Magico M9

[Rhapsody]

Then put them to the test at the dealers place , 2 house CD s and 2 with orchestra / piano is all it takes with the volume right up there.
Expect no mercy for that kind of $$$

I make sure that I can play ANYTHING up to about 100db on most of my systems. Because there are those that listen at that level and then there are those that listen at 75db and also 85db. There can't be any issues at any level in my rooms.

Although putting speakers to a test, especially large scale speakers to a test, at a dealer's showroom, has NOTHING to do with what will happen in the customer's room. ESPECIALLY WITH BASS, which is room dependent.

 

[K3RMIT]

Exactly Peter. You get it. Most everything in life has compromises. Audio in general surely does.

With customers that I work with, we talk about all of this ad nauseum prior to them purchasing speakers, ESPECIALLY with a BIG set of speakers. The question is if they REALLY want the speakers can you make them work in the room??? Sometimes the answer is no. Other times it's yes, but it surely won't allow the speakers to "strut their stuff". But they enjoy the speakers that they want and in my past experiences I have found that it can sound REALLY GOOD, even though not playing at the sonic level that they would be playing in a larger, more ideal space.

People then make their decisions and we go from there.

Perfectly said bob

 

[Al M.]

Respectfully I said the right volume for the room. If people wanna screw up the sound then they should be advised otherwise. Every room IMHO has a ‘right volume’. Sad that people often overlook setting the volume correctly. It’s absolutely crucial.

if you can guide them on the equipment surely you can guide them on the room volume.

Or you force the room to behave at the volume levels that you want. That's what I achieved with all my experiments and adjustments over the years, in a room with some nasty acoustic flaws that I had to tame.

Yet it depends not just on getting the room acoustics right, but also on the gear choices and speaker positioning as to how loud the system can play with ease in a given room. That all those things interact with one another doesn't make it any easier.

 

[Cableman]

Or you force the room to behave at the volume levels that you want. That's what I achieved with all my experiments and adjustments over the years, in a room with some nasty acoustic flaws that I had to tame.

Yet it depends not just on getting the room acoustics right, but also on the gear choices and speaker positioning as to how loud the system can play with ease in a given room. That all those things interact with one another doesn't make it any easier.

Yup. I Know. That’s why setting the room volume right is crucial. It affects everything, and it is affected by everything in the room.

 

[Rhapsody]

Respectfully I said the right volume for the room. If people wanna screw up the sound then they should be advised otherwise. Every room IMHO has a ‘right volume’. Sad that people often overlook setting the volume correctly. It’s absolutely crucial.

if you can guide them on the equipment surely you can guide them on the room volume.

Most of the customers we are talking about here, via M9 customers have been into audio for 30, 40 or 50 years. They know what they are doing, have had MANY big time systems. They do what they want.

You can lead a horse to the water, but you can't make him drink.

Telling someone to play at the correct volume that you perceive to be the correct volume, can be a very tricky conversation.

in my experience the correct room volume is dependent on the person's hearing sensitivity. But that's just my experience. YMMV.

 

[PeterA]

Yup. I Know. That’s why setting the room volume right is crucial. It affects everything, and it is affected by everything in the room.

I am finding as my systems have improved and have greater resolution, each recording has an appropriate volume setting. Much of this depends on the listening perspective created by the mic placement or engineering/mastering decisions. If the perspective is mid hall, it sounds a bit strange to play it back at front seat volumes, and visa versa. The spatial cues should inform the listener of the proper perspective and thus listening volume.

Then there is also the solo cello or acoustic guitar versus the full orchestra. Does the listener want his/her system to present that realistically or not? So, the room and system choices and set up all factor in, but if things are fairly well matched and set up, and the system is highly resolving, then I have found that recordings have their own optimal or appropriate volume level. It is just more convincing that way, IMO, and thus more enjoyable, as long as the room and others in the house/apartment can handle it.

And then, as Bob writes, the owner's preferences usually trump all else.

 

[sbo6]

I think that each recording should be played back at the level that it was intended to be played back when recorded. Playing "Dark Side of the Moon" at 70db doesn't make much sense to me, BUT I've sat there and listened to it at that level to satisfy someone's preference.

It has a lot to do with how sensitive someones hearing is. Mine is shot

Based on who's assessment? the bass player? keyboardist? Drummer? Guitars? recording engineer? mastering engineer? There is no optimal level, it's completely subjective. However, there is a direct correlation between listening with spirits and higher SPLs

 

[Al M.]

I think that each recording should be played back at the level that it was intended to be played back when recorded. Playing "Dark Side of the Moon" at 70db doesn't make much sense to me, BUT I've sat there and listened to it at that level to satisfy someone's preference.

