Linn LP 12... anyone else still like this design?

[DaveyF]

I am still a BIG fan of the LP12. I know it is pretty long in the tooth, BUT I still believe
that it can compete with most tables.
Recently, i heard a TW Acoustic Raven One, a GREAT table, BUT not IMHO immensely better than my
LP12. An epiphany it wasn'tThe TW was clearly a better table as it should be for the price, but it didn't make me want to dispose of my trusty LP12.
Anyone else still like the old war horse

 

[cjfrbw]

I have never heard one, but with turntables and analog, REFINEMENT goes a long way. The LP12 is probably the most tweaked and refined turntable in history. Also, it reputedly has an ultra-analog smoothness and bounce that a lot of vinyl types like.
Of course, some would consider that bounce a form of inaccuracy, but maybe they are just jealous.

 

[WullieD20]

I am still a BIG fan of the LP12. I know it is pretty long in the tooth, BUT I still believe
that it can compete with most tables.
Recently, i heard a TW Acoustic Raven One, a GREAT table, BUT not IMHO immensely better than my
LP12. An epiphany it wasn'tThe TW was clearly a better table as it should be for the price, but it didn't make me want to dispose of my trusty LP12.
Anyone else still like the old war horse

Hi from the "Land of Linn" (very wintery Scotland!). Ivor T certainly had a way with sales that no one had attempted the same way previously, which undoubtedly went a long way to achieving the number of decks sold throughout the world, as well as the loyalty of Linn-ites for years to come.

I bought mine in the mid 80s and retain it to this day. However, as an engineer and enthusiatic 'dabbler' in most things hi-fi, I overcame the secret mystique that seemed to accompany every deck - as far as dealers were concerned. True, there's a degree of patience and infinite accuracy required to get the LP12 singing properly, but magic it certainly ain't. Mine is now fitted with a composite laminated subchassis and a dc motor, which both contribute to a more believable sound stage and performance than previously experienced. I fitted a Zeta tone arm way back when Linn's "best" was considered to be outperformed by the Zeta and haven't regretted a minute of it for over twenty years. If anything at all contributes to the LP12 sounding different (not different to other TTs, I hasten to add), it must be the choice of cartridge and over the years I've tried a few.

The LP12 has been maintained and fettled religiously and the Zeta has been serviced and re-wired by Johnnie at Audio Origami (manufacturer of his own very fine - world renowned - PU7 tone arms, here in Scotland, just like the Linn) and the current cartridge in residence is a Transfiguration Orpheus.

There are many criticisms of the LP 12 and like most things musical and hi-fi, the final conclusion as to the performance of the TT is subjective and in many ways also reliant on the components that make up the remainder of the system. However, an extremely friendly local dealer that I rely on used to wax lyrical about 'solid' decks and maintain that my "old fish box LP12 bouncer" wasn't as accurate as those without the bounce!! It didn't take him long to be converted when the Dunlop brothers of ART loudspeakers resumed production of their father's famous Systemdek, albeit a totally different design from the original, a "bouncer" nonetheless. This TT bounces in a different manner to the LP12 and is manufactured with state-of-the-art components made from contemporary materials and it has to be said that it's the best TT I have ever heard, but then it ought to be, with the top of the range coming in at over twenty thousand of my British pounds!!

My Linn LP12 (if you can still call it an LP12) still 'floats my boat', 'butters my muffin' and makes serious music in my house........Long live the LP12.

Thanks for your interest, Regards,

W.

 

[DaveyF]

Wullie D20... I recently heard a new LP12 with the Radikal power supply and with the Keel/Urika mods. IMHO, this table is still competitive with the best that I have heard, including among others, the TW Raven One and the Avid Acutus Ref SP. Pity that the price has edged up so much though
The Radikal did seem to be a big step-up over the Lingo, although at a price that i thought was excessive...like most prices these days in audio

 

[JackD201]

Davey, try to audition an LP12 with the full Funk Firm mod package. I can't say whether you'll like it or not, but I surely did.

 

[mep]

Seems like forever since my muffin was buttered....sigh.

You can still get your muffin buttered. Look in the yellow pages under Escort Services.

 

[flez007]

DaveyF - I agree that the LP12 is still a very competitive, musical and good looking table, I had two Linns back in time and still miss some things they did compared to my Avid Volvere. I am happy setteled with tha Avid now, but could live with an LP12 forever.

I am really enjoying the Scheu Tacco unipivot arm, and have learned that the LP12 fitted with the Naim Aro just sings, have you considered that arm?

 

[DaveyF]

Hi Fernando, I would consider the Naim Aro arm..it is one of the "classic' match-ups for the LP12. I haven't had the pleasure of hearing the 'combo' unfortunately and would like to do so before more consideration.
With the Linn, I am unsure if I will upgrade the power supply...i.e. go to Lingo 2 or Radikal first, or upgrade my arm first
One of the things that I am weighing, is whether to go with a Graham arm on the Linn, or to try a Naim or the Ekos SE....I haven't heard any of these combo's
I have always found that auditioning arm/table combo's is the hardest thing to do, especially now since the number of Linn dealers and LP12 dealers in particular, seems to have majorly diminished here in the US.

 

[flez007]

DeveyF - I think both uogrades will work for you, I remember upgrading my stock PS to a larger one for my Gyrodeck some years back and the impact was not a small one, as well as jumping from my good&old modified RB300 for the Scheu arm.

I am sure that you are not in a hurry, your setup looks fine for now, maybe just wait for some opportunity in the future.

 

[DaveyF]

Thanks Fernando, I am in no hurry to do this upgrade. Like you say, I think that there will be some
vey good opportunities for the power supply and probably arm in the near future.

