Lampizator or PS Audio Directstream DAC Mk2?

[Undecided_Dave]

Hi All,
Anyone else out there compared/Demoed the Lampizator Atlantic 3 TRP and the PS Audio DSD Mk2? I have recently listened to both and find either of them very attractive options. However, I've never had to live with tubes and as a toob noob I wonder if this is likely to enhance or degrade my experience as an end user...I usually just set and forget and enjoy.

 

[msimanyi]

It comes down to personal preference. I was waiting for the Mk2 to be released, then saw the teething pains - that I believe are now resolved - and in that time noticed a post comparing DACs by another PSAudio forum member. I'd never heard of Lampizator, but his analysis drew me to them and to this forum. I decided to roll the dice and auditioned an Atlantic 3.

I'm thrilled with it. But I do appreciate the ability to "fine tune" with tubes. If you simply don't want that complication / flexibility, get the Mk2. If you appreciate the flexibility, audition the Atlantic 3.

Just be aware that there are significant improvements to be had from non-factory tubes. If you want "easy", get the Sophia Electric EL34 tubes and 274B rectifier, and you will be quite happy. (The factory rectifier that came with mine - I believe a Russian variety - is actually quite good.) If you want to seek out additional improvements, they're available... for a price. They may not be "good value", even though they're further improvement.

I have no regrets buying the Atlantic 3. It's a highly rewarding DAC.

 

[Undecided_Dave]

Thanks msimanyi. I was wondering about the stock valves. I don't want to be in a position whereby in order to achieve the best sound I would need to outlay more expense. That is an ongoing concern (That I wouldn't be entirely happy with the stock tubes). Its like if you really enjoy driving a big V12 you accept you'll need to suck up the fuel costs. If you like tubes you resign yourself to searching out the best ones out there and it should be 'fun' finding out. I also think this could be fun journey but at the same time what if I find this frustrating? Ultimately I do this to listen to the music. I am hesitant about inadvertently making this about the equipment as well. But... if the Atlantic wipes the floor with the PS DSD then surely it makes more sense to buy the best you can? I dont know - decisions, decisions..!

FWIW I listened to both and felt they both sounded great with perhaps the PS Dac having a touch more slam n the bass but things like bass weight midrange treble etc were pretty similar between the two.

 

[msimanyi]

The stock valves are not bad. To use your analogy, think of the stock version as a turbo v6. Add a new exhaust and a tune, and you can markedly improve the performance.

Were you disappointed with the factory version of the car? No - you paid good money for it, for a reason. Are you happier after the modifications? Most likely.

Can you go crazy with modifications? Sure... but that's up to you.

At the price point, I don't think you can make a bad decision between the Lampizator and PS Audio products. Nothing is perfect, neither seems unusually flawed.

When you listened, were they in your personal system?

 

[adrianywu]

I recently received a Directstream mk 2 from PS. I had been using a level 4 Lampizator DSD DAC before that. Just a declaration, I write for PS Audio's Copper magazine and bought the DAC at staff pricing. I am in a special situation, since all my files are in DSD format, mostly my own transfers from master tapes of my own recordings as well as production/safety masters from major labels from the late 1950s to the late 1970s. I also have a fair number of files from SACD rips and some downloads. Let me put it this way, since receiving the Directstream, I have not played any tape for listening pleasure, since I find the DAC reproducing the transfers at such a faithful level that I no longer need to play the tapes. It adds nothing and subtracts very little. That cannot be said about the level 4 Lampizator, although judging by itself, it has a very enjoyable sound. My recording partner has a top level Lampizator in his system (Golden Gate), which is of course a totally different system in a dedicated studio. We spent quite a bit of time at my place listening to the tape and DAC set ups, and he agreed that he could not detect any significant degradation with the DAC compared to the source tape. It certainly does not add any digital artifact. But this is only for pure DSD. We have not examined its performance on PCM, which is upsampled to 20xDSD before being decoded.
Just one caveat. I cannot use the digital volume control since my system is very broadband, and at high attenuation, there is too much ultrasonic noise. Using the DAC with the volume fixed at 100% has no issue at all.

