Oppo BDP 93 State of The Art for $500 if you have a DAC
- Thread starter Mobiusman
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Will a system not consisting of SOTA equipment, but a fine one nonetheless be able to tell the difference in resolution?
Kal
I have not tried a stock unit. This what I was told. The UMT is definitely outputting 24/176.4.
I have not tried a stock unit. This what I was told. The UMT is definitely outputting 24/176.4.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
SACD - not Redbook. The UMT does PCM conversion into 24/176.4.
I played a number of Japanese SACDs I have on hand that were not hybrid. The Bricasti M1 does not do any conversion. The readout indicates that it is locking onto a 176 signal.
I forgot how hot Al DiMeola "Elegant Gypsy" is!
I played a number of Japanese SACDs I have on hand that were not hybrid. The Bricasti M1 does not do any conversion. The readout indicates that it is locking onto a 176 signal.
I forgot how hot Al DiMeola "Elegant Gypsy" is!
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
I think it is unlikely as the difference in my experience is tiny and elusive. Also, as discussed in other threads/forums, there may be reasons to prefer 96kHz for signals being communicated between devices.
The UMT may do it but stock units will not. That suggest that those smart guys at MSB have done some deep work.
Ah. So, we do not know if the MSB guys have modified the device to convert DSD to PCM at 176.4 or if they are simply upsampling the regular 88.2 conversion to 176.4. Curious.
Kal:
I didn't get into a heavy conversation with Vince Galbo (MSB Sales Manager) about this but we did discuss it. A recent review of the UMT specifically said that it would only pass a 24/176.4 signal to the MSB DAC via its proprietary connection. I asked about this. Vince then told me that it would pass the same signal to the Bricasti over the digital outputs. He specifically said (and I'm paraphrasing) "It's an Oppo thing. We didn't do anything to it". I was of the impression that a stock Oppo 93 would the same as well.
Beyond that all I can tell you is that the Bricasti is locking on to a 176.4 signal and I've been able to blow dust off a small section of my collection.
Ken
I didn't get into a heavy conversation with Vince Galbo (MSB Sales Manager) about this but we did discuss it. A recent review of the UMT specifically said that it would only pass a 24/176.4 signal to the MSB DAC via its proprietary connection. I asked about this. Vince then told me that it would pass the same signal to the Bricasti over the digital outputs. He specifically said (and I'm paraphrasing) "It's an Oppo thing. We didn't do anything to it". I was of the impression that a stock Oppo 93 would the same as well.
Beyond that all I can tell you is that the Bricasti is locking on to a 176.4 signal and I've been able to blow dust off a small section of my collection.
Ken
Quoting from Vade Forrester's review on the Ultra Audio site:
"If you’re wondering how you’d play an SACD through a standard DAC, so was I. Basically, the UMT converts SACD’s DSD signal to PCM. But wait -- wouldn’t that infringe on Sony’s licensing agreement? Indeed it would; so, to honor that licensing arrangement, the UMT can play SACDs only through MSB DACs, which have a proprietary connection. With that connection, when you play an SACD the front panel of the DAC tells you it’s converted the DSD signal to 32/384 PCM, then downsampled that to 32/352.8. Want surround sound from your SACDs? The UMT is currently just a two-channel model, but a surround-sound version is coming -- for another $1995. "
I would appear that Mr. Forrester is only partially correct. The UMT can play SACDs through any DAC. Over the AES/EBU it is passing the DSD converted to PCM signal at 24/192.
And to really beat this to a pulp, Nicholas Bedworth said the following in his Postive Feedback review:
"For example, according to the UMT's designer, Dustin Semansky, rather than relying upon the low-level processing circuitry in the Oppo 93 board, he instead grabs the raw digital from the media (CD, USB thumb drive, etc.) and places it in a buffer memory. Thereafter, the digital data are transported through MSB-engineered gates and line drivers, without any additional processing or upsampling, to the outside world.
All the audio streams, except for SACD, are handled in this manner. In the case of SACD, the decimation step (meaning the conversion of the 1 bit delta-sigma SACD data into standard PCM formats) is performed on a special MSB board connected to the Oppo "core". As a result, MSB can guarantee bit-perfect and low-jitter bit streams for all these formats, even up to 384 kHz, 32-bit samples, for those listeners who opt for MSB's new Pro I2S Network II."
