Perjorative Words and Agendas

[mep]

In our ever-increasingly politically correct (PC) world with PC terms and words we have to use now in order to not be politically incorrect and incur the wrath of those who are taking away the concept and ability to exercise free speech, it just occurred to me based on a remark I made in another thread how PC is used to force agendas on the rest of us. For example, illegal immigration is a huge topic in the U.S. Once upon a time, illegal immigrants were referred to as illegal aliens. Well, people objected to the term "alien" which meant they might have come from outer space or something so "alien" was changed to "immigrant." Thus was born the term "illegal immigrant." So having changed the word "alien" to "immigrant", those with an agenda went for the word to the left of immigrant and said that using the term "illegal" was also not tolerable. So" illegal" has now morphed into "undocumented" because that sounds so much better and is one step closer to legitimizing something that is against the law.

To me, you are either in this country legally, or you are not. If you are not here legally, that means you are breaking the law by being here. If your purpose for being here is because you want to immigrate permanently, that probably means you would like to immigrate legally, but you simply can't for whatever reason at this point in your life. So that in my book makes you an illegal immigrant who would like to be a legal immigrant. Calling people "undocumented" infers some sort of legitimacy to their status when really there is none until the law is changed.

That's sort of like saying we have documented criminals and undocumented criminals. If you are a documented criminal, that means you have been caught, convicted, and sentenced for a crime and we have your pictures and fingerprints to go along with the rest of your documentation. Undocumented criminals are criminals who have committed crimes, but they have evaded capture and therefore haven't been documented yet. But if they have committed a crime and haven't been caught, convicted and sentenced, we really can't refer to them as undocumented criminals as that wouldn't be fair and could be hurtful to their feelings. Does that then make them undocumented refugees from justice?

 

[rockitman]

Ever wonder why democrats are in favor of amnesty ?

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

The smart ones immigrate to Canada where there is actually a social conscience.

 

[dingus]

In our ever-increasingly politically correct (PC) world with PC terms and words we have to use now in order to not be politically incorrect and incur the wrath of those who are taking away the concept and ability to exercise free speech, it just occurred to me based on a remark I made in another thread how PC is used to force agendas on the rest of us. For example, illegal immigration is a huge topic in the U.S. Once upon a time, illegal immigrants were referred to as illegal aliens. Well, people objected to the term "alien" which meant they might have come from outer space or something so "alien" was changed to "immigrant." Thus was born the term "illegal immigrant." So having changed the word "alien" to "immigrant", those with an agenda went for the word to the left of immigrant and said that using the term "illegal" was also not tolerable. So" illegal" has now morphed into "undocumented" because that sounds so much better and is one step closer to legitimizing something that is against the law.

To me, you are either in this country legally, or you are not. If you are not here legally, that means you are breaking the law by being here. If your purpose for being here is because you want to immigrate permanently, that probably means you would like to immigrate legally, but you simply can't for whatever reason at this point in your life. So that in my book makes you an illegal immigrant who would like to be a legal immigrant. Calling people "undocumented" infers some sort of legitimacy to their status when really there is none until the law is changed.

That's sort of like saying we have documented criminals and undocumented criminals. If you are a documented criminal, that means you have been caught, convicted, and sentenced for a crime and we have your pictures and fingerprints to go along with the rest of your documentation. Undocumented criminals are criminals who have committed crimes, but they have evaded capture and therefore haven't been documented yet. But if they have committed a crime and haven't been caught, convicted and sentenced, we really can't refer to them as undocumented criminals as that wouldn't be fair and could be hurtful to their feelings. Does that then make them undocumented refugees from justice?

ok, so what? i can agree with the basic premise of your argument, but i'm not getting your point.

 

[DaveyF]

The smart ones immigrate to Canada where there is actually a social conscience.

+1

BTW, we have FINALLY just had the Supreme Court confirm something that IMHO shouldn't have even been up for discussion...a disgraceful law against a minority ( in this case Gays) gets to be found NOT legal. What still concerns me is that the decision was by a 5 to 4 vote and NOT unanimously in favor!

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

+1

BTW, we have FINALLY just had the Supreme Court confirm something that IMHO shouldn't have even been up for discussion...a disgraceful law against a minority ( in this case Gays) gets to be found NOT legal. What still concerns me is that the decision was by a 5 to 4 vote and NOT unanimously in favor!

Pretty obvious to me that the U.S. Supreme Court is a body not guided by law and justice, but instead by party affiliation.

 

[mep]

ok, so what? i can agree with the basic premise of your argument, but i'm not getting your point.

