Magico S5

[cannata]

Anyone knowing about the ESL63 knows you can not judge them on these very limited Stereophile measurements, as acknowledged in the review you quote. Do you really think that the Q5 is flat?

http://www.stereophile.com/content/magico-q5-loudspeaker-measurements

I don't know about the Q5 and the validity of Stereophile measurements (you just dismissed them for the Quad and see Myles comment), but look at the Q3:



Regardless, this is getting silly, so I am going to bed.

 

[stereo]

No, I did not ignored it, I just don't think you are right. The Vivid, are not overall better measured, sorry - look at SS data again (and the Quad?? - http://www.stereophile.com/content/quad-esl-63-loudspeaker-measurements). Also, I don't think that the Qs are tailored, on the contrary they seems to be more linear then the S.

Agree with you. The Qs are not tailored at all. They are even flatter than the S, and even lower distortion. But the advantage of the S5 vs the Q3 is that it can play louder in the bass than the Q3 without distortion (so at 100 or 110dB distortion will be probably lower on a S5). Makes out if it more of a party speaker, or a great speaker for rock music.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Agree with you. The Qs are not tailored at all. They are even flatter than the S, and even lower distortion. But the advantage of the S5 vs the Q3 is that it can play louder in the bass than the Q3 without distortion (so at 100 or 110dB distortion will be probably lower on a S5). Makes out if it more of a party speaker, or a great speaker for rock music.

Sorry, that's all low distortion in the bass is worth? A party speaker? If you don't get the bass right, no speaker is going to sound good. Go play a cello or double bass - or even a harp - and listen and tell me that you can't hear the lower distortion as evidenced by a sense of ease to the instrument. Forget just organ. Where do you think the sense of space and dimensionality comes from? It starts in the low end and lowered distortion impacts that area too.

Now I'm not saying the S5 is better than the Q3; just don't discount the importance of the low end to the reproduction of the music. It allows the music to breathe.

 

[CharlesL]

Sorry, that's all low distortion in the bass is worth? A party speaker? If you don't get the bass right, no speaker is going to sound good. Go play a cello or double bass - or even a harp - and listen and tell me that you can't hear the lower distortion as evidenced by a sense of ease to the instrument. Forget just organ. Where do you think the sense of space and dimensionality comes from? It starts in the low end and lowered distortion impacts that area too.

Now I'm not saying the S5 is better than the Q3; just don't discount the importance of the low end to the reproduction of the music. It allows the music to breathe.

Well said.

I also think the more relaxed and supportive bass of the S5 makes it more convincing in projecting the scale of a full symphony orchestra in my environment.

 

[stereo]

Sorry, that's all low distortion in the bass is worth? A party speaker? If you don't get the bass right, no speaker is going to sound good. Go play a cello or double bass - or even a harp - and listen and tell me that you can't hear the lower distortion as evidenced by a sense of ease to the instrument. Forget just organ. Where do you think the sense of space and dimensionality comes from? It starts in the low end and lowered distortion impacts that area too.

Now I'm not saying the S5 is better than the Q3; just don't discount the importance of the low end to the reproduction of the music. It allows the music to breathe.

I agree with everything you wrote, so I believe you misunderstood me. Both S5 and Q3 are very low distortion in the bass. But if you play really loud (e.g. >100-110dB), the distortion in the bass of the S5 will rise slower than in case of Q3. "Party speaker" was not meant in a negative way, it was more to say it can play very loud, louder than Q3 while remaining at a very low distortion. Since I don't believe you would keep your golden ears if you usually listen at 100-110dB,I don't believe it is much relevant for normal listening sessions.
Both are excellent audiophile speakers, but the S5 is also a very good "party speaker", like the Q7 btw.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I agree with everything you wrote, so I believe you misunderstood me. Both S5 and Q3 are very low distortion in the bass. But if you play really loud (e.g. >100-110dB), the distortion in the bass of the S5 will rise slower than in case of Q3. "Party speaker" was not meant in a negative way, it was more to say it can play very loud, louder than Q3 while remaining at a very low distortion. Since I don't believe you would keep your golden ears if you usually listen at 100-110dB,I don't believe it is much relevant for normal listening sessions.
Both are excellent audiophile speakers, but the S5 is also a very good "party speaker", like the Q7 btw.

