New to Gryphon - Diablo 333

[tt33rd]

Hi everybody!

I just registered to this forum as I bought the Diablo 333 integrated and wanted to join some Gryphon owners community.
This is my first Gryphon product and Diablo 333 replaced the Naim New Classic 300 series with NAC332/NPX300/NAP350s. Due to challenges with improving on the Naim (many boxes, unit stacking, cable dressing, racks etc.), I decided to reduce the box count.

I auditioned Dagostino Progression Integrated, Aavik U-588 and Diablo 333.
U-588 was so hard and clinical at bass that I'm not sure what were they thinking.
Progression was a nice step up from Naim, but Diablo 333 was on another level.
In the end, by lowering the box count I improved the SQ considerably. And the unit is still braking in, so I expect even better performance.

Cheers!

 

[Elberoth]

Congrats - a GREAT company and great amp!

 

[tt33rd]

Congrats - a GREAT company and great amp!

Thanks Adam!
You have an impressive system.

 

[Laurusri]

Welcome to the Gryphon club, give us more impressions.

 

[Solartiger]

Congratulations! Nice system, how does the Rockna Wavedream sound?

 

[tt33rd]

Congratulations! Nice system, how does the Rockna Wavedream sound?

Thank you!
For someone who values textures and holographic presentation but without losing any resolution, it is incredible.
I auditioned dCS Rossini Apex and Rockna WaveDream Signature side by side and for me and my system, Rockna is in another league.

Btw just going through your system post, very nice!

 

[tt33rd]

Hey guys, happy Friday!
Just to share with you that I'm over the moon with Diablo 333! The performance is fantastic, and the sound is addictive.
I just want to listen to more music.

To experience such an improvement over the same costing Naim 300 series is unbelievable.
Diablo is a much better value.

Cheers!

 

[LarryK]

What stand is that?

I’m looking for a similar setup when I go to build a minimal Gryphon setup of the Diablo 333, EOS-2 speakers, Mac Mini streaming to an Aqua Formula DAC, and the Accuphase T-1000 tuner.

I’ll also stack a DN-900R SSD recorder, which is pretty light.

What speakers are you using?

 

[tt33rd]

What stand is that?

I’m looking for a similar setup when I go to build a minimal Gryphon setup of the Diablo 333, EOS-2 speakers, Mac Mini streaming to an Aqua Formula DAC, and the Accuphase T-1000 tuner.

I’ll also stack a DN-900R SSD recorder, which is pretty light.

What speakers are you using?

It's Bassocontinuo Accordeon XL4 2.1 MC Edition Audio Rack.
The speakers are Borresen C1.

I love Eos 2 and I almost bought them, but they were a bit boomy when I auditioned them. I think it was my room, they were not getting along. It also might be I didn't set them up properly.

I recommend you try a streamer transport and leave the Mac as a server, you should see an improvement in SQ. Especially with Aqua proprietary I2S, that should be a killer.

This is my latest setup, I changed Rockna WaveLight Server for a Rockna WaveDream NET. NET is in another class. I'm using it just as an HQPlayer NAA endpoint, with the HQP server running on a separate NUC.

 

[LarryK]

It's Bassocontinuo Accordeon XL4 2.1 MC Edition Audio Rack.
The speakers are Borresen C1.

I love Eos 2 and I almost bought them, but they were a bit boomy when I auditioned them. I think it was my room, they were not getting along. It also might be I didn't set them up properly.

I recommend you try a streamer transport and leave the Mac as a server, you should see an improvement in SQ. Especially with Aqua proprietary I2S, that should be a killer.

This is my latest setup, I changed Rockna WaveLight Server for a Rockna WaveDream NET. NET is in another class. I'm using it just as an HQPlayer NAA endpoint, with the HQP server running on a separate NUC.
View attachment 162820

Thanks for the reply.

That's not a cheap rack but I like that it is from Italy. Did they wrap glass with leather?

Are your speakers ported or not ported?

I am moving from the Gryphon Cantatas, which are sealed, to the EOS-2s because the EOS-2s are ported and allow the user to close the rear port and open the front port so the speakers can be closer to the rear wall. My wife insists on the speakers being closer to the wall at whatever apartment we happen to buy in Dublin. I'm surprised you found them boomy. What size is your room?

Which streamer transport do you recommend?

I run Roon on the MacMini.

I'm hesitant to add another box.

I am reducing the number of components in my system, from the current components, a Gryphon Colosseum, Gryphon Pandora, Accuphase CD player, Accuphase T-1000 FM tuner, Aqua Formula, Niagara 5000, and a Michell Gyrodec turntable to just the T-1000 FM tuner, for I have always loved FM radio, and the Aqua Formula DAC.

Out goes all the physical media. I'm a bit sad about it but I cannot let a stereo system run my life.

