Magico M6 on TAS

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2010
6,135
133
63
La Jolla, Calif USA
#2
A typical JV hyperbole rave. JV apparently now feels that the new M6 is FAR superior to his last rave....the Maggie 30.7. Why is that this guy doesn't realize he is comparing apples to oranges??
Sure the M6 is going to be better than the 30.7-- and so are numerous other box speakers with large dynamic drivers and decent tweets; in the areas he describes.
But for $172K---yes that what the price of the new M6 will be, ( Not sure why so little, as I would have thought that $1.72 Million would have set a better example, LOL) it darn well better be able, in the ways that JV stated. IMO, another fairly pathetic review from this particular writer...why? because nowhere do I read about the many failings of this speaker! And don't kid yourself, compared to the 'real' there are numerous issues ( just like every other speaker extant). IMHO, these days, anyone who simply gushes hyperbole in an audio review isn't worth my time to read.
 

BMCG

VIP/Donor
Oct 1, 2016
204
3
18
United Kingdom
#4
ok..but fair turns....the M6 is hardly an outlier with respect to cost...at least not on WBF

cf: XLF...Evolution MM7....La Assoluta...Pendragon.....
 

GMKF

VIP/Donor
Aug 15, 2017
396
48
28
Munich
#6
A typical JV hyperbole rave. JV apparently now feels that the new M6 is FAR superior to his last rave....the Maggie 30.7. Why is that this guy doesn't realize he is comparing apples to oranges??
Sure the M6 is going to be better than the 30.7-- and so are numerous other box speakers with large dynamic drivers and decent tweets; in the areas he describes.
But for $172K---yes that what the price of the new M6 will be, ( Not sure why so little, as I would have thought that $1.72 Million would have set a better example, LOL) it darn well better be able, in the ways that JV stated. IMO, another fairly pathetic review from this particular writer...why? because nowhere do I read about the many failings of this speaker! And don't kid yourself, compared to the 'real' there are numerous issues ( just like every other speaker extant). IMHO, these days, anyone who simply gushes hyperbole in an audio review isn't worth my time to read.
Sure it is. But I'm wondering after Harleys "positive" review of the Rockport Lyra, if we will see the "double" Magico review systems abolished.
JV with the Magico MPro/M6 and Harley with the Rockport. Just a guess.
I also wonder why JV didnt compare the M6 to the Zellatons he so loved in his preview-review and that won best of show in munich.

And I also wonder why JV hasn't heard the WAMM :confused:
 
Jan 31, 2014
404
7
18
Italy
#7
This site has become so depressing, instead of rejoicing the fact that someone out there is reporting, in an extremely articulated and entertaining way, about a product that most of us will never get to hear (and, no matter what anyone will say, is very interesting, to say the least), you complain. People like DaveF that claims that reading JV reviews is not worth their time, does expect us to waste our time and read his constant rant. What a pity…
How about some (relevant) comments to the merit of the review, or the interview that followed, is that too much thinking to ask for?
 

kkfan

New Member
Jan 4, 2016
17
0
1
#8
A typical JV hyperbole rave. JV apparently now feels that the new M6 is FAR superior to his last rave....the Maggie 30.7. Why is that this guy doesn't realize he is comparing apples to oranges??
Sure the M6 is going to be better than the 30.7-- and so are numerous other box speakers with large dynamic drivers and decent tweets; in the areas he describes.
But for $172K---yes that what the price of the new M6 will be, ( Not sure why so little, as I would have thought that $1.72 Million would have set a better example, LOL) it darn well better be able, in the ways that JV stated. IMO, another fairly pathetic review from this particular writer...why? because nowhere do I read about the many failings of this speaker! And don't kid yourself, compared to the 'real' there are numerous issues ( just like every other speaker extant). IMHO, these days, anyone who simply gushes hyperbole in an audio review isn't worth my time to read.
This is why I so enjoy Ron’s reviews. Very well balanced.
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
4,408
299
83
Greater Boston
#9
This site has become so depressing, instead of rejoicing the fact that someone out there is reporting, in an extremely articulated and entertaining way, about a product that most of us will never get to hear (and, no matter what anyone will say, is very interesting, to say the least), you complain. People like DaveF that claims that reading JV reviews is not worth their time, does expect us to waste our time and read his constant rant. What a pity…
How about some (relevant) comments to the merit of the review, or the interview that followed, is that too much thinking to ask for?
I have to strongly disagree with Davey here also, the review is about a truly extraordinary speaker, and it is extremely well written. At least for those who are familiar with what Magico wants to achieve and have heard good sounding representations of the brand. I have heard the predecessor of the M6, the Magico M Project, many times in Ian's (Madfloyd's) system. I am quite familiar with it by now and have followed the journey towards a truly great sound with these speakers, which is not easy to achieve since they expose every flaw in the system, being so transparent. Yes, no speaker is perfect, but there are many things admirable and enjoyable about the M Project, and at its best in can draw you into certain performances like no other speaker I have heard. In particular, to date I have never heard as convincing reproduction of orchestra and of close-up piano from any other speaker (and boy, can it rock, that sealed-enclosure bass is something, in rhythm, definition, resolution, and it has great impact too). When JV speaks about the utter lack of distortion and of harmonic integrity, I know precisely what he means. The harmonic integrity and coherence of piano sound is unparalled, and requires heroic efforts in terms of resonance-free cabinet, superior drivers, and crossovers. I love my system, and think it is very good at so many aspects of music reproduction, and in some ways even piano may be found to be impressive on it. Yet when it comes to harmonic integrity and coherence of representation of sound from this instrument, my system falls so woefully short compared to what I hear from the M Project -- it''s not even funny. If the M6 goes even further than the M Project on this, that would be really extraordinary.