Oh OK, definitely was a language thing. I have/had a different connotation of a *party* speaker and understand your point now. There is something very special about the S5's low end performance and coherency with the rest of the speaker. We're not talking one note bass; the amount of detail and information -- not to mention dynamics -- revealed in the lower octaves is very impressive.

 

[LL21]

I agree with everything you wrote, so I believe you misunderstood me. Both S5 and Q3 are very low distortion in the bass. But if you play really loud (e.g. >100-110dB), the distortion in the bass of the S5 will rise slower than in case of Q3. "Party speaker" was not meant in a negative way, it was more to say it can play very loud, louder than Q3 while remaining at a very low distortion. Since I don't believe you would keep your golden ears if you usually listen at 100-110dB,I don't believe it is much relevant for normal listening sessions.
Both are excellent audiophile speakers, but the S5 is also a very good "party speaker", like the Q7 btw.

I really need to hear the Q7s...

 

[BlueFox]

I agree with everything you wrote, so I believe you misunderstood me. Both S5 and Q3 are very low distortion in the bass. But if you play really loud (e.g. >100-110dB), the distortion in the bass of the S5 will rise slower than in case of Q3. "Party speaker" was not meant in a negative way, it was more to say it can play very loud, louder than Q3 while remaining at a very low distortion.

I understand what you are saying. I picked up a pair of S5s in April, and I am still amazed at how loud, and with so little effort, they can play. Mostly I listen to string quartets but Friday, and maybe Saturday, nights are reserved for beer, and after a few, some rock. As the beer goes down, the volume goes up. There have been times I have just sat here at 100+db just amazed at how clear and precise they are at such high volume. When the random selection on the rock playlist hits a Lady Gaga song, the bass is intense. I am still amazed the S5s haven't melted into a pool of slag during these sessions. I love these speakers.

 

[XV-1]

How would a Avalon Eidolon Diamond compare to a S5 or a Wilson Sasha?

 

[flez007]

How would a Avalon Eidolon Diamond compare to a S5 or a Wilson Sasha?

I think you could expect a more coherent and soundstage presentation at the expense of less dynamics and bass extension.

 

[scouter]

I understand what you are saying. I picked up a pair of S5s in April, and I am still amazed at how loud, and with so little effort, they can play. Mostly I listen to string quartets but Friday, and maybe Saturday, nights are reserved for beer, and after a few, some rock. As the beer goes down, the volume goes up. There have been times I have just sat here at 100+db just amazed at how clear and precise they are at such high volume. When the random selection on the rock playlist hits a Lady Gaga song, the bass is intense. I am still amazed the S5s haven't melted into a pool of slag during these sessions. I love these speakers.

Bud,
That's the very reason I have a dB meter in my listening room. Not a problem when I'm listening with my wife- she doesn't like loud music- but when by myself, I can crank it up and risk hearing damage due to the S5's low distortion. The beauty of the S5s is you can still listen at low volumes and still hear it all - certainly not as much as with a Q 5 or Q 3, but enough for a great listening session.

 

[Bodhi]

Bud,
That's the very reason I have a dB meter in my listening room. Not a problem when I'm listening with my wife- she doesn't like loud music- but when by myself, I can crank it up and risk hearing damage due to the S5's low distortion. The beauty of the S5s is you can still listen at low volumes and still hear it all - certainly not as much as with a Q 5 or Q 3, but enough for a great listening session.

The DB meter is a good idea. The S5's are so smooth and linear, the volume can be deceiving. I think I will look into that! I also agree that when setup with gear of commensurate quality, the S5's are capable of wonderful low level detail.

 

[south]

I think you could expect a more coherent and soundstage presentation at the expense of less dynamics and bass extension.

They are different beasts. Avalon will be more coeherent and the soundstage is to my taste better. Magico S 5 is certainly more dynamic and with more bass. Certainly more spectacular but perhaps less involving. But that is very much a question of preference.