 

[tt33rd]

That's not a cheap rack but I like that it is from Italy. Did they wrap glass with leather?

I got it 2nd hand. The glass is inserted into the wood and it's only deep to half of the profile. The wood is wrapped in leather.

Are your speakers ported or not ported?

Ported on the back.

I am moving from the Gryphon Cantatas, which are sealed, to the EOS-2s because the EOS-2s are ported and allow the user to close the rear port and open the front port so the speakers can be closer to the rear wall. My wife insists on the speakers being closer to the wall at whatever apartment we happen to buy in Dublin. I'm surprised you found them boomy. What size is your room?

Yes, Eos2 is specifically a near wall speaker and I think it's a great choice.
At the time of the demo I didn't play around with front/back port. If I remember they had the back port opened. The main issue for me is that they generally need space between them and I'm limited to 2.2m max. Room is 20sqm (4x5) and the bass was bloated and slow. Big difference compared to what I heard at my dealer, even though the bass slowness (subjectively speaking) was obvious there as well.

Which streamer transport do you recommend?

I run Roon on the MacMini.

I'm hesitant to add another box.

I understand. Without question, I'd try Aqua LinQ which should be a natural choice given the proprietary I2S connection. I also like LinQ for its flexibility with software. You use Roon and that's fine, but if you'd try Jplay/Upnp or HQP NAA, you'd see how much Roon sucks in SQ compared. It's a great software and I sometimes use it for convenience (my wife) but for anything more serious I stream with Jplay/minimserver/HQPlayer.

I am reducing the number of components in my system, from the current components, a Gryphon Colosseum, Gryphon Pandora, Accuphase CD player, Accuphase T-1000 FM tuner, Aqua Formula, Niagara 5000, and a Michell Gyrodec turntable to just the T-1000 FM tuner, for I have always loved FM radio, and the Aqua Formula DAC.

Out goes all the physical media. I'm a bit sad about it but I cannot let a stereo system run my life.

Out with the CD, TT and FM!
Seriously, you then only need a server (which can be your Mac) and a streamer. Or you can get a top server/streamer combo like Antipodes.

 

[LarryK]

I got it 2nd hand. The glass is inserted into the wood and it's only deep to half of the profile. The wood is wrapped in leather.

Ported on the back.

Yes, Eos2 is specifically a near wall speaker and I think it's a great choice.
At the time of the demo I didn't play around with front/back port. If I remember they had the back port opened. The main issue for me is that they generally need space between them and I'm limited to 2.2m max. Room is 20sqm (4x5) and the bass was bloated and slow. Big difference compared to what I heard at my dealer, even though the bass slowness (subjectively speaking) was obvious there as well.

I understand. Without question, I'd try Aqua LinQ which should be a natural choice given the proprietary I2S connection. I also like LinQ for its flexibility with software. You use Roon and that's fine, but if you'd try Jplay/Upnp or HQP NAA, you'd see how much Roon sucks in SQ compared. It's a great software and I sometimes use it for convenience (my wife) but for anything more serious I stream with Jplay/minimserver/HQPlayer.

Out with the CD, TT and FM!
Seriously, you then only need a server (which can be your Mac) and a streamer. Or you can get a top server/streamer combo like Antipodes.

Thanks for all the advice.

I had contemplated the LinQ but maybe I will give it more thought now that I will be significantly shrinking my system.

Adding the LinQ will require another shelf.

I am giving careful thought to the room dimensions you mentioned because we will wind up in around 80 square meters in Dublin, with a small living room. It’s going to be tough to find a decent place.

I also have an upright piano, lol, a Yamaha DYUS5. We are thinking of a modern apartment building but need one that has a lift that accommodates the piano. Note, pianos can be put on end for short rides in an elevator.

I agree about getting rid of the CD player and turntable. I simply cannot get rid of my FM tuner because, I like to listen to humans tell me about music and the local area.

For a while, I dated a classical DJ. I loved hanging out in the studio. Before that, I had listened to her in my car, for years.

My T-1000 is about the best tuner Accuphase ever made,

6moons audioreviews: Accuphase T-1000

 

[tt33rd]

Thanks for all the advice.

I had contemplated the LinQ but maybe I will give it more thought now that I will be significantly shrinking my system.

Adding the LinQ will require another shelf.

I am giving careful thought to the room dimensions you mentioned because we will wind up in around 80 square meters in Dublin, with a small living room. It’s going to be tough to find a decent place.

I also have an upright piano, lol, a Yamaha DYUS5. We are thinking of a modern apartment building but need one that has a lift that accommodates the piano. Note, pianos can be put on end for short rides in an elevator.

I agree about getting rid of the CD player and turntable. I simply cannot get rid of my FM tuner because, I like to listen to humans tell me about music and the local area.