It has a lot to do with how sensitive someones hearing is. Mine is shot

Not sure. The frequency response of my hearing is, age related (I'm 59), not what it used to be but better than apparently the average in my age group. I still prefer my music loud, if appropriate. The concert hall for symphony is also loud (no, I don't listen to up-close orchestra levels at home), and even live chamber music can be loud in an intimate setting. And yeah, Pink Floyd "Dark Side of the Moon" needs to be rather loud as well. I just can't imagine it at 70 dB, what a torture.

I still do like to listen at a quite to very low volume to TV (at least when it's not action or music), and the volume setting has not really changed from what it was 10 or 15 years go.

 

[Cableman]

Most of the customers we are talking about here, via M9 customers have been into audio for 30, 40 or 50 years. They know what they are doing, have had MANY big time systems. They do what they want.

You can lead a horse to the water, but you can't make him drink.

Telling someone to play at the correct volume that you perceive to be the correct volume, can be a very tricky conversation.

in my experience the correct room volume is dependent on the person's hearing sensitivity. But that's just my experience. YMMV.

Understood but it’s not a ‘perception’. It’s playing at the right room volume to get the music in ‘balance’ ( for want of a better word). If they want to exaggerate high or lows or whatever then they’re destroying the integrity of the music.

 

[Rhapsody]

Understood but it’s not a ‘perception’. It’s playing at the right room volume to get the music in ‘balance’ ( for want of a better word). If they want to exaggerate high or lows or whatever then they’re destroying the integrity of the music.

People do all kind of weird stuff….

 

[Bobvin]

People do all kind of weird stuff….

A truer statement has never been written!

 

[wil]

I make sure that I can play ANYTHING up to about 100db on most of my systems. Because there are those that listen at that level and then there are those that listen at 75db and also 85db. There can't be any issues at any level in my rooms.

Although putting speakers to a test, especially large scale speakers to a test, at a dealer's showroom, has NOTHING to do with what will happen in the customer's room. ESPECIALLY WITH BASS, which is room dependent.

I think any discussion of volume levels has to be put in terms of the volume range, no?There’s usually at least a 20 DB range whenever I’m listening between average and peak db. I definitely would never want to listen to something at an average DB of 100!

 

[Rhapsody]

I think any discussion of volume levels has to be put in terms of the volume range, no?There’s usually at least a 20 DB range whenever I’m listening between average and peak db. I definitely would never want to listen to something at an average DB of 100!

I agree, but you would be surprised at how loud some people listen. In my old place more than once the super came up and said the people three floors down are complaining about the noise, when I had certain customers in, to hear the Avantgarde Trios and BH's. That was with Lamm Ml2s on them.

Like I said people do all kinds of weird stuff, including destroying their hearing.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I think any discussion of volume levels has to be put in terms of the volume range, no?There’s usually at least a 20 DB range whenever I’m listening between average and peak db. I definitely would never want to listen to something at an average DB of 100!

No, but if the sound is still well balanced at loud volumes with no break up
You re probably looking at a well designed speaker
Off course the freq response doesnt alter whether the volume is high or low .

( unless you start adjusting the MXO box again off course, with which you can alter FR )

 

[Cableman]

No, but if the sound is still well balanced at loud volumes with no break up
You re probably looking at a well designed speaker
Off course the freq response doesnt alter whether the volume is high or low .

( unless you start adjusting the MXO box again off course, with which you can alter FR )

Can’t stress enough it’s NOT about loudness it’s about the correct room volume. Oh and don’t think it’s real easy to set. It’s not. Tiny changes on the dial can be the difference between hearing everything ( relatively speaking) or info veiled and hence lost in the mire. Try it.

 

[MadFloyd]

Can’t stress enough it’s NOT about loudness it’s about the correct room volume. Oh and don’t think it’s real easy to set. It’s not. Tiny changes on the dial can be the difference between hearing everything ( relatively speaking) or info veiled and hence lost in the mire. Try it.

Are you saying info can be veiled by having the volume just a shade too low or too high?

 

[Cableman]

Are you saying info can be veiled by having the volume just a shade too low or too high?

Absolutely. I’ve been astonished at times to hear the difference. You think you’re set correctly, you mark you’re level, then for whatever reason you have to reset it and find it’s just a smidgeon out from the previous mark but boy are you experiencing another level. This was a true eye opener

 

[the sound of Tao]

I am finding as my systems have improved and have greater resolution, each recording has an appropriate volume setting. Much of this depends on the listening perspective created by the mic placement or engineering/mastering decisions. If the perspective is mid hall, it sounds a bit strange to play it back at front seat volumes, and visa versa. The spatial cues should inform the listener of the proper perspective and thus listening volume.

