Leveling up your speakers so they are bang on - do you do it?

[DEV]

Thought I would post this;

I have always taken the time to level up any speakers I have owned ensuring they are bang on.

I was over to a chaps place for a listen the other evening and noticed visually his were off, also when listening noticed images were not stable nor focussed - actually owns MBL speakers.

I sent a email off to some others I know and to my surprise found many haven't, some who have haven't used that most accurate devise in doing such.

Curious what others thoughts are in relation to this and what you actually use, I realize different designs there will be different devises used.

I use a devise that was mainly designed for turntables, it's very accurate with no guessing of which foot to adjust. I also use the same device on transports.

Here's a pic of mine and showing it's bang on.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

I bubble balance each speaker change and then check it every couple months for "settling". I should go digital like you :0

My MBLs are in the waiting room.

 

[treitz3]

Hello DEV and good evening to you. I always have and if the imaging is thrown off a bit after some time has passed, I double check (okay, I'll admit it. Sometimes I double check just because I am a little "over the top" with certain things). To me, this is just as important as toe in. IME, I have found with my current speakers that even the slightest deviation can have noticeable affects on the spatial locational cues and imaging. If it ever goes out of whack for whatever reason, a quick 5 minutes and I'm back.

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get that handy little electronic device? I would like to get one if they don't cost as much as a new suspension on my Chevy truck. That's really cool.

Tom

 

[DEV]

Hello DEV and good evening to you. I always have and if the imaging is thrown off a bit after some time has passed, I double check (okay, I'll admit it. Sometimes I double check just because I am a little "over the top" with certain things). To me, this is just as important as toe in. IME, I have found with my current speakers that even the slightest deviation can have noticeable affects on the spatial locational cues and imaging. If it ever goes out of whack for whatever reason, a quick 5 minutes and I'm back.

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get that handy little electronic device? I would like to get one if they don't cost as much as a new suspension on my Chevy truck. That's really cool.

Tom

It's called "Cartridge Man Digital Leveling Gauge" been around for a long time - a must tool for me

http://www.needledoctor.com/Cartridge-Man-Digital-Leveling-Gauge?sc=7&category=25844

 

[c1ferrari]

I level our speakers, but require a small step ladder to accomplish the task.

 

[GaryProtein]

Thought I would post this;

I have always taken the time to level up any speakers I have owned ensuring they are bang on.

. . . .

Here's a pic of mine and showing it's bang on.

View attachment 17789

That level makes sense for turntables, but if you're using it for your speakers to get better leveling accuracy than a "built to code" floor in a house, you better also buy a vice for your head mounted on your listening chair.

What are you doing about your walls? The MBL is omnidirectional, so a great deal of what you hear is bounced off the walls. Are they all perfectly plumb??? Does it matter or does it make you feel better to know it's perfectly level?

 

[DEV]

That level makes sense for turntables, but if you're using it for your speakers to get better leveling accuracy than a "built to code" floor in a house, you better also buy a vice for your head mounted on your listening chair.

What are you doing about your walls? The MBL is omnidirectional, so a great deal of what you hear is bounced off the walls. Are they all perfectly plumb??? Does it matter or does it make you feel better to know it's perfectly level?

Interesting - I'm so use to ensuring past speakers were always level as I could always hear the difference. I still recall when I originally received my MBL's and just played around with them while they were breaking in, never paid any attention to them being level. I never really thought about leveling this type of speaker up, thinking it really wouldn't and shouldn't make any difference, well I was wrong - it makes a difference. Just refer to my comments of my recent visit as mentioned in my opening post.

Have you ever leveled up your own speakers? and what were your findings? if not you should try it. I can hear differences with any movement including toe in - leveling is crucial and just apart of my set-up.

My floors and walls are also bang on, I was involved with the building of my house. My floors are three layers of 3/4" ply staggered screwed and glued onto resilient floor joists, inner walls are all 2x6 where industry standard is 2x4, I also have 5/8" drywall with roxul sound insulation within all of the cavities of inner walls through out the home. The norm is 1/2" with no insolation so it's a hollow cavity. It was my first time with resilient joist and have a span of 16" center, doing it again I would go 12".

I actually use to own Infinity IRS series V speakers myself, I recall using level's to ensure they were plumb.

 

[BobM]

I have panels, so no "leveling" per se but I do use a digital laser measurer to get their set-up as perfect as possible. Here's what I use:

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-DLR130K-Digital-Distance-Measurer/dp/B001U89QBU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414501137&sr=8-1&keywords=bosch+digital+laser+measure

 

[zztop7]

My floors are three layers of 3/4" ply staggered screwed and glued onto resilient floor joists,

Excellent, that is the way to build the top.
You also wrote.
" It was my first time with resilient joist and have a span of 16" center, doing it again I would go 12".

Resilient joists are also known as silent joists. Instead of 12" OC [on center], look into using 3" or wider glulam or microlam or similiar beams 16" OC for your joists.

