Magico M6 on TAS

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
3,886
14
38
Greater Boston
#42
I just replaced my Spectral preamp, and only now hear some of the issues my old one had (Major issues in comparison). It never bother me before, but there is no going back now...
Exactly. When I wrote my review on my current speakers I was not aware of all the problems they have and which I hope to address with the upgrade. If for example I had known the issues with reproduction of orchestra and piano to the fuller extent as I perceive them now, I might have mentioned them (even though of course I always knew that orchestral was lacking compared to the Magico M Project speakers, but not in the detail that I am aware of now -- but that is also a completely different price class).

We all rave about the newest equipment that we have. Davey is fully enthusiastic about his new Jadis amps, and he should be. However, if he goes for an upgrade in a few years he will be more aware of the limitations, or he will upgrade because of this awareness. This does not mean that he is dishonest in his current enthusiasm.

If, as I have all the reasons to assume, Davey isn't dishonest in his enthusiasm for his new amps, he also should be more hesitant of accusing JV of dishonesty in his enthusiasm for the next "best toy" in audio.
 

cannata

New Member
Jan 31, 2014
371
0
0
Italy
#43
Hahaha. JV sold out a long time ago cannata - seriously. The biggest non-secret in audio.
I don't know and I don't care, you can gossip on anyone, he is just a reporter not my doctor. I read his reviews and in most cases see his point. Not to mention that I think he is a great writer and get the coolest toys I can only dream on. I will never order anything base on a review only, unless I have confident in the manufacturer as well, not just the reviewer say.
 
May 30, 2010
13,964
41
48
Portugal
#44
IMHO most people get the wrong idea of the overall audio reviewing process because they only read what is free and in the net. TheAbsoluteSound and Stereophile are paid publications, each with several reviewers and each copy has many reviews, opinion articles, interviews and even letters and comments. I subscribe to them and get the full information, managing to see that the magazines try to keep a overall balance between the most significant products - I have no doubts that they are surely influenced by advertisers, show and dinner payers. Manufacturers support them, as they need them as an advertising and communication channel - and surely expect some gratitude for it! :)

IMHO just seeing the tip of the iceberg is not enough to navigate in high-end waters ... Particularly because many times the tip is sponsored content ...
 

DaveC

[Industry Expert]
Nov 16, 2014
2,178
0
36
#45
Exactly. When I wrote my review on my current speakers I was not aware of all the problems they have and which I hope to address with the upgrade. If for example I had known the issues with reproduction of orchestra and piano to the fuller extent as I perceive them now, I might have mentioned them (even though of course I always knew that orchestral was lacking compared to the Magico M Project speakers, but not in the detail that I am aware of now -- but that is also a completely different price class).

We all rave about the newest equipment that we have. Davey is fully enthusiastic about his new Jadis amps, and he should be. However, if he goes for an upgrade in a few years he will be more aware of the limitations, or he will upgrade because of this awareness. This does not mean that he is dishonest in his current enthusiasm.

If, as I have all the reasons to assume, Davey isn't dishonest in his enthusiasm for his new amps, he also should be more hesitant of accusing JV of dishonesty in his enthusiasm for the next "best toy" in audio.
I haven't read many JV reviews but the thought that the shortcomings of a piece of gear aren't evident until a new, improved version comes out that highlights the flaws certainly makes sense. Tons of people are surprised by improvements they thought weren't possible but we don't criticize them for not realizing there were indeed shortcomings before the improvement highlighted those flaws.
 

DaveyF

Active Member
Aug 1, 2010
5,633
4
38
La Jolla, Calif USA
#46
Exactly. When I wrote my review on my current speakers I was not aware of all the problems they have and which I hope to address with the upgrade. If for example I had known the issues with reproduction of orchestra and piano to the fuller extent as I perceive them now, I might have mentioned them (even though of course I always knew that orchestral was lacking compared to the Magico M Project speakers, but not in the detail that I am aware of now -- but that is also a completely different price class).

We all rave about the newest equipment that we have. Davey is fully enthusiastic about his new Jadis amps, and he should be. However, if he goes for an upgrade in a few years he will be more aware of the limitations, or he will upgrade because of this awareness. This does not mean that he is dishonest in his current enthusiasm.

If, as I have all the reasons to assume, Davey isn't dishonest in his enthusiasm for his new amps, he also should be more hesitant of accusing JV of dishonesty in his enthusiasm for the next "best toy" in audio.
Well thank you Al, that's nice of you to think that way...LOL.