For a while, I dated a classical DJ. I loved hanging out in the studio. Before that, I had listened to her in my car, for years.

My T-1000 is about the best tuner Accuphase ever made,

6moons audioreviews: Accuphase T-1000

Couldn't you get away with internet radio instead of the tuner? Not sure if tuner has anything else special to it apart from playing local FM stations?

I live in an even smaller apartment and for my 20sqm living room, I learned that bookshelf speakers do sound best due to bass bloat and room modes.

 

[LarryK]

Couldn't you get away with internet radio instead of the tuner? Not sure if tuner has anything else special to it apart from playing local FM stations?

I live in an even smaller apartment and for my 20sqm living room, I learned that bookshelf speakers do sound best due to bass bloat and room modes.

I want the local stations. They have kept me connected to every place I have lived. I can stream radio stations through Roon but, somehow, it just doesn’t seem the same.

I asked my wife about the sizes of the living rooms in the apartments we have been looking at and she said, maybe 30 sq meters when combined with the kitchen.

Keep in mind that the Irish squeeze two bedrooms and two bathrooms into 80 square meters, and sometimes in apartments down to 50 square meters.

I’m glad that Gryphon gave some thought to those of us who do not have huge dedicated listening rooms.

By the way, I am running HQPlayer under Roon on my Mac Mini. Do you think I will still see a large improvement in SQ using the LinQ?

I pay around $50 a month to stream lossless from both Qobuz and Tidal. When I think of all the money I spent on physical CDs, which I basically have to give away, I get depressed.

 

[tt33rd]

I want the local stations. They have kept me connected to every place I have lived. I can stream radio stations through Roon but, somehow, it just doesn’t seem the same

I get that, and I respect that you have this feeling for yourself.

I asked my wife about the sizes of the living rooms in the apartments we have been looking at and she said, maybe 30 sq meters when combined with the kitchen.

Keep in mind that the Irish squeeze two bedrooms and two bathrooms into 80 square meters, and sometimes in apartments down to 50 square meters.

I’m glad that Gryphon gave some thought to those of us who do not have huge dedicated listening rooms.

I don't see a problem with 30sqm room for them, it would be perfect. Just make sure you dial them in properly.

By the way, I am running HQPlayer under Roon on my Mac Mini. Do you think I will still see a large improvement in SQ using the LinQ?

What I can say from my experience with Rockna and from others who use DACs with preferred or even proprietary inputs, these inputs give max SQ. In the case of my Rockna, I2S over HDMI is by far the best input on it. I tried many streamers and Rockna NET over I2S is the best match I've heard.
Similar to Rockna, Aqua has its proprietary I2S input which is I'm 100% sure better than all other inputs it has. LinQ is a natural match for it.

That's one thing. The other thing is how much the streamer contributes to the sound depending on the connection type, and in the case of synchronous data transfer, the streamers clock is massively important. Both clock and its power supply. Native streamer/DAC pairs very often outperform other combos.

Finally, the streaming software and protocols used influence the sound. Some are better, some worse. LinQ has this flexibility built in, which is a huge plus for me, and shows that designers are aware of its importance.

To finish of, I believe galvanic isolation between the noisy server and DAC is very important. USB connection from the server to a DAC is the worst possible option. Streamer takes this middle role and creates a low noise renderer device with quality clock and power and provides the purest and most jitterless digital signal to the DAC.

LinQ with HQP NAA streaming from Roon/HQP on your Mac, will I 100% believe, outperform your current setup by a lot!

 

[LarryK]

I get that, and I respect that you have this feeling for yourself.


I don't see a problem with 30sqm room for them, it would be perfect. Just make sure you dial them in properly.


What I can say from my experience with Rockna and from others who use DACs with preferred or even proprietary inputs, these inputs give max SQ. In the case of my Rockna, I2S over HDMI is by far the best input on it. I tried many streamers and Rockna NET over I2S is the best match I've heard.
Similar to Rockna, Aqua has its proprietary I2S input which is I'm 100% sure better than all other inputs it has. LinQ is a natural match for it.

That's one thing. The other thing is how much the streamer contributes to the sound depending on the connection type, and in the case of synchronous data transfer, the streamers clock is massively important. Both clock and its power supply. Native streamer/DAC pairs very often outperform other combos.

Finally, the streaming software and protocols used influence the sound. Some are better, some worse. LinQ has this flexibility built in, which is a huge plus for me, and shows that designers are aware of its importance.

To finish of, I believe galvanic isolation between the noisy server and DAC is very important. USB connection from the server to a DAC is the worst possible option. Streamer takes this middle role and creates a low noise renderer device with quality clock and power and provides the purest and most jitterless digital signal to the DAC.

LinQ with HQP NAA streaming from Roon/HQP on your Mac, will I 100% believe, outperform your current setup by a lot!