Best to you,
zz.

 

[garylkoh]

That level makes sense for turntables, but if you're using it for your speakers to get better leveling accuracy than a "built to code" floor in a house, you better also buy a vice for your head mounted on your listening chair.

What are you doing about your walls? The MBL is omnidirectional, so a great deal of what you hear is bounced off the walls. Are they all perfectly plumb??? Does it matter or does it make you feel better to know it's perfectly level?

Sorry, Gary. This is one of the few times I disagree with you.

Even with line-source loudspeakers, tilt, yaw and even camber does affect the soundstage and imaging. Very tiny adjustments can make for big changes. With very complex arrangements such as "Peace in the Heart" - Track 2, The Producer's Choice, First Impression Music you can make the shaker that goes from left to right start low and end high, come forward and then backward just by making sure that the speakers are correctly aligned. Yes, I agree that this is in relation to the walls, floors and ceilings, and material/diffusion/absorption of the room. But the speaker position makes a big difference, and relatively easier to do than changing the room to suit may be an off-kilter speaker.

Even if the floor is level "to code" - it can be enough off to affect the image.

 

[thedudeabides]

The MBL is omnidirectional, so a great deal of what you hear is bounced off the walls. Are they all perfectly plumb??? Does it matter or does it make you feel better to know it's perfectly level?[/B]

A bit aggressive and condescending, don't you think.

PS: If nothing else, it provides a "reference" when you move and / or readjust your speakers.

 

[zztop7]

Even if the floor is level "to code" - it can be enough off to affect the image.

"to code" I have seen $10 million houses where the builder proudly announced that "it was built to code". Code EQUALS > minimal acceptable standards <.
Use a very high quality digital level such as a Mitutoyo.
Best to you,
zz.

 

[DEV]

I have panels, so no "leveling" per se but I do use a digital laser measurer to get their set-up as perfect as possible. Here's what I use:

Great tool, I have one also that I use. When using panels and I still have a pair packed away I would also use a plumb bob in conjunction. I have found it's a must in assisting.

 

[DEV]

Sorry, Gary. This is one of the few times I disagree with you.

Even with line-source loudspeakers, tilt, yaw and even camber does affect the soundstage and imaging. Very tiny adjustments can make for big changes. With very complex arrangements such as "Peace in the Heart" - Track 2, The Producer's Choice, First Impression Music you can make the shaker that goes from left to right start low and end high, come forward and then backward just by making sure that the speakers are correctly aligned. Yes, I agree that this is in relation to the walls, floors and ceilings, and material/diffusion/absorption of the room. But the speaker position makes a big difference, and relatively easier to do than changing the room to suit may be an off-kilter speaker.

Even if the floor is level "to code" - it can be enough off to affect the image.

Hi Gary,

I agree, it really surprised me when I shot of an email to several with all different types of speakers with the topic and found that they were not precisely doing this, some not at all - the guy that I visited thanked me

 

[thedudeabides]

I have panels, so no "leveling" per se but I do use a digital laser measurer to get their set-up as perfect as possible. Here's what I use:

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-DLR130K-Digital-Distance-Measurer/dp/B001U89QBU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414501137&sr=8-1&keywords=bosch+digital+laser+measure

Having owned Martin Logans for some 25 years, ensuring that panel "azimuth" (rake angle) is exactly the same for both speakers is critical for optimizing performance. The same, IMHO, likely applies to dynamic speakers.

 

[GaryProtein]

Sorry, Gary. This is one of the few times I disagree with you.

Even with line-source loudspeakers, tilt, yaw and even camber does affect the soundstage and imaging. Very tiny adjustments can make for big changes. With very complex arrangements such as "Peace in the Heart" - Track 2, The Producer's Choice, First Impression Music you can make the shaker that goes from left to right start low and end high, come forward and then backward just by making sure that the speakers are correctly aligned. Yes, I agree that this is in relation to the walls, floors and ceilings, and material/diffusion/absorption of the room. But the speaker position makes a big difference, and relatively easier to do than changing the room to suit may be an off-kilter speaker.

Even if the floor is level "to code" - it can be enough off to affect the image.

That's just great. Now I have another project to complete!

What do you recommend I use to accomplish absolute leveling? What do I place under the speakers?

 

[thedudeabides]

Buy a good quality digital level with LCD readout. Many are available. Shim as required and once you are satisfied with the sonics, look at products that will provide a "robust" interface between the bottom of your four towers and the floor.

I trust / hope you will be pleasantly surprised for a very modest amount of time and investment.

 

[garylkoh]

The dude is right - shim as needed. A good digital level, and may be even a laser level.

 

[treitz3]

Hello, Gary Protein. If you do end up doing this, I would be interested to hear about your observations afterwards. I already "think" I know what they will be but.....ya' never know in this hobby.

Tom

 

[thedudeabides]

With a system as transparent / resolving as Gary's, I have little doubt as to the outcome.