I think what is still being missed here is the fact that JV has NEVER heard a flagship product that he did not rave about. Then, the VERY NEXT review of the next flagship and the warts of the prior product 'magically' come to life. Guys, i do NOT believe that there are these type of advances in our hobby in that short a time. If you do...good for you.
My enthusiasm for my new amps has to do with the ability of their reproduction vs. other amps I have heard ( and I have heard many). Not in relation to the 'real', because in that category, they fail miserably!! ( as does everything else out there, IMO).
However, IF i was to write a review of this product ( or any product for that matter) and I understood the short falls of it at the time ( and please don't tell me that JV has this miracle epiphany every time he reviews the next latest and greatest) of the review, I certainly WOULD bring them to light, that to me is being intellectually honest. I ask you, has JV EVER done this...??:confused:
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
3,886
14
38
Greater Boston
#47
Well thank you Al, that's nice of you to think that way...LOL.
You're welcome, Davey, I am a nice guy. LOL.

I think what is still being missed here is the fact that JV has NEVER heard a flagship product that he did not rave about. Then, the VERY NEXT review of the next flagship and the warts of the prior product 'magically' come to life. Guys, i do NOT believe that there are these type of advances in our hobby in that short a time. If you do...good for you.
My enthusiasm for my new amps has to do with the ability of their reproduction vs. other amps I have heard ( and I have heard many). Not in relation to the 'real', because in that category, they fail miserably!! ( as does everything else out there, IMO).
However, IF i was to write a review of this product ( or any product for that matter) and I understood the short falls of it at the time ( and please don't tell me that JV has this miracle epiphany every time he reviews the next latest and greatest) of the review, I certainly WOULD bring them to light, that to me is being intellectually honest. I ask you, has JV EVER done this...??:confused:
And I think you still miss the points that several of us have made the last few hours.

Also, of course every audio component falls short of the real thing. Do you want to spend half of the text of every review outlining which are the shortcomings compared to actual live music? That would get boring really quickly, since the shortcomings for any component vs. live are often the same. As I see it, I would severely fault JV's review for mostly just one thing:

To hear a great LP of a vocalist, like Dean Martin on the exceptional Analogue Recordings reissue of Dream With Dean, through the M6 is not just to hear a wonderful singer singing wonderful songs in wonderful sound. It is to hear Dean Martin, gone now almost 23 years, live again—there in front of you, standing in the studio he was recorded in, with that U47 hanging a few inches above his face. It is to bring back the past wholly intact. (End quote)

The bolded part is problematic. Perhaps he could have said "it brings back an illusion of the actual past event to a degree as I have never heard before". This of course doesn't sound as dramatic, but it might be more accurate.
 

DaveyF

Active Member
Aug 1, 2010
5,633
4
38
La Jolla, Calif USA
#49
Al, I'm not even talking about how JV fails to consider how the gear in question compares to the 'real'....although that is a factor that I think he should alert us to every once in a while ( and which I thought HP did a pretty good job of). Instead, what i am stating is that he fails to compare the piece in question to what he apparently sees as a 'problem' in the very next hyperbole laced review. We're not talking about a review from him in a few years or months time, when he has had a chance to really fully digest the gear in question and to ( as luck would have it) now listen to a superior product. No, we are talking about the VERY next piece of gear in the reviewing line that happens to be a flagship from somebody. So, again, do you believe that every few weeks, or even days, a piece comes along that completely outshines the last review in the areas that he states?? Read his review of the Maggie 30.7's and then the new M6's....NONE of what he brought to light about the 30.7's in his review of the Magico M6 was heard in his original 30.7 review??? I don't buy it.
 

PeterA

Active Member
Dec 7, 2011
4,881
12
38
North Shore of Boston
#50
My main point is that they lost their integrity in my view: what about all the great products - maybe ‘better’ and (much) cheaper - of manufacturors that do not want to play along this ‘wining and dining’ approach and as a consequence do not get a rave review?

So to me it is not a matter of (not) being of part of the game but an approach that is principly flawed.
I see you point. I don't know what to say about the other manufacturers. They choose not to play the game and must build brand awareness in other ways. It must be tough, but it is their choice. TAS serves it's own needs and those of the reviewers. I happen to like JV's writing and some of his reviews have encouraged me to seek out auditions. Perhaps TAS was more reader focused before, I don't know. I would love to see comparative reviews with less hyperbole and marketing speak. Times have changed, and I guess manufacturers have to adapt. Audiophiles have also adapted as traditional dealers shut their doors. Forums play a role as to audio shows and visiting friends' systems.

These are interesting and difficult times. Demographics are also an issue. Yet, I am thrilled that gear does seem to be improving, especially in the area of speakers.

