Magico M9 vs. Magico Ultimate 3 Horn- Box vs. Horn! Which will be better? In which ways?
- Thread starter caesar
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No need to apologize. Do as you feel is right. I actually like you a lot and have learned a ton from your posts over the years, likely due to your tremendous technical knowledge, the fact that we have different tastes, and the fact we see the world quite differently (mine is through the lens of behavioral economics).
But they do not show in the measurements. May be without such components the speaker would sound average...
So what didn't you like about his impression, and the supporting data??
Sorry, but you are not making much sense. You can like whatever, but in many cases, it would be hard to rationalize it objectively (Audiophilia at its best). Not so hard if you like Magico
My preferred since long was the Q7 Mk2. Great speaker!
That’s not entirely accurate. Ferrite-core inductors (cheap), saturate easily, causing distortion to rise—that’s measurable, if distortion is measured.
Idk, many "great speakers" have crapy XO parts. Kidding aside, a good example is Revel. Good design, super cheap parts, but for the money, hard to beat.May be without such components the speaker would sound average...
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Hi Peter, I think you are right. most that have, heard it at a show or a dealer event. My friend, NOT A Magico guy, heard them at a private home with SET, and was blown away.
I wonder how many they actually sold. Probably not many, as there doesn't seem to be a big market for horns in NA. Hence they switched to uber expensive boxes... and I wonder if wolf would have the courage to admit this
It never really established itself as a "ultimate speaker", maybe because it uses DSP. Are there any "ultimate speakers" around doing that ? Except some Chinese circus horns.
I support Caesar and agree with much of what he posts. His perspective is refreshing.
Allow meOf course, I’ve heard the AG Trio G3 with its dual basshorns. Just put a solo piano through that setup and tell me you don’t hear the excessive coloration in the mid-bass—not to mention the plasticky character in the treble. It’s an impressive speaker, like most horns, on certain pieces. But this isn’t my idea of an ultimate setup.
If you want to see/hear what reference loudspeakers look like, just check out the new S5—arguably the most impressive speaker JA has ever measured (and heard). Unlike some audiophiles, I actually prefer well-engineered loudspeakers.
Magico S5 2024 loudspeaker | Stereophile.com
I have lost track of how many loudspeakers I have measured with DRA Labs' MLSSA system since Stereophile started accompanying its reviews with measurements in the late 1980s, but it must be close to 1000. Most of those speakers have long since faded from my memory, but there are some whose...www.stereophile.com
Being totally Objective , the 83db 1w/m sensitivity as measured coupled with the accompanying Impedance mag/phase measured eliminates much of the SS market and all tubes amplifiers if optimum performance is to be obtained, very few 1-2 ohm capable amplifiers exist today ..
So choose wisely
Aside, known knowns of loudspeaker design with small scale point source loudspeakers as this model is , means for proper spectral balance you are gonna throw away some sensitivity , high sensitivity with proper spectral balance and timbre is actually very difficult to achieve unless its a multi driver very large format design..
The crossover point of 4.5k from mid to twt is usually spot on for 1” domes IMO and the very low impedance at high freq suggest Alon has discovered the use of rigorous twt xover magic Dust to enhance the high freq.
Marketing and philes love it .. Bravo ..!
Nothing really to fault here , still to this day i cant understand why JA wont do outdoor GP measurements , very accurate in capturing the bass response ..
This is a well engineered loudspeaker as mentioned , there are the usual caveats necessary to achieve (obvious in the step response in the time domain and the Impedance measurements ) design goals , as it is for everything and everyone in the audio world …!
How would any hi-fi system and specifically speakers sound when installed in an environment that includes:
Mega amounts of RFI
High ambient noise levels
Non-optimised room acoustics
Overloaded non-optimised mains supply with hundreds of cheap, super-noisy, consumer grade SMPSs
Minimum warm-up and bed-in time
Electronics and cables selected based on marketing reasons
Would one use the above environment to audition and judge loudspeakers?
To answer my own question, probably not, but its worth bearing in mind that that’s what we’re talking about here for the M9s.
Mega amounts of RFI
High ambient noise levels
Non-optimised room acoustics
Overloaded non-optimised mains supply with hundreds of cheap, super-noisy, consumer grade SMPSs
Minimum warm-up and bed-in time
Electronics and cables selected based on marketing reasons
Would one use the above environment to audition and judge loudspeakers?
To answer my own question, probably not, but its worth bearing in mind that that’s what we’re talking about here for the M9s.
Most of WBF members never listened to Lamm, particularly the ML3 or Lamm LL1. So most of our discussion on Lamm is just speculation?
Two old speakers that are completely different from current Magico's - IMO their sound is not representative of Magico sound. I owned and loved the Mini Magico, never was a fan of the Q5 - it sounded restrained, even with very powerful amplifiers.
Yes, no speaker is perfect - this is an hobby of compromises and biases.
IMO also with the depth of our pockets, as people say. Value for money is always behind my choices.
Distortion versus power and frequency, compression, very poor presentation of the dispersion measurements, no EPR versus frequency, misleading poor bass technique measurement. The lack of reference room for the in room measurements - they are topically taken at the reviewer room can be misleading for less careful readers. But surely they are much better than nothing!
I actually disagree with this one. It’s true that not a lot of people I’ve heard Lamm particularly the ML3, but the discussions here at WBF are driven by DDK, Tim, me, Ron, Jeff Tyo, Steve, and a lot of people who have heard David Karmeli’s system and some who have heard my system that has the LL1 including Al M and MadFloyd. Then there is Tang. That’s quite a few members and many more than ever heard the Magico ultimate horn system. Just read the five or six system visit threads about David Karmeli system in Utah. That’s a lot of members posting a lot of stuff and they have direct experience.
We are talking about the Magico ultimate horn system, which was developed around the time of the mini. This was early days at Magico. The design . Was similar, so I think very relevant to the discussion. And I had the Q3, not the Q5. A much friendlier system. I have heard the M series and they are not that far removed. The sound is very representative of the magical sound although it has evolved overtime. I agree that the Q5 sounded constricted because it was incredibly difficult to drive.
Some are better than others.
Surely.
Again, I am addressing the present, not the glorious past.
A good friend has the MPro - sorry, they do not play in same league of Q3 or Q5. The same way the Q7 was somewhat restricted and with a few modifications the Q7mkII became a brilliant speaker.
No speaker sounds constricted because it is " incredibly difficult to drive. " It can sound constricted because it is being driven by an inadequate amplifier, or simply because it is a poor design. IMO the early designs of Magico were not consistent - Alon Wolf needed some time to define his sound type.
More people here commenting on sound of Lamm have heard Lamm. Few have heard the Magico horn.
Thanks Peter!. I would tend to think that encouraging people to find their own way, adopt a growth mindset, and think for themselves, instead of following herds, are an agenda for human flourishing and satisfaction in this hobby and in life. But not in the audiophile world. Really appreciate it!
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