 

[MylesBAstor]

They are different beasts. Avalon will be more coeherent and the soundstage is to my taste better. Magico S 5 is certainly more dynamic and with more bass. Certainly more spectacular but perhaps less involving. But that is very much a question of preference.

Could you please expand upon what you don't like about the Magico's soundstaging? With what and where?

 

[rockitman]

Could you please expand upon what you don't like about the Magico's soundstaging? With what and where?

You know, all of these speakers on the hi end can soundstage well. It comes down to setup, room, electronics and mostly source. If it is digital source you can almost guarantee the soundstage will be scrunched compared to well sorted analog of the same music be it tape or vinyl.

 

[microstrip]

You know, all of these speakers on the hi end can soundstage well. It comes down to setup, room, electronics and mostly source. If it is digital source you can almost guarantee the soundstage will be scrunched compared to well sorted analog of the same music be it tape or vinyl.

Yes, most of them can soundstage well in a positional sense. But not all can expose good layering capatilities and positonal micro and macro dynamics - keeping these gradations locally without smearing all around the sounstage. BTW, it is something I appreciate in the Metronome Kalista and matching DAC - they manage to make digital close to analog in this aspect.

 

[BlueFox]

I understand what you are saying. I picked up a pair of S5s in April, and I am still amazed at how loud, and with so little effort, they can play. Mostly I listen to string quartets but Friday, and maybe Saturday, nights are reserved for beer, and after a few, some rock. As the beer goes down, the volume goes up. There have been times I have just sat here at 100+db just amazed at how clear and precise they are at such high volume. When the random selection on the rock playlist hits a Lady Gaga song, the bass is intense. I am still amazed the S5s haven't melted into a pool of slag during these sessions. I love these speakers.

I guess I praised these speakers a bit too soon. My neighbors recently moved so last night I thought I would go a bit higher with the volume to try and find an upper limit. The pre was in the low 80s for the first time and Foghat's Slow Ride was playing, when the right channel went out. All the electronics seemed fine, as did all connections. Today I attached a spare center channel speaker to the right channel's speaker cable, and it is fine. Hook the S5 back up, and nothing. There is a faint sound from the woofer, but nothing from the mid and tweeter.

Darn. Now to contact Magico on Monday to start the repair process. While I am disappointed here, my biggest regret is the agony of having to box it, ship it, get it back, and reverse the process.

 

[Elberoth]

Thanks Myles for posting your review. It's well written and very informative.

I used to live in NYC, and I am impressed with your rooms ability to handle a speaker the size of the S5. Could you talk a little bit about your room size and acoustic treatments? From the photographs, it looks like your room is on the smaller side with limited room treatment. Owning Magico mini monitors, I'm wondering how small a room can be for the S5 which is a relatively large speaker. Your very positive impressions seem to be consistent with what Alon Wolf told me, namely that his sealed speakers are able to be placed in smaller rooms than an equivalent sized ported speaker. I've only heard the S5 in two very large rooms.

Peter,

I have my S5s in a room which is 14x19, and has solid concrete ceiling / floor (limited bass leakage). The S5s fit just fine. I'm pretty sure the smaller S3 or Q3 would be perfect in your room.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Myles,

Just read your nice review of the Magico S5 - really a good work. However, considering it was made using only analog recorded material with SOTA sources, I think people using mainly digital sources should take it with many grains of salt. I own similar analog material and sources and digital, and I have found that opinions based mainly in red book material are many times quite different from those based in tape or vinyl. Just my 2 cent opinion ...

Also people should consider that the S5 costs 2.5 times more than the Summit X. BTW, I hope that sometime in the future we read your review and opinions on the Q3 or the Q5 - IMHO the last one would be a real partner to your275W ART amplifiers.

Upon further reflection Francisco, would you put 87 octane into a Ferrari and then complain about its sluggish acceleration?

 

[scooter]

How does the M-5 compare to the S-5/S-3? I have been leaning towards the S line but a pair of M-5s just popped up on Agon.