The American Sound table, despite its extremely high price, had its entire limited production run sold by word of mouth. Shiit? Audio seems to have arrived from nowhere, same with Kronos and Acoustical Systems. Magico did not exist twelve years ago, nor did Solution or TechDAS. SME barely advertises. Acousticsounds sells Pass Labs. There seem to be many approaches. The TAS rave review and advertising model seems to be only one approach. It must be brutal for upstarts, but the established companies seem to be thriving.
 

Odyssey

New Member
Mar 15, 2015
20
0
1
#51
I get that JV has made his bed over time on the raves, and so there is that. but also agree that his reviews do contain lots of great information not otherwise easily attained.

and I will always appreciate his review in 2000 about the Kharma Exquisite 1C that caused me to step up and buy them sight unseen (i'd never seen any Kharma in the flesh let alone heard the big Exquisites); and it was a great move for me on many levels. so JV get's a lifetime pass from me.
One of the assets that one must possess in this hobby is the ability to separate the wheat from the chaff.

There are pearls in what JV says and then there are other comments.

One must sift through.

I for one enjoy reading JV's reviews. They written in an entertaining and also informative way.
 

caesar

Active Member
May 31, 2010
2,933
0
36
#52
Exactly. When I wrote my review on my current speakers I was not aware of all the problems they have and which I hope to address with the upgrade. If for example I had known the issues with reproduction of orchestra and piano to the fuller extent as I perceive them now, I might have mentioned them (even though of course I always knew that orchestral was lacking compared to the Magico M Project speakers, but not in the detail that I am aware of now -- but that is also a completely different price class).

We all rave about the newest equipment that we have. Davey is fully enthusiastic about his new Jadis amps, and he should be. However, if he goes for an upgrade in a few years he will be more aware of the limitations, or he will upgrade because of this awareness. This does not mean that he is dishonest in his current enthusiasm.

If, as I have all the reasons to assume, Davey isn't dishonest in his enthusiasm for his new amps, he also should be more hesitant of accusing JV of dishonesty in his enthusiasm for the next "best toy" in audio.
Hi Al, valid point. But "sterile" Jon has at least half a dozen other reference speakers in his home, including logans, raidhos, avant gardes, etc. By comparing his magico experience to the experience of other reference speakers, the differences come through.

Obviously, he likes magico and has it free for life. He didn't even bother going to Heilbronner's house to hear the Wilson wamm, while Heilbruener came to his house to hear the new magnepan. His argument is that m6 speaker is he best "because I imagine it sounding most real in my mind".

But not everyone has the same taste as him. Just like "sterile" Jon had the fight with "great" Peter Breuninger about the best turntable, him and Peter McGrath should fight it out about whether the m6 is better than the wamm. :)
 

DaveyF

Active Member
Aug 1, 2010
5,633
4
38
La Jolla, Calif USA
#53
One of the assets that one must possess in this hobby is the ability to separate the wheat from the chaff.
.
LMAO. isn't that what a previous "king" of all a'philes had to say before he decided not to grace us with his presence anymore.
Luckily, your context is different from that "king"....:eek::cool:
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
3,886
14
38
Greater Boston
#54
LMAO. isn't that what a previous "king" of all a'philes had to say before he decided not to grace us with his presence anymore.
Luckily, your context is different from that "king"....:eek::cool:
Hehe ;). But I guess that's an inside joke for many who haven't followed the story. Anyway thanks, Davey, for having been so instrumental in removing the "king" from this forum (or rather, causing his 'self-deportation';)). Much appreciated from one fellow audiophile to another.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
7,092
21
38
#55
why do Magico focused threads always come off the rails? it seems like the posting takes a dark, nasty turn. like the gapers block on the freeway when there is an accident in the far lanes. we want to see if there is any blood.

time for music. a little Debussy tonight I think....
 

Audiocrack

Active Member
Aug 10, 2012
1,902
0
36
#57
I see you point. I don't know what to say about the other manufacturers. They choose not to play the game and must build brand awareness in other ways. It must be tough, but it is their choice. TAS serves it's own needs and those of the reviewers. I happen to like JV's writing and some of his reviews have encouraged me to seek out auditions. Perhaps TAS was more reader focused before, I don't know. I would love to see comparative reviews with less hyperbole and marketing speak. Times have changed, and I guess manufacturers have to adapt. Audiophiles have also adapted as traditional dealers shut their doors. Forums play a role as to audio shows and visiting friends' systems.

These are interesting and difficult times. Demographics are also an issue. Yet, I am thrilled that gear does seem to be improving, especially in the area of speakers.

