Psvane Acme Series (new flagship series)

[spiritofmusic]

The original Elrogs were shockingly unreliable as well.

 

[DetroitVinylRob]

Also a shame

 

[JSA]

Guys, what makes you feel that quality from Linlai will be better than from PSvane?

I had plenty of faulty 805 T Reference Series, but they were always replaced at no extra cost, and sometimes even after warranty period.
I don't think it is right to condemn Psvane tubes. I think most of their tubes are quite ok and a valid alternative to NOS.
It is good Linlai is in the market now (I have just ordered 805 DG to compare to my ACME Psvane). I am sure there will be a reliable official Psvane dealer appointed in US soon. I think it is always good to have options and whether it is through same or another dealer - doesn't really matter.

We know only one side of the story on GF vs. Psvane - so difficult to judge really. Just my two cents

 

[spiritofmusic]

My issue is that my SETs are non self biasing, it's nearly a day's travel return visit to the one person in UK prepared to bias my amps.
I understand that would be the same headache on any device that fails, but it's a real palava on SETs that I have to rely on a third party to help with.

 

[Sandston]

I feel quite the opposite about the Linlai's. I am afraid it will take them awhile before their reliability is acceptable. My read on it was that all the less then optimal tubes end up at all these online retailers in China as well as on Ebay. What Grant did was rigorously test the tubes they recieved from them, rejecting the ones that didnt pass their more stringent QC. What it appears Rachel is saying in her reasons for disbanding their relationship is that Psvane never appeared to use the testing equipment Grant Fidelity bought so that Psvane could test the tubes on their end before shipping to Grant. She also appears to infer that quality seems to be dropping with the Acme release. This also seems to be the reason the Linlai team left as they were concerned about the lack or disintegration of quality. My guess has always been that the majority of people on this thread who have had problems with their Psvane tubes did not buy from Grant in the first place. Its tempting as a tube like the Acme 845 can be found for up to $400 less than at Grant. I would be curious to hear from those of you on this thread who have purchased Acme tubes, where they bought them from and if they had reliability issues. Either way I suspect Rachel will take the same approach to Linlai tubes as she did with Psvane, testing them rigorously before shipping them out.

 

[Sandston]

I contacted Rachel at Grant Fidelity regarding the Linlai E-Series and Psvane Acme 845 tubes. I wanted to share her response and my inquiry with the community.

Rachael
I was getting ready to upgrade my Psvane WE 845s for the new Acme tubes after reading a few of the early reviews. My WE are still going strong but it appears the Acmes are a step up according to reviews. I am intrigued by the Linlai E-Series but its low recommended operating point has given me pause as my amps run at a fixed bias quiet a bit above this point. I have also seen that you will no longer be supporting Psvane moving forward and as such I am uncertain that I want to support them either. Will Linlai be coming out with a more robust tube that will compete more directly with the Acme 845? I do not want to send my amps in to be modified to run the E-Series tube. I am considering buying a pair of the Acmes as you mention you will still be honoring the warranty on them unless you have some other advice. Regards,

S.,

What is the brand and model of your 845 amp? Some amps are known to us that will drive ACME845 to red plating and not recommended to use. Let me know your amp model then you don't repeat the issues others have encountered.

For Linlai E-845, the recommended range is just the 'sweet spot' range that factory engineers suggest, not the maximum rating. Keep in mind that Chinese audiophiles have a different listening preference than western audiophiles, due to different music composition and listening habits.

Linlai E-845 has higher tolerance of operating point than the mesh hybrid plate ACME845 and better reliability, for amps that drive tubes 'hard'. This is the advantage of the moly plate over the hybrid mesh/graphite plate on ACME tubes.

Linlai won't build a more robust 845 in the near future - E-845 is already the most robust of current production 845 tubes among all manufacturer brands already.

If I were you, I won't risk to take ACME845 at this point of time, not only for its susceptibility to red platting under high voltage, but also for future warranty issues. We won't be able to provide replacement when stock is returned to the factory then you are back to square one.

Best,
Rachel

 

[JSA]

I contacted Rachel at Grant Fidelity regarding the Linlai E-Series and Psvane Acme 845 tubes. I wanted to share her response and my inquiry with the community.

Rachael
I was getting ready to upgrade my Psvane WE 845s for the new Acme tubes after reading a few of the early reviews. My WE are still going strong but it appears the Acmes are a step up according to reviews. I am intrigued by the Linlai E-Series but its low recommended operating point has given me pause as my amps run at a fixed bias quiet a bit above this point. I have also seen that you will no longer be supporting Psvane moving forward and as such I am uncertain that I want to support them either. Will Linlai be coming out with a more robust tube that will compete more directly with the Acme 845? I do not want to send my amps in to be modified to run the E-Series tube. I am considering buying a pair of the Acmes as you mention you will still be honoring the warranty on them unless you have some other advice. Regards,

S.,

What is the brand and model of your 845 amp? Some amps are known to us that will drive ACME845 to red plating and not recommended to use. Let me know your amp model then you don't repeat the issues others have encountered.

