Neutral power amp recommendations?

[mtemur]

Who cares preferable is whats its about in life

...not preferable for me.

 

[Phantom-Audio]

Based on the Solid State amplifiers discussed, Dartzeel or R Koda appears to offer a more user-friendly option for long-term use. While CH may come across as neutral but to me lifeless yet extremely dynamic initially, it might not maintain its appeal over extended ownership.

The choice between speakers and amplifiers plays a crucial role. While CH, Vitus, and Boulder are renowned for their quality, they may not convey music as authentically as a Tube or Hybrid System could. Another contender worth considering is the Aries Cerat TriodeFet, which, in my opinion, offers a more natural and musical sound compared to CH and other options.

 

[Phantom-Audio]

I have personally owned the Dreams Series DAC and Streamer/DSD Player for more than 4 years. During this time, I have extensively used the DAC connected directly to amplifiers using the built-in volume control, as well as with an outboard Pre-Amplifier. In my experience, utilizing an outboard Pre-amplifier consistently delivered superior results.

 

[thedudeabides]

Surprised no one has mentioned the Class A Pass Lab amps. Too mainstream?

 

[chuck]

I consider Boulder to be so neutral as to be sterile and analytical (sorry Chuck!).

That does not make sense to me. Either it is neutral or it is distorted. Boulder in my experience (owning 2060, 3060, 1008, 1110 and 812) is neutral. "Sterile and analytical" are distortions like the ever present and changing tube distortion with tube amps.

While CH, Vitus, and Boulder are renowned for their quality, they may not convey music as authentically as a Tube or Hybrid System could.

I have heard variations on the claim that tubes are more "authentic" many times and asked for demonstrations of what that means. Invariably it is a distortion that sounds good with certain types of music (the audiophile recordings heard at shows) for a short time. To me it gets boring after about 20 minutes. The same is true of a.lot of solid state amps, they have their own types of distortion. The OP can listen to them like he did with the DACs.

 

[Tonari]

Nagra Classic. Cheaper than CH Precision, probably not in the sale league neither, but neutral according to my experience with it (4-5 years)

 

[Lagonda]

Unfortunately there is no such a thing like “Neutral Power Amp”. They all have their sound signatures. Some have more distinct than the others.

If you’re looking for warm, not-offensive, in other words a distant sounding amplifier look for solid states. BTW Gryphon, CH or Krell are as neutral as Kim Kardashian’s bottom. Preferable but not neutral.

On the other hand if you can listen live music without your tinnitus is triggered then unnatural, artificial sound might be the real problem. I have tinnitus too and it’s sensitive to oversampling that’s why I don’t prefer digital. But noise up to a level is helping though. In that sense vinyl setup instead of digital might help.

IMHO if you want intimate, lifelike sound without being warm then look for tubes.

One mans "lifelike sound without being warm" is another's fat bottom girl, and they make the world go around !

 

[thedudeabides]

That does not make sense to me. Either it is neutral or it is distorted.

Can someone please explain the objective standard(s) used to determine an amp that is "neutral" that is not system / room / listener biased?

 

[Phantom-Audio]

That does not make sense to me. Either it is neutral or it is distorted. Boulder in my experience (owning 2060, 3060, 1008, 1110 and 812) is neutral. "Sterile and analytical" are distortions like the ever present and changing tube distortion with tube amps.

I have heard variations on the claim that tubes are more "authentic" many times and asked for demonstrations of what that means. Invariably it is a distortion that sounds good with certain types of music (the audiophile recordings heard at shows) for a short time. To me it gets boring after about 20 minutes. The same is true of a.lot of solid state amps, they have their own types of distortion. The OP can listen to them like he did with the DACs.

I don't typically listen to audiophile music, but I do appreciate the quality of recordings during demos. Not all tube amplifiers or hybrids can guarantee an authentic sound; many tend to color the sound heavily, which appeals to certain audiences. Personally, I prefer a balanced sound that encompasses resolution, dynamics, tonality, sheer control, bass presence in the room, and an open and effortless soundstage.

Some brands, like CH and a few others, may sound too lean and lifeless. While audiophile recordings may sound impeccable on these systems, issues become apparent when experimenting with different music genres and recordings. The lean or analytical sound characteristic of these setups is less forgiving, and discrepancies can quickly make the listening experience uncomfortable.