The American Sound table, despite its extremely high price, had its entire limited production run sold by word of mouth. Shiit? Audio seems to have arrived from nowhere, same with Kronos and Acoustical Systems. Magico did not exist twelve years ago, nor did Solution or TechDAS. SME barely advertises. Acousticsounds sells Pass Labs. There seem to be many approaches. The TAS rave review and advertising model seems to be only one approach. It must be brutal for upstarts, but the established companies seem to be thriving.
Also in my view JV is a good writer and I enjoyed reading his stuff many moons ago. However, when I discovered how they operate TAS and how manufacturors are being forced to go along if they want attention in TAS, I lost my faith and canceled my subscription.

A good writer with ‘bad’ or flawed ethics that dominate his or TAS’ choice of products that are being reviewed and possibly - or should I say: likely? - influence the outcome of the review significantly in my view disqualifies himself as (an independant) reviewer.

So for me it is not about Magico (loudspeakers) - although this company renders the services that TAS/the mentioned reviewers of TAS require - but the fact that this magazine’s ethical behavior is - to put it mildly - questionable.
 
Last edited:
Jul 18, 2014
577
11
18
#58
I find myself agreeing in some ways with most every post in this thread.

He is clearly a good writer, has a strong capacity to describe sounds, I’d clearly say that he is quite formulaic in his approach in always nominating a best in some form or other to add a bit of flash of excitement plus hyperbole and there is almost always something best ever about most of his reviews eg best at something or other as a specific quality while not overall best. The best he has heard is something he clearly feels adds to reputation and perhaps at some level he has become a bit of an opinion maker.

The fact that Maggie’s are never far from his rave list is nice but then sometimes there is a bit of inflation and puffery in his attitude which is less attractive than his actual writing skills. In short he is a human being, he is definitely gifted with strengths and weaknesses, he is clearly an audiophile in character (for both good and for bad) and he is probably doing what he does both for love and commercial interest. I’m not sure he is truly any more flawed than many in this business. Whether you choose to read him or not is in some ways made easier because he is reliably predictable so you know what you are buying into when you start to read.
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
3,886
14
38
Greater Boston
#59
I find myself agreeing in some ways with most every post in this thread.

He is clearly a good writer, has a strong capacity to describe sounds, I’d clearly say that he is quite formulaic in his approach in always nominating a best in some form or other to add a bit of flash of excitement plus hyperbole and there is almost always something best ever about most of his reviews eg best at something or other as a specific quality while not overall best. The best he has heard is something he clearly feels adds to reputation and perhaps at some level he has become a bit of an opinion maker.

The fact that Maggie’s are never far from his rave list is nice but then sometimes there is a bit of inflation and puffery in his attitude which is less attractive than his actual writing skills. In short he is a human being, he is definitely gifted with strengths and weaknesses, he is clearly an audiophile in character (for both good and for bad) and he is probably doing what he does both for love and commercial interest. I’m not sure he is truly any more flawed than many in this business. Whether you choose to read him or not is in some ways made easier because he is reliably predictable so you know what you are buying into when you start to read.
Thank you for this balanced view.
 
Sep 6, 2013
247
1
18
Dallas area
#60
I find myself agreeing in some ways with most every post in this thread.

He is clearly a good writer, has a strong capacity to describe sounds, I’d clearly say that he is quite formulaic in his approach in always nominating a best in some form or other to add a bit of flash of excitement plus hyperbole and there is almost always something best ever about most of his reviews eg best at something or other as a specific quality while not overall best. The best he has heard is something he clearly feels adds to reputation and perhaps at some level he has become a bit of an opinion maker.

The fact that Maggie’s are never far from his rave list is nice but then sometimes there is a bit of inflation and puffery in his attitude which is less attractive than his actual writing skills. In short he is a human being, he is definitely gifted with strengths and weaknesses, he is clearly an audiophile in character (for both good and for bad) and he is probably doing what he does both for love and commercial interest. I’m not sure he is truly any more flawed than many in this business. Whether you choose to read him or not is in some ways made easier because he is reliably predictable so you know what you are buying into when you start to read.
+1. A few further thoughts. Many of us have been involved in this hobby a LOOONNNNGGGGG time and we know what the deal is with the magazines these days. JV is an excellent writer, he describes what he is hearing well. Fact is I’ve heard systems with Wilson, YG, Rockport, Magico, Zellaton, and a few others all sound wonderful. I think that is where we are these days. There is no shortage of well made, well thought out designs but not all of them appeal to every one of us let alone the cost of these products.

I’m eager to hear the M6. I’m not considering buying it but would love to hear how it presents music. If I do, I’ll let everyone know what I think and please do the same if anyone gets the chance to hear it.
 

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