 

[JackD201]

Naim Aro definitely, add the Black Widow to your list if you're using a high compliance cart. Might as well have a set of different armbands

 

[naturephoto1]

Naim Aro definitely, add the Black Widow to your list if you're using a high compliance cart. Might as well have a set of different armbands

I had an Infinity Black Widow that was turned into a Black Widow GF (GF stood for Graphite Fiber, it was an improvement over the original; the arm wand was replaced and some other changes were made to the arm). I think that it is here someplace in the house since we moved. Anyway it was quite a good tonearm.

Rich

 

[JackD201]

I'm glad you made it clear GF stood for graphite fiber. Somehow Black Widow Girl Friend sounds like the title to a slasher flick

 

[WullieD20]

Wullie D20... I recently heard a new LP12 with the Radikal power supply and with the Keel/Urika mods. IMHO, this table is still competitive with the best that I have heard, including among others, the TW Raven One and the Avid Acutus Ref SP. Pity that the price has edged up so much though
The Radikal did seem to be a big step-up over the Lingo, although at a price that i thought was excessive...like most prices these days in audio

The Linn modifications invariably ensure their product keeps up with the opposition (audibly), but I find it quite difficult to find justification with their pricing policy, which ensures that present LP12 owners have to think twice about implementing any Linn upgrades..... unless of course you happen to be rich in the first place.... It's the cost issue that has driven me to research and try alternatives, such as the "Sole" sub-chassis from John at Analogue Innovation and the dc motor from Origin Live. IMHO these changes (I am reluctant to refer to them as improvements, as any changes are purely subjective) bring vast upgrades that are excellent value for money.

Davey, try to audition an LP12 with the full Funk Firm mod package. I can't say whether you'll like it or not, but I surely did.

The "Funk" alternative has an enthusiastic following and I have heard various versions of Arthur's kit, all being very impressive. I also have a colleague who owns a fully Funked LP12 and swears by its performance against any standard LP12 at any 'mod' level!!! You pays yer money......

I am really enjoying the Scheu Tacco unipivot arm, and have learned that the LP12 fitted with the Naim Aro just sings, have you considered that arm?

The Naim Aro also has a very strong following and as stated here the synergy with the LP12 appears to be top notch. However, many people dismiss the Aro purely on the grounds of it being a unipivot...(??). When anyone is considering a change of tone arm try and search out and listen to a PU7 from Audio Origami . These are just stunning arms that reveal everything you wish from your music collection when played on an LP12 (or any other turntable for that matter).

 

[mmakshak]

Linn lp12

i believe the Radikal(now includes Dynamik power supply) should come before the Ekos SE. I believe a test was done that shows this. Unfortunately for early Radikal users, the Dynamic makes a huge difference, so they have to get it($400). There are good and bad points about the lp12. The good is that there are proven ways to upgrade it. The bad is the newest upgrades are very expensive. Is it the best turntable out there? I don't know, but the company should still be in business years from now(unlike many of its competitors).

You can hear the effects of the Radikal and Dynamik if you listen to needle drops(PinkFishMedia is one place you can listen. I heard the effect of the Dynamik there.).

 

[mmakshak]

Call me crazy, but I listened to a Technics sp10 and a Brinkman doing needle drops on Pink Fish Media, and 2 Linn lp12s were much more engaging to listen to. Both lp12s were more updated models. One had Radikal and maybe a Naim Aro tonearm, the other did not have the Radikal.

 

[mep]

Call me crazy, but I listened to a Technics sp10 and a Brinkman doing needle drops on Pink Fish Media, and 2 Linn lp12s were much more engaging to listen to. Both lp12s were more updated models. One had Radikal and maybe a Naim Aro tonearm, the other did not have the Radikal.

Can you really make a judgement on the sound quality of an LP playback system by listening to "needle drops" recorded by Joe Shmo and going through two conversions (A/D-D/A) before you hear it over your lovely computer speakers?

 

[DaveyF]

I agree with you Mark, it is IMO impossible to determine sound quality of anything that is downloaded and then heard over one's computer speakers. Just like it is impossible to ascertain how a piece of gear sounds or would sound in one's own system from a specific review in a magazine.
I really believe that the ONLY way to be sure of how any piece of gear sounds in one's system is to listen to it in your own system and room.

BTW, does anyone know the current US price of the Radikal/Dynamik and the price of the current Lingo (version 3) ?

 

[mep]

There is a review of the Radikal in the new Stereophile. I believe it costs $4250. Crazy man, crazy. To think that Linn is still finding ways to bilk customers out of hard-earned cash so many years after the LP-12 came to market is amazing. Isn't the LP-12 just a glorified AR turntable except it's harder to keep running correctly (or as the Linnes would say, keep it in tune)? How many times has Linn offered upgrades for the LP-12? What would be the total investment if you bought an original LP-12 and then bought every upgrade that was offered?

I know the Linn LP-12 has PRAT, it's PHAT, it's a cool cat, and it's all that, but give me a break. $4250 for a new motor, power supply, belt, onboard tachometer (gotta have that), new off/on switch and black felt strip? You could spend $4250 and buy a brand new great sounding table instead of some turntable bits and pieces. Hats off to Linn's marketing skills is all I have to say. Is anyone still using the flimsy tables to set their LP-12s on that Linn used to recommend?

 

[DaveyF]

Mark, What's crazy is the fact that on the used market, a Linn Lingo has retained so much of its value over the years. They rarely come up for sale and when they do, they are snapped up immediately! ( Even the old shoe box versions )
Which, I think goes to show that Linn seems to have a much wider market than we may be aware of.
While the Radikal hasn't been available for that long, I have yet to see anyone post a used one for sale