The only thing that puzzles me about JV's comments is the allegedly not so great integration of midrange and treble on the M Project. I find this aspect to be a particular strength of the speaker, without which the aforementioned piano sound would not be possible.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
6,359
824
113
Beverly Hills, CA
#10
1) Jonathan writes in this review that he prefers the power range and the dynamic impact of the M6 over the 30.7. It would have been interesting if Jonathan had grafted the Gothams or the Q-Subs onto the 30.7s and compared the combination to the M6 (even with subs the 30.7s are a fraction of the price of M6s).

2) Between the "accuracy" contingent on the one side and the "musicality" contingent on the other lies the "absolute sound" contingent? I think Jonathan's rewriting of the taxonomy of high-end listeners is not nearly as insightful as our discussions here last year.

Last year, with much discussion and analysis, we produced four alternative, but not mutually exclusive, objectives of high-end audio:

1) recreate the sound of an original musical event,

2) reproduce exactly what is on the master tape,

3) create a sound subjectively pleasing to the audiophile, and

4) create a sound that seems live.​
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2010
6,135
133
63
La Jolla, Calif USA
#11
I have to strongly disagree with Davey here also, the review is about a truly extraordinary speaker, and it is extremely well written. At least for those who are familiar with what Magico wants to achieve and have heard good sounding representations of the brand. I have heard the predecessor of the M6, the Magico M Project, many times in Ian's (Madfloyd's) system. I am quite familiar with it by now and have followed the journey towards a truly great sound with these speakers, which is not easy to achieve since they expose every flaw in the system, being so transparent. Yes, no speaker is perfect, but there are many things admirable and enjoyable about the M Project, and at its best in can draw you into certain performances like no other speaker I have heard. In particular, to date I have never heard as convincing reproduction of orchestra and of close-up piano from any other speaker (and boy, can it rock, that sealed-enclosure bass is something, in rhythm, definition, resolution, and it has great impact too). When JV speaks about the utter lack of distortion and of harmonic integrity, I know precisely what he means. The harmonic integrity and coherence of piano sound is unparalled, and requires heroic efforts in terms of resonance-free cabinet, superior drivers, and crossovers. I love my system, and think it is very good at so many aspects of music reproduction, and in some ways even piano may be found to be impressive on it. Yet when it comes to harmonic integrity and coherence of representation of sound from this instrument, my system falls so woefully short compared to what I hear from the M Project -- it''s not even funny. If the M6 goes even further than the M Project on this, that would be really extraordinary.

The only thing that puzzles me about JV's comments is the allegedly not so great integration of midrange and treble on the M Project. I find this aspect to be a particular strength of the speaker, without which the aforementioned piano sound would not be possible.
Al, too bad that you and cannata failed to see my point.
So, I ask you...how many times are you going to defend a reviewer like JV, who flip flops as much as he does?
One minute the Magico M6 is the best, then it is the next flavor of the month and so on and so on. If I read his review of the Maggie 30.7 ( and I did) and his past review of the Zellatons and before that the Raidho’s and so on...I would come to the conclusion ( solely based on his hyperbole laced review of each speaker) that every one of these contenders sounds like the real thing! No real reason to buy anything else.
Yet, along comes the next flavor of the month, and JV says something about his last loves warts and scars!
Where were these flaws in the review that he wrote before??
While you may very well like the Magico MPro and/ or the new M6, that’s not my point here....reading JV’s review would lead one to believe they are the perfect speaker...YAWN. No real discrimination on his behalf at all....and frankly I’m getting sick and tired of this kind of reviewer...everything is just perfect....until the next time.
Come on guys, are you really ok with that style of reviewing??:confused:
 

BMCG

VIP/Donor
Oct 1, 2016
204
3
18
United Kingdom
#12
Setting aside the merits of JVs frequent re-basing of "leading edge"...

and reading the Q&A with Alon..

Was struck by Alon's perspective on the relative merits of Phase/Time coherence in terms of delivering/designing loudspeakers...