Thanks for that information.

I think I’ll give it a try.

How hot does the 333 run? You don’t seem to have a lot of space above it.

I am wondering if I can put my new system of the Aqua LinQ, Aqua Formula, Accuphase T-1000, and Diablo 333 into this TV stand.

I measured and I think it would fit.

This would help with marital harmony.

 

[tt33rd]

Thanks for that information.

I think I’ll give it a try.

How hot does the 333 run? You don’t seem to have a lot of space above it.

I am wondering if I can put my new system of the Aqua LinQ, Aqua Formula, Accuphase T-1000, and Diablo 333 into this TV stand.

I measured and I think it would fit.

This would help with marital harmony.

333 doesn't get too hot at all in normal conditions. I got around 10cm clearance on the top. It's interesting, top portion of 333 is empty space used for its optional DAC and phono modules. That means the majority of heat is on its sides. It also has big spikes so has much room beneath it.

It should fit 4 devices no problems. The only thing to check is the height of 333, its depth is actually regular for an integrated of this class.

I know what you mean. I consolidated to these three units from five Naim 300 series units. It sounds better and it looks better.

 

[LarryK]

333 doesn't get too hot at all in normal conditions. I got around 10cm clearance on the top. It's interesting, top portion of 333 is empty space used for its optional DAC and phono modules. That means the majority of heat is on its sides. It also has big spikes so has much room beneath it.

It should fit 4 devices no problems. The only thing to check is the height of 333, its depth is actually regular for an integrated of this class.

I know what you mean. I consolidated to these three units from five Naim 300 series units. It sounds better and it looks better.

I did measure the height of the 333 and it will fit, but not if it needs a lot of headroom for heat.

I’m glad the heat is going sideways to the heat sinks, where it belongs.

It would be a big step for me to get rid of my vertical rack. Here is a current picture of my setup.

I am never going to have a large listening space.

What option would I choose for the LinQ? The first one for Roon?

Long-life platform Network Interface | aqua LinQ

Long-life platform Network Interface Roon Ready UPnP DLNA Streamer

www.aquahifi.com

4 Slots to implement future-proof network protocols (modules). Available now:
- HQPlayer Core + NAA (cascade-modules) | No-Compromise Audio Engine for Roon
- HQPlayer NAA | Renderer
- UPnP DLNA | Renderer
- Squeezelite | Renderer
- TIDAL Connect | Renderer

In R&D:
- Qobuz Connect* | Renderer *Coming soon

I am connected to both Tidal and Qobuz under Roon.

 

[tt33rd]

I did measure the height of the 333 and it will fit, but not if it needs a lot of headroom for heat.

I’m glad the heat is going sideways to the heat sinks, where it belongs.

It would be a big step for me to get rid of my vertical rack. Here is a current picture of my setup.

I am never going to have a large listening space.

What option would I choose for the LinQ? The first one for Roon?

Long-life platform Network Interface | aqua LinQ

Long-life platform Network Interface Roon Ready UPnP DLNA Streamer

www.aquahifi.com

4 Slots to implement future-proof network protocols (modules). Available now:
- HQPlayer Core + NAA (cascade-modules) | No-Compromise Audio Engine for Roon
- HQPlayer NAA | Renderer
- UPnP DLNA | Renderer
- Squeezelite | Renderer
- TIDAL Connect | Renderer

In R&D:
- Qobuz Connect* | Renderer *Coming soon

I am connected to both Tidal and Qobuz under Roon.

The first two options are interesting.

The first option is actually a full HQP server which you don't need if you already have it on your Mac. In case you want to move it to LinQ, that would be the option, but I would suggest you check the specifics on that, as HQP can be demanding and make the streamer more "noisy", which is understandable since in that setup it is acting as both a HQP server and a streamer.

The Second option is a purist option and one which I recommend since that's exactly what I run on my WaveDream NET streamer. That one is running just a HQP NAA lightweight renderer component, pure streamer thing. Since you already have Roon/HQP on your Mac, you would point your HQP to this NAA renderer and that's it.

 

[LarryK]

The first two options are interesting.

The first option is actually a full HQP server which you don't need if you already have it on your Mac. In case you want to move it to LinQ, that would be the option, but I would suggest you check the specifics on that, as HQP can be demanding and make the streamer more "noisy", which is understandable since in that setup it is acting as both a HQP server and a streamer.

The Second option is a purist option and one which I recommend since that's exactly what I run on my WaveDream NET streamer. That one is running just a HQP NAA lightweight renderer component, pure streamer thing. Since you already have Roon/HQP on your Mac, you would point your HQP to this NAA renderer and that's it.

Thanks, that sounds like what I want to do.

I guess I am in no rush to buy the LinQ because my rack is full and it will probably be a year or more before I put together my minimal digital system.