"If you’re wondering how you’d play an SACD through a standard DAC, so was I. Basically, the UMT converts SACD’s DSD signal to PCM. But wait -- wouldn’t that infringe on Sony’s licensing agreement? Indeed it would; so, to honor that licensing arrangement, the UMT can play SACDs only through MSB DACs, which have a proprietary connection. With that connection, when you play an SACD the front panel of the DAC tells you it’s converted the DSD signal to 32/384 PCM, then downsampled that to 32/352.8. Want surround sound from your SACDs? The UMT is currently just a two-channel model, but a surround-sound version is coming -- for another $1995. "
I would appear that Mr. Forrester is only partially correct. The UMT can play SACDs through any DAC. Over the AES/EBU it is passing the DSD converted to PCM signal at 24/192.
And to really beat this to a pulp, Nicholas Bedworth said the following in his Postive Feedback review:
"For example, according to the UMT's designer, Dustin Semansky, rather than relying upon the low-level processing circuitry in the Oppo 93 board, he instead grabs the raw digital from the media (CD, USB thumb drive, etc.) and places it in a buffer memory. Thereafter, the digital data are transported through MSB-engineered gates and line drivers, without any additional processing or upsampling, to the outside world.
All the audio streams, except for SACD, are handled in this manner. In the case of SACD, the decimation step (meaning the conversion of the 1 bit delta-sigma SACD data into standard PCM formats) is performed on a special MSB board connected to the Oppo "core". As a result, MSB can guarantee bit-perfect and low-jitter bit streams for all these formats, even up to 384 kHz, 32-bit samples, for those listeners who opt for MSB's new Pro I2S Network II."
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Curious, indeed. I have 4 different OPPOs and all output 88.2 only. I also have modified OPPO which outputs 3xS/PDIF and, again, at 88.2 only. It is not a processor limitation as other players will feed 176.4 to the same processor. This conflicts with ""It's an Oppo thing. We didn't do anything to it." I will contact Vince about this for clarification.
EDIT:Having read lasercd's post, it is clear that "It's an Oppo thing. We didn't do anything to it" is not really true. But I would expect no less of MSB.
Kal (patiently waiting for the multichannel version)
It's a shame the UMT in not capable of passing unconverted DSD to any DSD DAC. While I'm sure the UMT passing the DSD converted to 24/192 is sonically superior to using the $50 Monoprice to pass 24/88.2 to any DAC, the UMT is still an expensive half-step. As the folks who are ripping DSD SACDs will attest, there is nothing as good as pure DSD playback. This is after all the What's Best Forum and not What's 2nd Best.
Of course what we really need is just the DSD files on DVD data discs or digital downloads like we presently get other high rez digital files.
I had, the Oppo is good, but my Accuphase transport sounds with more body and gives more detail in instruments like strings and drums.
Please, I wanna know. Who knows exactly?
Soooo, the Oppo BDP-93, how does it output the DSD bitstream audio signal???
{Talkin' 'bout the digital 'HDMI Out' here of course.}
Pure, untouched, or at lower resolution (88.2 kHz) to downconverted LPCM???
Or! Do you have a choice? ...In the player Audio setup menu.
* And I bet the BDP-95 is the exact same thing going on, right? And what does it do exactly???
Thank you so much to whoever can answer those few questions with absolute certainty. :b
Soooo, the Oppo BDP-93, how does it output the DSD bitstream audio signal???
{Talkin' 'bout the digital 'HDMI Out' here of course.}
Pure, untouched, or at lower resolution (88.2 kHz) to downconverted LPCM???
Or! Do you have a choice? ...In the player Audio setup menu.
* And I bet the BDP-95 is the exact same thing going on, right? And what does it do exactly???
Thank you so much to whoever can answer those few questions with absolute certainty. :b
Lloyd, I could be wrong, but my guess is that the difference remains on the PSU used in either units.
Actually, you are totally right. I have spoken with guys who mod these things. i also have replaced the powercable on the Oppo with a powercable by Sablon Audio...smokes!...huge difference. it seems to be very sensitive on power supply. check out Sablon's website...sablonaudio.com i know the owner quite well, and think his products are great. my other PCs are Purist Audio Dominus/Ann Contego. I really like the Sablon Audio on the Oppo.
For under $2K, Oppo is great. But, there are some amongst us, who pay over $10K for our source, and Oppo cannot compete nor come close to that quality of sound and build ( no surpirise). And in my case a highly modified Wadia S7i by The Great Northern Sound Company. I refuse to accept anything less.
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