Modified EQ vs Cables($$$$$) Anyone try it??

MCLSOUND

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Mar 26, 2011
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A good friend of mine has over $4000 worth of ""used"" highend cables and is saddend that they donnot seem to do their job for him.We are going to go on a adventure and modify 3 different EQ's.
Rane-2x30 band
Ashly-2x31
2/Klark Technik-1x27 band

Swap out some chep parts with Vishay and try some nice oil caps.....Just a couple hundred dollars worth of mods and see what the difference is.
If the cables were bought from a dealer at a decent discount would have been closer to $6800 with tax.
The KT are in the shop now and should be done in a week or 2.
So we will see.
 
They use Klark Technik and Ashley equalizers in Avery Fisher Hall.
 
A good friend of mine has over $4000 worth of ""used"" highend cables and is saddend that they donnot seem to do their job for him.
That is strange. Their job is to connect one component to another and, if they fail to do that, they are defective. If he expects them to do something else, he is deluded.
 
gosh Kal
We have not spoke for awhile and you are already using words like deluded...Has no one ever told you that cables act as EQ's???Has no one in this industry ever pond that theory off to you??I have read several articles that state just that......"""Buy these $2000 cables because they are soft/deep/refined/incredible/etc....
I am yet to read"""Buy'em fer $2000 cause they connect"""
I will have a look through Stereophile for a couple good quotes you may have missed.

Good to hear from you
 
Pond is the easy way of saying.....
""Hi,I am new to hi-end audio with little knowledge and quite gullable to listen to anything people(salesman)have to say to help improve my systems SQ""
Now that, that time has gone and passed,I am going back to the old days(with a couple improvements) of a analog sound.....is all I am saying.
Now back to Kal's ""DELUDED"" theory..........I have been in the pages of Sterephile and as a simple example
Feb. 25/2007-Stereovox SEI 600.2 and LSP-600 Interconnects/Speaker Cables.
Near the bottom just before the Summing Up
""With the Vahallas,there was a glare in John Fogerty's voice that I found unlistenable.With Stereovox cables it all fell into place""
The glare to me is a brittle upper-end in his voice-NO???
or
""but $1000 for interconnects and $2500 for speaker cables is probably credible,if not nessarily sane""
Just for connectors,how deluded is this article,coming from the very company you hold so dearly and work for.
There are more articles in Stereophile,matter of fact,they all use the same format,tonal qualities and cost and why its worth buying.

What we are trying to do is lose the thousands of dollars in cables and put a few hundred into a good EQ/cable combo with satisfying results,is all.
And when one has several sources(CD,SACD,Phono,Amps(or multiple in a active system)etc.),there are lots of cables.
Not to come off like a bad-boy(maybe to late) but some of us had read these articles and took advise and tried this advise,and just came out unsatisified and lost money.
So now we move on to a new/old adventure.
 
MCL

I will step aside the cable debate... EQ is anathema to many audiophiles. I believe however correctly done it can provide good results. I think that in the low bass Graphic EQ which seems to be those you favor even 1/3 otave are not as efficient as parametric. Two questions:

Why not DRC? They tend to be extremely powerful and from many quarters can be transparent? The learning curve to get the best out of them is rather steep but seem to be worthwhile for many (That include I)
Have you considered Acoustics (Passive) Room Treatments? These often go a long way toward resolving many of the problems audiophiles confront?

I will also say that the notion of "cheap" parts should be approached with caution. Often results are a matter of execution and balance of constraints. Engineering is often a matter of finding the "just" compromise. Just dropping "more expensive" parts in a circuit doesn't necessarily provide better results. You are dealing with equalizers where the settings may have so much impact on the reproduction as to make simple evaluation of intrinsic sound of the EQ device meaningless and highly subject to .. erroneous subjective evaluations ... I am not saying that they can not be made to be more transparent.
 
Yes,the cable debate is tiresome..
The EQ's are here in our possesion is why.I agree on the parametric(always wanted to try the Manley Massive Passive out of curiosity but $$$$$).
I donnot like to much digital in my system(CD's...what are you gonna do!!??).I will stay as anolog as possible.
I trust my tech as he is very focused and is authorized to rebuild Krell,Mark Levinson,to Soundmaster($500,000 studio consols).He does all my work with amazing results.It is all about mods and SQ.Cheap is a funny topic as we have recently replaced some drivers in some big dollar speakers recently($11,000 and $48,000) and were astonished at the cheap divers(and I mean friggin embaressingly cheap)that were in them...and the replacement cost was just stupid for a $30 unit.
One can spend lots on room treatments also,but agree that there are many easy DIY room treatment projects for little $$$$
 
"Yes,the cable debate is tiresome.." couldn't agree more and you should have ended it there
 
I thought I just did???Did you read more past that?I thought it was onward to EQ's and treatments
 
thanks Tom
I agree wholeheartedly.Part of my previous post touched on cheap drivers.I have seen what 2 different companies did with their designs.My conclusions have made me go in a different direction altogether after seeing this:

Company 1-MSRP-$11,000
-used a $30 mid and $20 tweeter at the time of design


#2-MSRP- series#1=$49,000 series#2=$63,000
-Same speaker using $100 drivers


Very well known companies but have a different end result.
For guys who use great components that are designed for punishment,have a different outlook.I must say that if one goes in the DIY route that a EQ will help with tone,but not soundstaging.So now come the collaberation of the 2 around the EQ concept.
Truth,anyone can put a PA in their room,but to build a soundstage around power is more difficult.
I love:
ATC mids
Volt midbass
Aura sub bass
I am still experimenting with tweeters although Scanspeaks and Dynaudio are nice
 
gosh Kal
We have not spoke for awhile and you are already using words like deluded...Has no one ever told you that cables act as EQ's???Has no one in this industry ever pond that theory off to you??I have read several articles that state just that......"""Buy these $2000 cables because they are soft/deep/refined/incredible/etc....
I am yet to read"""Buy'em fer $2000 cause they connect"""
I will have a look through Stereophile for a couple good quotes you may have missed.