 

[Rexp]

The low level listening requirement is your biggest issue. Instead of just adding a power amp, you may be better off demoing speaker/amp combos.

 

[Folsom]

Well.... nothing mentioned thus far qualifies to me.

CH is not neutral to me. The selectable GNFB is useful for the amp, but not necessarily entirely. To me it either sounds less than or more than neutral, but that works in favor of other things the change the sound in less neutral ways. So the combination of CH with some things it makes sense but overall I cannot say it sounds "right".

If you started with neutral cabling this endevour would make more sense to me.

Although a side comment that noise floor does not necessarily have much of anything to do with low level listening. Someone told me recently my power cables made them turn the volume down because it seemed louder or like they could understand it better so they did not have to turn the volume up as much. How do you know which is which? Fact is neither change the noise floor.

 

[andromedaaudio]

If you started with neutral cabling this endevour would make more sense to me.

Lets go

 

[Tonari]

Can someone please explain the objective standard(s) used to determine an amp that is "neutral" that is not system / room / listener biased?

I think indeed the claim that an amplifier is more or less neutral or not (colored) is done by comparisons and therefore highly subjective

 

[chuck]

I think indeed the claim that an amplifier is more or less neutral or not (colored) is done by comparisons and therefore highly subjective

Maybe but there are measurements. Neutral, non-distorting amps measure that way. Compare the Stereophile measurements of Boulder 2150 to dartZeel 468 for example. The Boulder has virtually no measurable distortion, the dartZeel has relatively high distortion. The amps sound like they measure. The manufacturers will also sometimes tell you their goals. Boulder states their goal is to banish all distortion. dartZeel's goal is the sound the designer likes, distortion measurements are of little concern. The reviewer, Michael Fremer, acknowledged the neutrality of the Boulder but purchased the dartZeels..

 

[Imperial]

Hi everyone,

I’m back after my DAC journey post and I’m now looking for a power amp recommendation.

In short, I’m looking for something more neutral without being cold or analytical. Important to have a low noise floor and to sound good at low volumes (in my experience some amps need to be cranked up to hear what they’re capable of).

About me: I have aggressive tinnitus and it is triggered pretty easily by harsh highs. I do all my listening in quiet at low volumes (~50db). Want to stay away from anything hyper detailed, dry, analytical, etc. I originally architected my system around a ‘warmer’ sound but have come more recently to appreciate neutrality and transparency.

Edit: Also forgot to mention, looking for solid state, not tubes. And price would be under $30k.

Current setup
Source: Innuos Pulsar
DAC + volume control: Playback Designs MPD-8
Speakers: Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Concert Grand Reference (90db, 4ohm)
Power: Transparent Powerwave
Cabling: Various, no single loom (yet). Have Raven Audio, Transparent, Wireworld, FTA, Inakustik, Acoustic Revive

Thanks in advance!

Hi.
I would like to point out that your loudspeaker of choice has a problem that makes your need difficult to meet.
The frequency balance makes so that you need to play louder To Get it to sound good. It is known, as per analysis of Atkinson (Stereophile) to not be able to play loud because its evidently designed to not play loud… it will not utilize more of wattage..
So I would seriously consider equalizing it say digitally and tailor the response so that it will work for you… this would be a very smart avenyen for you.
THEN you look for the amplifier that will complement this strategy.
I… would in your case change the speaker.
You Are asking it to make something happen, it is not made to do.. to perform at very low volume to not trigger your hearing.
My 2 cents.

Now then..
There Are loudspeakers for very low volume listening, or that come alive and Are present and Dynamic while still sweet and neutral at lower than usual db numbers.

I suggest to look at this one


Illumina Magister MK II. ( should be under 30k $) just.. so
Very different, but maybe its the bee’s knees for your need?