For Linlai E-845, the recommended range is just the 'sweet spot' range that factory engineers suggest, not the maximum rating. Keep in mind that Chinese audiophiles have a different listening preference than western audiophiles, due to different music composition and listening habits.

Linlai E-845 has higher tolerance of operating point than the mesh hybrid plate ACME845 and better reliability, for amps that drive tubes 'hard'. This is the advantage of the moly plate over the hybrid mesh/graphite plate on ACME tubes.

Linlai won't build a more robust 845 in the near future - E-845 is already the most robust of current production 845 tubes among all manufacturer brands already.

If I were you, I won't risk to take ACME845 at this point of time, not only for its susceptibility to red platting under high voltage, but also for future warranty issues. We won't be able to provide replacement when stock is returned to the factory then you are back to square one.

Best,
Rachel

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and correspondence with Rachel.
I wouldn’t expect a different answer from a dealer who discontinues Psvane and goes for Linlai
I have purchased ACME 805 from certified dealer in Europe. I would not consider buying so expensive tubes directly from China and/or Alibaba. Too many customs issues and time lost in case of replacement under warranty.
Linlai 805 DG, there is no E series for 805 yet, I have purchased from original Linlai store on Aliexpress. I have got a very good deal from them and there is 15 months warranty.

 

[Sandston]

Agreed, Rachels answer is what you would expect to a degree and should be taken with grain of salt

 

[Kingrex]

What bothers me most about the ACME 845, is that it really was a lot better tube, sonically, than my Shuguang and Psvane Hifi tubes. My amps are almost broken sounding going back to Shuguang. My Linlai wont be at my house till around the 14th. I'm actually using my headphones more. Not as interested in firing up the 2 channel.

 

[spiritofmusic]

You're having the bitch of an experience I had back in 2012...going from the stock 845s in my Audion Black Shadows to the Elrogs, being stunned by the purity of sonics, and then crushed by their literal instability as they broke down three times in under nine months.

 

[JoeyGun]

Hmm, I wonder if this redplating pertains to only the Acme 845s since my ACME 300b has been solid. Any other Acme 300b owners want to chime in?

 

[Kingrex]

I'm eyeing Elrog ER845 on Partsconnection for $1700. Still a lot of $. The USA distributor says get the Elrog.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Is that the original Elrog, or Thomas Mayer/Elrog?

 

[Sandston]

Red plating is a bit of a misnomer on the 845 tubes. The Acme 845 has a hybrid plate with small sections of actual wire mesh. It's the mesh that is turning red on some tubes. From what I gather it's not bias dependent. Some tubes do it some don't. This mesh is a feature of the Acme 845. Maybe the 211 and 805. So this particular issue should not apply to the 300b. Psvane is telling grant fidelity it in no way effects the life of the tube. Rachel has her doubts as do I for that matter.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Is it a coincidence the Elrog 845s from several years ago were also so flaky?
The heating element was so much lower it made the top plate of my Audion Black Shadow SET into a literal griddle.

 

[Kingrex]

Adjusting the bias does affect how much the mesh plates glow red. Its more noticeable than on the photos. Left image is 97 watts. Right image is 87 watts at plate.

See below, better images

 

[Sandston]

Kingrex
What your current oppinion on the Acme 845's. I know you've been involved in this thread from the beginning so excuse if you've answered this before but was this your first pair of the Acmes or did you have them replaced? I believe I read somewhere that 86-87ma was the Psvane recommended operating point but I forget at what voltage. Can you share any opinions about where you feel they sound their best?

 

[Kingrex]

Top/left is 97, bottom/right is 87. Top is white hot. Bottom is pretty red hot.

 

[Kingrex]

Kingrex
What your current oppinion on the Acme 845's. I know you've been involved in this thread from the beginning so excuse if you've answered this before but was this your first pair of the Acmes or did you have them replaced? I believe I read somewhere that 86-87ma was the Psvane recommended operating point but I forget at what voltage. Can you share any opinions about where you feel they sound their best?

They were far better than any of the Shuguang tubes I have. There is a sense of calm and quiet with the ACME. The body and bass is much richer and full. But not puffy or bloated. I really liked the way it played.

Its a bummer the red plating. I just don't know if that is a normal mode of operation. It is disconcerting site. At $500 per tube, you want them to behave as expected. Since some people say they don't red plate and others say they do. It is a muddled and confused condition.

I did not hear any discernable sonic difference between backing the bias down to 87 watts on my Audion Black Shadow. The bass character was unchanged. It did not become softened and slower with less bias. I actually run my Shuguang at the lower bias as it does not appear to alter its sonics either. At least at low to moderate volume. I have not cranked it up. What I do see, with my laser heat probe, is a more stable temperature throughout either tube plate. At the higher bias point, the top of the tube can be 100 degree hotter than the bottom. At the lower bias its about 50 degree, and on the Shuguang a touch more centered.

 

[Kingrex]

I just pulled the trigger on the Elrog ER845.