Good to hear from you

If cables act as EQ's, why is it that everybody always wants the most expensive cables to EQ their system? Does everybody's system need the exact same EQ?

I can't recall anyone trading their WireWorld Platinum Eclipse cables for Stream 16/2 because the EQ was better, and I'm not implying the WWPlatinum will sound better than the Stream.
 
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If cables act as EQ's, why is it that everybody always wants the most expensive cables to EQ their system?

I can't recall anyone trading their WireWorld Platinum Eclipse cables for Stream 16/2 because the EQ was better, and I'm not implying the WWPlatinum will sound better than the Stream.

Salz still make good wires ...? Ha , great for David .....:)
 
That is strange. Their job is to connect one component to another and, if they fail to do that, they are defective. If he expects them to do something else, he is deluded.

Hello and good morning to you, Kal. I read this statement yesterday and took it two different ways. One way was absolute truth and the other way, I was a little surprised about. That is, if I read into it correctly. Perhaps a little clarification would help.

The first way I took it was that quite literally, the job of a cable was to "connect one component to another and, if they fail to do that, they are defective". Taken at face value, you are correct. An interconnects job is to pass the signal plain and simple. If they do not pass the signal, there are indeed defective as they are not performing their primary function. " If he expects them to do something else, he is deluded", This part honestly threw me off a little bit but if you are referring to the expectation of having the cable act as a function of a pre-amp, volume knob, processor, power switch or surge protector, which is a ridiculous expectation, then you are correct. They are in fact, delusional.

Now, if I were to take your statement another way taking into account the topic of the thread, let's look at your statement once again.

That is strange. Their job is to connect one component to another and, if they fail to do that, they are defective. If he expects them to do something else, he is deluded.

The first part of your statement IMO, is indisputable. Moving onto the last sentence within your statement, given the topic of the thread, it honestly threw me back for a couple of double takes. Especially when you take into consideration your experience in the hobby we all love so dearly. Now I realize that this is your opinion and I can respect that. Everybody is entitled to have their own point of view. With that said, I'm gonna have to agree to disagree with the latter part of your statement if your intent was to say that anyone who uses cables as an EQ [if you will] of sorts, is deluded.

Just like the OP's friend, I have around 5K worth of cables sitting in a couple of boxes. Most of which have not been used in years. Within those boxes of cables lay copper cables, both twisted and solid, silver cables, cables with different metallurgy's and/or combined metallurgy's with various connections, soldering and manufacturing techniques along with a plethora of standard and upgraded/custom connectors. In other words, cables from all walks of life. Each one has its own distinctive sound. I tend to personally put the cables into two classes. Copper or silver.

In my experience, most primarily copper based cables tend to have what the end result in my system(s) that have an upper end of the spectrum that is somewhat relaxed, while the lower registers of the frequency spectrum tend to be a little bit more pronounced when comparing them to a primarily silver based cable. On the flip side, the primarily silver based cables tend to have somewhat of the opposite end result. The upper end of the spectrum is somewhat exaggerated or "enhanced" while the lower registers of the frequency spectrum tend to be omitted or relaxed, if you will. All other aspects of each one of the cables performance can vary as much as Oprah's weight over the years.

Changes within all other aspects of the cables, I know you have heard. Well, at least I would expect you to have heard over the years. This includes but are not limited to height, depth and width perceptions, imaging characteristics, the ability to pass a debatable definition of micro and macro dynamics, natural roll off of the instruments, texture, articulation, natural presentations, perceived brightness, tonal characteristics, an instruments weight or authority, visceral impact, quietness, presentation and a plethora of other characteristics a set of cables can have. I can say with complete certainty that not one set of cables I have sounds exactly like another one. Not one. These differences have gotten even more noticeable as my audio journey and the resolution of my rig have progressed. The individual cables have also shown different characteristics within different configurations and different gear that have come and gone.

One of the characteristics specifically not mentioned in the paragraph above is the change in frequencies that I have touched on earlier with the sonic differences I have observed between the primarily silver or copper based cables. This is, what an EQ's primary function is, no? Or am I delusional?

I'll offer three very specific cables that I can use for a fixed "EQ" affect. The Silver Sonic BL-1 Series II, the AudioQuest King Cobra and the Transparent Reference IC's. In my various rig(s) and room(s) my rig has been in, the EQ [if you will] characteristics change with each cable set. Leaving out the other observations/characteristics/specifics of each cable, I will concentrate solely on my observations as to the frequency changes I have observed with just these three cables.

Silver Sonic BL-1 Series II - Mid, upper or extreme upper frequency boost, omitted or decreased lower registers, no extreme lower frequency extension.
AudioQuest King Cobra - Fairly linear throughout with slight roll off of extreme upper frequencies and extreme lower frequency extension somewhat non existent. A slight hump in the mid bass frequencies that produce an overponderance within that range of frequencies.
Transparent Reference - The most linear out of all three with excellent extreme lower frequency extension. No omission of any frequency.

Now as mentioned before, these characteristics can change somewhat depending on the gear or room used but in general, they remain the same. Mr. Rubinson, I'm not in any way trying to confront you but I am curious as to why a man with your experience would state such a thing. Would you mind clarifying a bit? I personally don't see why you would say someone would be delusional because a cable can not [as one of many factors] be utilized as a non adjustable EQ of sorts.

Tom
 

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