It is a field coil design. Very adaptible and goes down to 30hz or so.
There Are tests online and They all say: sound amazing from whisper low volume. Will not play very loud. But then again.. you never do!

a snippet from a reviewer:

The solution​

But fortunately the solution is near, because for anyone who likes loud music played at a low or higher volume level because music can then be experienced so physically, there is a matching Ilumnia subwoofer in the making. A design that will be on the market in the not too distant future, which will relieve the burden on the LEMS driver and, according to Jef, will have a unique inaudible transition with maximum integration. So you don't have the known issues that you always hear such an extra bass speaker separately. But let's not get stuck on this one little dark side that is not important for most of us. Because in daily practice the Magister mk 2 speakers prove to be real omnivores. Classical is of course beautiful due to the beautifully layered 3D space panorama and the natural tonal balance. Singer/songwriter music appears to be able to evoke an above-average lyrical experience, the texture of the acoustic guitars and profound emotions. Pop draws my attention to its excellently conveyed timing capabilities, driving rhythms and musical twists. Final jazz creates a feast of subtleties, textures and exciting mutual interactions. In short, this LEMS driver, together with the beautifully integrated Scanspeak tweeter, is an extremely interesting and wonderfully expressive speaker to listen to. Your attention remains completely intact, no matter how softly or loudly you play. With the correct setting and possible combination of the three bass ports, the bass is also sonorous and nice and full, pure and well defined. Although the obvious playing style is somewhat reminiscent of an electrostat or magnetostat, the bass and mid-bass clearly have the power and impact of a real high-end speaker system. Beautiful and definitely infectious.

So…
Anyway.
I will suggest an amp for your current speakers.,
MBL N21. Ca 20 000ish $
Neutral and should kick Life at very low volume playback.

 

[dan31]

I would give some thought to how you listen. Do you enjoy the hidden details in recordings? Do you want a flow of music you can immerse yourself in and relax?

I think most who try a neutral amplifier find it harder to engage especially if coming from tubes.

Excellent SS amplifiers are available given your budget. Dartzeel, Gryphon, Pass are a few. The Benchmark amplifer has all the neutral and low noise you could want. Some love it and some move on quickly. $3k to experiment. Parasound makes great high value amplifiers without going to $30k. I found Spectral to be truly neutral but the requirements are burdensome.

 

[DMSB]

Hi everyone,

I’m back after my DAC journey post and I’m now looking for a power amp recommendation.

In short, I’m looking for something more neutral without being cold or analytical. Important to have a low noise floor and to sound good at low volumes (in my experience some amps need to be cranked up to hear what they’re capable of).

About me: I have aggressive tinnitus and it is triggered pretty easily by harsh highs. I do all my listening in quiet at low volumes (~50db). Want to stay away from anything hyper detailed, dry, analytical, etc. I originally architected my system around a ‘warmer’ sound but have come more recently to appreciate neutrality and transparency.

Edit: Also forgot to mention, looking for solid state, not tubes. And price would be under $30k.

Current setup
Source: Innuos Pulsar
DAC + volume control: Playback Designs MPD-8
Speakers: Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Concert Grand Reference (90db, 4ohm)
Power: Transparent Powerwave
Cabling: Various, no single loom (yet). Have Raven Audio, Transparent, Wireworld, FTA, Inakustik, Acoustic Revive

Thanks in advance!

I am completely biased, because I designed it, but you are perfectly describing the MSB s202. I think you should arrange a demo so you can hear it yourself.

 

[Imperial]

I would give some thought to how you listen. Do you enjoy the hidden details in recordings? Do you want a flow of music you can immerse yourself in and relax?

I think most who try a neutral amplifier find it harder to engage especially if coming from tubes.

Excellent SS amplifiers are available given your budget. Dartzeel, Gryphon, Pass are a few. The Benchmark amplifer has all the neutral and low noise you could want. Some love it and some move on quickly. $3k to experiment. Parasound makes great high value amplifiers without going to $30k. I found Spectral to be truly neutral but the requirements are burdensome.

This actually a Good idea.
A reference point of sort.
A Benchmark ABH2 (retail 3500 thereabout)
Live with for a period of time, so that one can clearly hear what it does , then lovers lane strolling for that keeper that ‘most’ likely is one that will stay.
Lots of audiophiles have this Amp as a second just because it is … and does just deliver a LOT for the price.

A rather oddball one at that … there Are whispers on the web of an Amp that is quite capable
Its called Datasat RA2400.
1 farrad capacitance and some 400/600w 8/4 ohms of power.



That powersupply of 1 farrad…
I’d try that one its 12k retail I believe.
Seen them used for 6-7 ish sometimes.
I know. Far out stuff. But some report that They replaced Halcro Amps with it.
The sound? Must be Good for the money.