Question for Bruce: Do AES cables beat SPDIF for digital audio transmission?

Lee

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Just curious what your view on this is and your experience...?

Also, are there any particular brands you favor for good quality transmission?
 

Bruce B

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Short answer..... AES cables beat SPDIF for digital EVERY TIME. I'm no engineer so I can't give you the specifics. Maybe it's the balanced design of AES. They can also carry clock signal. It's a constant 110 ohm and we use them for every IC cable we use, even analog signals.
 

ack

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Part of it is actually the much wider bandwidth of the AES/EBU interface. I've always used that.
 

Lee

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Short answer..... AES cables beat SPDIF for digital EVERY TIME. I'm no engineer so I can't give you the specifics. Maybe it's the balanced design of AES. They can also carry clock signal. It's a constant 110 ohm and we use them for every IC cable we use, even analog signals.

Part of it is actually the much wider bandwidth of the AES/EBU interface. I've always used that.

Very helpful guys, thanks.
 

Lee

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So I tried the Apogee Wyde Eye AES digital cable today. Worked very well. Another level of sound.

Is this one good value for the money or is there a specific brand I should look for?

I also tried the DH Labs Silversonic AES but it was terrible compared to the Wyde Eye.
 

ack

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So I tried the Apogee Wyde Eye AES digital cable today. Worked very well. Another level of sound.

Is this one good value for the money or is there a specific brand I should look for?

I also tried the DH Labs Silversonic AES but it was terrible compared to the Wyde Eye.

It's a crapshoot really. But I use the venerable Kimber Illuminations Orchid. The Berkeley alpha folks recommend the Straightwire of all brands.
 

Lee

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It's a crapshoot really. But I use the venerable Kimber Illuminations Orchid. The Berkeley alpha folks recommend the Straightwire of all brands.

Good info, thanks.
 

microstrip

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Short answer..... AES cables beat SPDIF for digital EVERY TIME. I'm no engineer so I can't give you the specifics. Maybe it's the balanced design of AES. They can also carry clock signal. It's a constant 110 ohm and we use them for every IC cable we use, even analog signals.

Bruce,
Can I ask you which brands and types you use?
 

Lee

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Bruce B

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<$ = CAT 5E for runs under 100 feet

I thought we were talking about AES/SPDIF cables. I too have hundreds of feet of CAT 5e and CAT 6 cable that I use. I also use $ 0.25 /ft. AT&T ST-optical cable at hundreds of feet. In certain situations, you can get away with dirt cheap connections.
 

microstrip

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$$$ = JPS Labs Aluminata
$ = Mogami Gold

Thanks.

Devialet use AES digital inputs in their amplifiers and when using multi-amplifier configurations a lot of them can be needed. Curiously in a strange configuration - the digital outputs are RCA, but they recommend connecting them to the AES XLR input of the slave amplifier using custom cables!
 

tailspn

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I thought we were talking about AES/SPDIF cables. I too have hundreds of feet of CAT 5e and CAT 6 cable that I use. I also use $ 0.25 /ft. AT&T ST-optical cable at hundreds of feet. In certain situations, you can get away with dirt cheap connections.

Hi Bruce,
We are. CAT 5E makes a fine AES/110 Ohm unshielded cable. The attenuation at 10MHz/100 Meters is about the same, (-7dB) and its capacitance about two thirds at 52pf/meter (which makes it easier to drive if used as unbalanced SPDIF). It's just a practical alternative to dedicated AES/EBU cable. But admittedly, not very audiophile, or pricey.
 
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Lee

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microstrip

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Hi Bruce,
We are. CAT 5E makes a fine AES/110 Ohm unshielded cable. The attenuation at 10MHz/100 Meters is about the same, (-7dB) and its capacitance about two thirds at 52pf/meter (which makes it easier to drive if used as unbalanced SPDIF). It's just a practical alternative to dedicated AES/EBU cable. But admittedly, not very audiophile, or pricey.


As far as I remember CAT 5E has an impedance of 100 ohm - it seems to me it is a too large mismatch to be recommended for AES.
 

tailspn

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As far as I remember CAT 5E has an impedance of 100 ohm - it seems to me it is a too large mismatch to be recommended for AES.

You are correct, it's characteristic impedance is 100 Ohm +/- 15%. But at the data rate that AES/EBU operates, and with its transitions times, it's not a real consideration.

http://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3250.pdf

Appendix 2, Page 19

CAT 5 cabling is used very broadly in studio wiring for its versatility in transmitting BALANCED data and BALANCED line level audio over the same infrastructure. An additional advantage of its use for AES/EBU Data is that one cable accommodates eight channels of data. CAT 5E has many technical advantages beyond its use as Ethernet, or other network cabling.
 
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microstrip

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(...)
CAT 5 cabling is used very broadly in studio wiring for its versatility in transmitting BALANCED data and BALANCED line level audio over the same infrastructure. An additional advantage of its use for AES/EBU Data is that one cable accommodates eight channels of data. CAT 5E has many technical advantages beyond its use as Ethernet, or other network cabling.

Yes, but as most of us are very concerned about jitter in WBF, it is very disturbing to know that such cables are being used by those who supply us with out recordings. As far as I know, some operations during mastering are still carried in the analogue domain. And we must hope that the sound engineers listen to the recordings at the best conditions when working on them! :)
 

edorr

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FWIW, Meridian is using CAT5 for speakerlink (digital) and also CAT5 to carry 6 channels of high rez audio between the HD621 and processor (using MHR), and it seems to be working just dandy.
 

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