Fair enough. I guess my point is that there is no such thing as PC without having an agenda behind it and the agenda is always much deeper than the word change. The example I used of illegal aliens shows changing words changes the mindset of how people think of the issue/problem until we are suddenly just a word away from completely legitimizing that which isn't. "Alien" morphed into "immigrant," "illegal" morphed into "undocumented," and now we just need to drop the word "undocumented" and suddenly they have become just immigrants.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Immigration is a very complex issue. The USA were built by immigrants. The USA continue to accept immigrants at a greater rate than any other place in the world.TO put this in perspective, in 2006 the USA accepted more legal immigrants in their country than ALL other countries in the world combined ...

At the sme time there is no doubt that there are a great number of people that have remained in the USA in an ilegal fashion. Aside from this fact the vast majority of these people are law abiding and contribute to the wealth of the USA at large. Idn;t it fair to find a way for these people to remain in the country that has become theirs, for which they have worked and paid their dues? Where they ave their children, their future, their lives in a word where they have invested their hope and lives and in many case paid dearly for it?
It is very easy to stay from a distance and forget how many of us came to be Americans ... Many of our grandparents entry in the USA nd their subsequent stay was at the very limit of legality if legal at all... Let's not forget the notion of "indentured servants" or how much immigrants blood have build this country ... A way to make integrate those who have contributed to the general welfare is not only just but an intelligent strategy of keeping the country vibrant and fresh with new blood ... Of all the to 5 or 10 wealthiest countries the USA may well be the only country growing at an healthy rate, that comes from immigration ... "Illegal Aiens" or "immigrants" however way we term it they deserve a fair chance to enjoy the fruits of their labor

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Hi

Immigration is a very complex issue. The USA were built by immigrants. The USA continue to accept immigrants at a greater rate than any other place in the world.TO put this in perspective, in 2006 the USA accepted more legal immigrants in their country than ALL other countries in the world combined ...

At the sme time there is no doubt that there are a great number of people that have remained in the USA in an ilegal fashion. Aside from this fact the vast majority of these people are law abiding and contribute to the wealth of the USA at large. Idn;t it fair to find a way for these people to remain in the country that has become theirs, for which they have worked and paid their dues? Where they ave their children, their future, their lives in a word where they have invested their hope and lives and in many case paid dearly for it?
It is very easy to stay from a distance and forget how many of us came to be Americans ... Many of our grandparents entry in the USA nd their subsequent stay was at the very limit of legality if legal at all... Let's not forget the notion of "indentured servants" or how much immigrants blood have build this country ... A way to make integrate those who have contributed to the general welfare is not only just but an intelligent strategy of keeping the country vibrant and fresh with new blood ... Of all the to 5 or 10 wealthiest countries the USA may well be the only country growing at an healthy rate, that comes from immigration ... "Illegal Aiens" or "immigrants" however way we term it they deserve a fair chance to enjoy the fruits of their labor

Useless statistic when you consider the population size of other nations in the Western world.

I do agree with the other parts of your post.

 

[dingus]

Fair enough. I guess my point is that there is no such thing as PC without having an agenda behind it and the agenda is always much deeper than the word change. The example I used of illegal aliens shows changing words changes the mindset of how people think of the issue/problem until we are suddenly just a word away from completely legitimizing that which isn't. "Alien" morphed into "immigrant," "illegal" morphed into "undocumented," and now we just need to drop the word "undocumented" and suddenly they have become just immigrants.

well, i dont think thats where immigration is headed, but it would be ok with me if it did.

the problem with immigration, as i see it, is that the immigrants are not being processed. we need to apply a similar method to the influx of Mexican immigrants as was used on Ellis Island. log their id, assign them a federal tax number and green card and let them in.

 

[FrantzM]

Useless statistic when you consider the population size of other nations in the Western world.

I do agree with the other parts of your post.

It is not about the Western World John ... ALL OTHER COUNTRIES COMBINED ... Did you read that part?

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Pretty obvious to me that the U.S. Supreme Court is a body not guided by law and justice, but instead by party affiliation.

Gotta love the Supremes. One day they eliminate the best tool we have for fighting voter suppression that limits the rights of a minority group, the next they strike down a clearly unconstitutional law that limits the rights of a minority group. As politicized as the court is...and it is...I think that says that they are still guided by the constitution, at least sometimes.

Personally, I think pre-screening voting law changes did a tremendous amount of good in this country in the last 45 years, but it was out of time. The problem these days is not state and local governments in the South suppressing the vote of African Americans because of their race. It's state and local governments all over the country suppressing the vote of people who vote for the other party.

But I hated to see it go because, poor as it was, it was the best tool we had, because a few states is better than nothing, and because this pitiful excuse for a Congress will never pass a law to address the real problem; they are the real problem.

