I missed the amps when I returned to my Ayre MX-R Twenty’s. In fact I became irritated at the Ayre’s shortcomings because I now knew what the Rei’s could do. In my system.
The purpose of my post is not to get too technical but to make others aware that the Rei’s are the real deal. If you are interested in a new amp(s) you NEED to demo the Rei’s.
I eventually made a different choice because of a 45+ year relationship with a local dealer, and an offer I couldn’t refuse. But that decision, in no way, was made because there was anything I didn’t like about the Rei’s. I have only positive feelings about the amps.
I Hope Westminster has great success with these as more audiophiles have the opportunity to hear them, both bridged (my fav) or in-bridged.

Bob, Angus, Fred Rob and I can't thank you enough for your positive feedback on the Westminster amplifier and MSB DC cables. I enjoyed our time together and seeing who could stump who on audio gear from past decades. I have to say you got me on I believe some speakers you had in your office I had not heard of! I hope you're enjoying your system and look forward to coming to Westchester to listen to music with you next time I'm back east. Thanks again for the opportunity and for the kind words.

 

[viola]

Hello, sorry for my late reply, 18V DC is absolutely a no no and It will potentially fry the control system.

1.The Rei will draw 100ma from the source, it will self regulate the current.
2.We did quite a bit of work to isolate the trigger source, the power / ground is completely separate from the Rei. But a lesser quality wall wart can potentially pollute your audio systems power source as they are all in parallel to each other.

I am happy and delighted to hear that you are in love with the Rei.

Angus (and Seatrope for your earlier response),

Thanks so much for your feedback. I thought that 18v would be too high (and the 10mA current too low and insufficient for me to step down the voltage to 12vdc), so I will use a higher quality wall wart such as the Jameco unit in my earlier post to generate 12vdc at 500mA triggered by my preamp 18vdc 10mA trigger output into a solid-state relay. While not as low noise as a linear power supply, the Jameco unit generates much less noise than other wall warts.

 

[Zappadaddy]

Seoul Audio Show

In good company: the "small and mighty" Westminster Labs Rei mono amplifiers and Quest pre-amp with Aires Cerat, AlysVox, and Pink Fawn.


View attachment 90293

Oh, could you describe the sound difference Aries cerat vs Westminsterlab please. It interests me very much

 

[gleeds]

Oh, could you describe the sound difference Aries cerat vs Westminsterlab please. It interests me very much

ZappaDaddy, unfortunately I do not have direct experience with Aires Cerat but do know they enjoy an excellent reputation. I can say that the Westminster amplifiers will give you much of the liquidity of great tube amplifiers along with deep separation (aka black space) between voices and instruments, natural scale, fantastic dynamics and control, as well as the finest bass texture of any amplifier available.

You may want to experiment pairing an Aires Cerat balanced preamplifier with the Westminster Rei amplifiers if you want more of that tube glow. That said the Quest is among the lowest noise preamplifiers on the market, mates perfectly with the Rei's and is exceptionally detailed and dynamic with no trace of the whiteness found in many modern solid-state preamplifiers. I hope that helps and look forward to hearing more about your listening experiments.

 

[Zappadaddy]

ZappaDaddy, unfortunately I do not have direct experience with Aires Cerat but do know they enjoy an excellent reputation. I can say that the Westminster amplifiers will give you much of the liquidity of great tube amplifiers along with deep separation (aka black space) between voices and instruments, natural scale, fantastic dynamics and control, as well as the finest bass texture of any amplifier available.

You may want to experiment pairing an Aires Cerat balanced preamplifier with the Westminster Rei amplifiers if you want more of that tube glow. That said the Quest is among the lowest noise preamplifiers on the market, mates perfectly with the Rei's and is exceptionally detailed and dynamic with no trace of the whiteness found in many modern solid-state preamplifiers. I hope that helps and look forward to hearing more about your listening experiments.

Thanks, I have tested WL already in setup with Tannoy, and they proved to be the best amplification I have heard in my system to this date. Do you know who is the owner/seller of the setup in the picture you posted it in above?

 

[gleeds]

Thanks, I have tested WL already in setup with Tannoy, and they proved to be the best amplification I have heard in my system to this date. Do you know who is the owner/seller of the setup in the picture you posted it in above?

If you mean the most recent photo including darTZeel in the photo this is one of our dealers listening rooms.

 

[Zappadaddy]

If you mean the most recent photo including darTZeel in the photo this is one of our dealers listening rooms.

 

[KeithR]

This post has been a long time coming. I’m just a infrequent, hesitant poster.
2023 was a seminal year for my system. Along the way, while searching for my ultimate amplifier solution I found Westminster’s MSB DC umbilical cables. At the FL Audio Expo I found Fred and his Westminster amps. I also met Gary from whom I had purchased the DC cables. They are awesome. Plain and simple. The difference they make is significant and I wouldn’t be without them. So then I heard the amps! Very pleasing to my old ears through the Von Schweikert’s. I liked their sound, size, cooler operation and technology, as best I could understand it. I knew I needed to hear them in my system.
Gary did an excellent job getting all the required equipment, cables, etc to Fred and Rob for my in-home demo of bridged Rei’s. I think it was their 1st in-home demo of the bridged configuration.
Fred and Rob did a great job installing the amps so they looked like they belonged in my system.
Performance, as noted by others, boggles the mind. You look at the amps, listen to the music and have to ask “how did they do this?” My system never sounded better. I missed the amps when I returned to my Ayre MX-R Twenty’s. In fact I became irritated at the Ayre’s shortcomings because I now knew what the Rei’s could do. In my system.
The purpose of my post is not to get too technical but to make others aware that the Rei’s are the real deal. If you are interested in a new amp(s) you NEED to demo the Rei’s.
I eventually made a different choice because of a 45+ year relationship with a local dealer, and an offer I couldn’t refuse. But that decision, in no way, was made because there was anything I didn’t like about the Rei’s. I have only positive feelings about the amps.
I Hope Westminster has great success with these as more audiophiles have the opportunity to hear them, both bridged (my fav) or in-bridged.

Thanks for the update! I would love to hear more about the differences between the REIs and the MX-R Twenties - Charlie was a hall of fame designer and I tried out a VX-5 years ago.

I've had my REIs going for 3 months, can't say I have any urge to try another amp. And I'm an amp dude with probably 20 over the past 3-4 years.

 

[seatrope]

Thanks for the update! I would love to hear more about the differences between the REIs and the MX-R Twenties - Charlie was a hall of fame designer and I tried out a VX-5 years ago.

I've had my REIs going for 3 months, can't say I have any urge to try another amp. And I'm an amp dude with probably 20 over the past 3-4 years.

Seconded. The REIs have checked every box and boxes I didn’t know exist

 

[TheAudioAssociation]

Hello Folks...

Popping by to say "Hello". We are excited to announce that we are proudly representing WestminsterLab! Let us know if we can help you achieve your audio end game goals with any of Angus' amazing units.

I second all of the comments regarding all of the "box checking" WL does. I've heard many electronic lines over the years and this is something special!