Then there is also the solo cello or acoustic guitar versus the full orchestra. Does the listener want his/her system to present that realistically or not? So, the room and system choices and set up all factor in, but if things are fairly well matched and set up, and the system is highly resolving, then I have found that recordings have their own optimal or appropriate volume level. It is just more convincing that way, IMO, and thus more enjoyable, as long as the room and others in the house/apartment can handle it.

And then, as Bob writes, the owner's preferences usually trump all else.

I wonder if a range of system and music variables can feed in to make this less or more critical. Tube systems do seem to have a clear rightness point that varies with different recordings and music types and can be to me critical.

Could also be a combination of factors including system and recording dynamics. Engaging the room and energising it is important with ribbon speakers for me so a tipping point of volume also seems very relevant here. Having a ladder volume control with 100 steps still each step on my pre makes getting right level more possible. There is more difference in rightness of volume in latitude on going into either of the horns here than into the Harbeths. For me also simply setting the volume level so it has apparent rightness for the music is just part of the routine.

Since going to the OBs with 8 x15 inch woofers total and wiring them parallel so going to 16ohm impedance there is more flow and the amp is working even better down in its early first watt or two range but also I’m listening and engaged at lower volumes than ever and only using the lower part of my volume control and quite often often just at a watt or two am musically clicked in and happy. It’s good to not have to blast to engage and the option of maintaining hearing is higher priority than ever.

I find each step on the volume is very critical for each different type of recording and is also in ways genre related. The scale of the music plays in here as well. The smaller horn OBs that I have with a total of 4 x 15 inch woofers wired at 8 ohms is slightly less volume sensitive and also has to work a touch harder to engage me and the room. The only time I pump up the volume on either is for massive attack or having a daft punk moment (the band not me lol) or generally with electronic dance music though it’s still possible to dance if there is coherence and musical flow is more evident. Sometimes with big symphonic it’s nice to give a bit more scale but I usually try and only turn up the volume to the point where it all clicks in. A poor performance or uninteresting music nothing clicks in at any rate.

I also am unsure if having subs doesn’t de-sensitise some a bit to volume and subsonics can be adrenals addictive so pumping up the volume can also be a bit of physical substance abuse.

There is very much for me a fairly exact rightness of volume for every recording but for less engaging systems that I have heard this does seem to me to be less critical.

 

[Cableman]

I wonder if a range of system and music variables can feed in to make this less or more critical. Tube systems do seem to have a clear rightness point that varies with different recordings and music types and can be to me critical.

Could also be a combination of factors including system and recording dynamics. Engaging the room and energising it is important with ribbon speakers for me so a tipping point of volume also seems very relevant here. Having a ladder volume control with 100 steps still each step on my pre makes getting right level more possible. There is more difference in rightness of volume in latitude on going into either of the horns here than into the Harbeths. For me also simply setting the volume level so it has apparent rightness for the music is just part of the routine.

Since going to the OBs with 8 x15 inch woofers total and wiring them parallel so going to 16ohm impedance there is more flow and the amp is working even better down in its early first watt or two range but also I’m listening and engaged at lower volumes than ever and only using the lower part of my volume control and quite often often just at a watt or two am musically clicked in and happy. It’s good to not have to blast to engage and the option of maintaining hearing is higher priority than ever.

I find each step on the volume is very critical for each different type of recording and is also in ways genre related. The scale of the music plays in here as well. The smaller horn OBs that I have with a total of 4 x 15 inch woofers wired at 8 ohms is slightly less volume sensitive and also has to work a touch harder to engage me and the room. The only time I pump up the volume on either is for massive attack or having a daft punk moment (the band not me lol) or generally with electronic dance music though it’s still possible to dance if there is coherence and musical flow is more evident. Sometimes with big symphonic it’s nice to give a bit more scale but I usually try and only turn up the volume to the point where it all clicks in. A poor performance or uninteresting music nothing clicks in at any rate.

I also am unsure if having subs doesn’t de-sensitise some a bit to volume and subsonics can be adrenals addictive so pumping up the volume can also be a bit of physical substance abuse.

There is very much for me a fairly exact rightness of volume for every recording but for less engaging systems that I have heard this does seem to me to be less critical.

I read with interest your fulsome post. I’m gonna agree to disagree.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I read with interest your fulsome post. I’m gonna agree to disagree.

All good, we all have a range of experiences, I’ve never been comfortable with the idea that we’re all here for the same reason or have the same experiences or perception.