Tim

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

well, i dont think thats where immigration is headed, but it would be ok with me if it did.

the problem with immigration, as i see it, is that the immigrants are not being processed. we need to apply a similar method to the influx of Mexican immigrants as was used on Ellis Island. log their id, assign them a federal tax number and green card and let them in.

Yep. Either that or stop employing them. We're spending billions of dollars on militarizing the border. You want to stop it? Let America see the CEOs of a couple of meat processing and construction companies do the perp walk on the evening news and the incentive to come over, under, around and through that border will vanish. If the Canadians were paying illegal immigrant US citizens 100 grand a year to be retail clerks and looking the other way everywhere except at the border, thousands of our underemployed would be digging under the fence right now.

Tim

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

It is not about the Western World John ... ALL OTHER COUNTRIES COMBINED ... Did you read that part?

I did Frantz...but I mention the statistic as useless since Canada (as an example) with a population of one-tenth the size of the U.S. can't possibly accept the number of immigrants the U.S. does with it's 350 million population. Do those countries outside of that we consider the Western World really matter? China? India? Russia? They don't exactly have a welcoming environment for immigrants.

 

[FrantzM]

I did Frantz...but I mention the statistic as useless since Canada (as an example) with a population of one-tenth the size of the U.S. can't possibly accept the number of immigrants the U.S. does with it's 350 million population. Do those countries outside of that we consider the Western World really matter? China? India? Russia? They don't exactly have a welcoming environment for immigrants.

You made my point. The USA take immigration seriously, as an engine of growth and revitalization.. That is the point. A sound immigration policy is a must and dealing in a just and fair way with those that here illegally is important. It is an issue that should be dealt with great care and respect. Demonizing or criminalizing this people doesn't advance the debate one bit and the facility to see them as criminal has a great deal of political debit: Those who were vilipended as "criminals", at the very least their children will not forget who were on their side when comes election times.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

You made my point. The USA take immigration seriously, as an engine of growth and revitalization.. That is the point. A sound immigration policy is a must and dealing in a just and fair way with those that here illegally is important. It is an issue that should be dealt with great care and respect. Demonizing or criminalizing this people doesn't advance the debate one bit and the facility to see them as criminal has a great deal of political debit: Those who were vilipended as "criminals", at the very least their children will not forget who were on their side when comes election times.

I don't see how I made your point as you ignored my references to population base. While the U.S. does indeed take immigration seriously it is not the only country that does so and many of them take that responsibility to an even greater level. What does the U.S. provide the newly-landed immigrant to your nation? Not a lot I suspect. In Canada they get government support, work assistance, healthcare benefits, and you know why? We believe in giving people who want a fresh start some assistance.

 

[mep]

Oh wow. I didn't mean to turn this discussion into an immigration debate and which country does it better. I just picked immigration as an example of how we determine certain words are pejorative in order to further an agenda. And having said that, there has to be some rule of law on how people from other countries can immigrate to another country legally. If they don't follow the rules, then they have to considered as law breakers. Maybe we should practice "catch me if you can" like we do with Cubans. If we turn them back before they hit the beach in Florida, they go back to Cuba. If they land on the beach, they are golden.

I could have picked other topics as examples, but they would probably all be hot-button issues. My whole point is that when people want to label certain words as offensive and create new words to replace them, take a peak underneath to see what is really going on.

 

[GaryProtein]

I detest political correctness. It dilutes the real meaning of terms and forces many terms to change their meanings. Besides, I'm not one to go out of my way to "be in style" so using terms that are politically correct means that I have to use a different word every ten years to describe the same thing.

I usually go out of my way to use the original terms of the past.

 

[mep]

I detest political correctness. It dilutes the real meaning of terms.

I usually go out of my way to use the original terms of the past.

So do I, but it's a reality and it's here to stay and it is getting worse every year. We love to say we have freedom of speech in the U.S. and it's guaranteed by the constitution, but what people don't tell you is there is a price you will pay depending on who you are, your job, and your place in society. Paula Dean just lost $12M per year in endorsements. Someone please convince her that she has freedom of speech. There is a constant parade of people who have to go on "ass kissing tours" in order to try to show their remorse for things they said that weren't PC and try and get back in the good graces of those they offended. If you have to go on the Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson tour, you know you really screwed up and that is where I see Paula Dean going next.

 

[DaveyF]

Pretty obvious to me that the U.S. Supreme Court is a body not guided by law and justice, but instead by party affiliation.

That's an interesting observation, John. Seems to be not only true BUT also IMO, very dangerous.