Clearly a stark contrast to the the Vandersteen/Wilson Audio design philosophies.
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
4,408
299
83
Greater Boston
#13
IMO, another fairly pathetic review from this particular writer...why? because nowhere do I read about the many failings of this speaker!
So what then are in your view "the many failings" of the speaker, compared to other speakers? Have you heard it?

And don't kid yourself, compared to the 'real' there are numerous issues ( just like every other speaker extant).
Of course, but that is not the point. The question is how much closer than other speakers does it come to the real thing. A speaker can give the illusion of live, but compared to real live any speaker still will fall short.
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
4,408
299
83
Greater Boston
#14
Setting aside the merits of JVs frequent re-basing of "leading edge"...

and reading the Q&A with Alon..

Was struck by Alon's perspective on the relative merits of Phase/Time coherence in terms of delivering/designing loudspeakers...

Clearly a stark contrast to the the Vandersteen/Wilson Audio design philosophies.
I am always puzzled when I read about time-aligning subs with DSP. My subs are 6 feet away from the main speakers, and rhythm of my system, without DSP, is generally excellent. I cannot hear any timing issues.
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
4,408
299
83
Greater Boston
#15
1) Jonathan writes in this review that he prefers the power range and the dynamic impact of the M6 over the 30.7. It would have been interesting if Jonathan had grafted the Gothams or the Q-Subs onto the 30.7s and compared the combination to the M6 (even with subs the 30.7s are a fraction of the price of M6s).
Good point, Ron.

Rare circumstances aside, I think subs can usefully supplement the sound of any speaker; the same will hold for the M6 too.
 

es347

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
1,570
1
38
Midwest fly over state..
#16
..here’s an M6 that will save you $35K

FCF400BF-4A57-49EC-9A30-7CB834297069.jpeg
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
2,464
291
83
#17
I like Alon's answer to the time alignment question. So much BS marketing around the issue...
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2010
6,135
133
63
La Jolla, Calif USA
#18
So what then are in your view "the many failings" of the speaker, compared to other speakers? Have you heard it?



Of course, but that is not the point. The question is how much closer than other speakers does it come to the real thing. A speaker can give the illusion of live, but compared to real live any speaker still will fall short.
Al, I think you answered your first question with your second point.
I have not heard the new M6--that's not the point ( which i think you are still missing)-- the point is that if you read JV's review, it would easily lead one to believe that this speaker is perfect...and can sound just like the 'real'. Now we all know that this is not the case..except I never see any of these guys compare what they are listening to to the 'real'. Instead, we are treated to a gush of hyperbole and expected to believe that this new speaker is the one to attain. If you have read JV for any length of time ( and unfortunately, I have), you would see that he has a modus operandi. That being to praise to the sky any new product that he sees as a 'flagship' from just about any company that submits to him. Then, after no time at all, he reviews the next contender and magically brings to light the failings in the last rave. Here's what concerns me about this style of writing...since there are numerous high end buyers who never listen for themselves to gear under consideration, and simply go by the latest rave review, that he is in essence truly leading people down the wrong path. ( whether they deserve to be lead down this path is another question entirely and not part of my discussion:D ).
What i am tired of in the reviews that I read is the never ending hyperbole that we now see...and no ( or very little) actual discrimination regarding various pieces of gear.
Now, I ask you a question...do you believe that all gear leaps forward in SQ with each new revision???
 

GMKF

VIP/Donor
Aug 15, 2017
396
48
28
Munich
#19
Now, I ask you a question...do you believe that all gear leaps forward in SQ with each new revision???
Leap? No. Only small improvments, or the first version whould have major flaws. But a couple small improvments can change the big picture significantly.

Ground breaking revisions are very very hard to come by.
 
May 30, 2010
15,090
482
83
Portugal
#20
(...) I have not heard the new M6--that's not the point ( which i think you are still missing)-- the point is that if you read JV's review, it would easily lead one to believe that this speaker is perfect...and can sound just like the 'real'.(...)
DaveyF,

As I said before I say I read reviews looking for information (that sometimes can be of later use) and entertainment.

JV has published more than 200 online-reviews in TAS, all accessible at a single click. Do you really believe that any of his readers believes that this speaker is perfect and can sound like the real?

IMHO we should criticize a review by what we dislike (perhaps his hyperbolic style) and what we disagree, not for the dangers it presents to naive readers. People often criticize JV for the absence of comparison - we just have to read the last few reviews of speakers in followup and the comparisons are there, although most times hidden behind the the never ending hyperbole. JV has good ears and an excellent knowledge of high-end, if we manage to accept and to surpass his style, we can learn a lot from him.

Please note the high-end (and WBF) is just an hobby for me - nothing else. Since long I manage to read about the high-end ignoring the bickering of reviewers to their hated products and people, even when I love them!:)
 

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