 

[Undecided_Dave]

The stock valves are not bad. To use your analogy, think of the stock version as a turbo v6. Add a new exhaust and a tune, and you can markedly improve the performance.

Were you disappointed with the factory version of the car? No - you paid good money for it, for a reason. Are you happier after the modifications? Most likely.

Can you go crazy with modifications? Sure... but that's up to you.

At the price point, I don't think you can make a bad decision between the Lampizator and PS Audio products. Nothing is perfect, neither seems unusually flawed.

When you listened, were they in your personal system?

Hi There, No it wasn't in my system. But I did take my headphone amp (I'm a headphone only listener) and cabling to the vendor site and listened to it there through my own equipment. (There was an issue getting anyone to agree sending £8k value equipment to my property for evaluation so I have to travel instead. P.I.T.A but I'm not buying items of this value off of spec sheets.)

 

[Undecided_Dave]

I recently received a Directstream mk 2 from PS. I had been using a level 4 Lampizator DSD DAC before that. Just a declaration, I write for PS Audio's Copper magazine and bought the DAC at staff pricing. I am in a special situation, since all my files are in DSD format, mostly my own transfers from master tapes of my own recordings as well as production/safety masters from major labels from the late 1950s to the late 1970s. I also have a fair number of files from SACD rips and some downloads. Let me put it this way, since receiving the Directstream, I have not played any tape for listening pleasure, since I find the DAC reproducing the transfers at such a faithful level that I no longer need to play the tapes. It adds nothing and subtracts very little. That cannot be said about the level 4 Lampizator, although judging by itself, it has a very enjoyable sound. My recording partner has a top level Lampizator in his system (Golden Gate), which is of course a totally different system in a dedicated studio. We spent quite a bit of time at my place listening to the tape and DAC set ups, and he agreed that he could not detect any significant degradation with the DAC compared to the source tape. It certainly does not add any digital artifact. But this is only for pure DSD. We have not examined its performance on PCM, which is upsampled to 20xDSD before being decoded.
Just one caveat. I cannot use the digital volume control since my system is very broadband, and at high attenuation, there is too much ultrasonic noise. Using the DAC with the volume fixed at 100% has no issue at all.

Thanks for the comment. I'll take it on board.

 

[msimanyi]

Hi There, No it wasn't in my system. But I did take my headphone amp (I'm a headphone only listener) and cabling to the vendor site and listened to it there through my own equipment. (There was an issue getting anyone to agree sending £8k value equipment to my property for evaluation so I have to travel instead. P.I.T.A but I'm not buying items of this value off of spec sheets.)

Do you know if the DACs were fully broken in when you listened to them, and how long the Lampizator had been powered on before your session? If it was on for a full hour, that's probably best. If it was on for at least 30 minutes, I'd say you're solid on that test. But if it was a new demo unit, break in can make a significant difference.

I would expect that break in matter to be similar for both DACs.

 

[Undecided_Dave]

Do you know if the DACs were fully broken in when you listened to them, and how long the Lampizator had been powered on before your session? If it was on for a full hour, that's probably best. If it was on for at least 30 minutes, I'd say you're solid on that test. But if it was a new demo unit, break in can make a significant difference.

I would expect that break in matter to be similar for both DACs.

As far as I was told, both had been broken in for a while. In the case of the lampizator it was around 1 yr old and had been on for 1-2 hours prior to my visit. For the PS DAC it was around 6 months old and had been left on permanently whilst breaking in. The Lampi was not using the stock tubes though - they were using after market tubes. KT88 if I recall correctly with a PSVane 274B. We did tube roll so I could get a feel for the different tube types. I could hear a difference but preferred the KT88 over the EL34 we tried. Rectifiers also were rolled but I was not significantly swayed by these. Pretty much anything sounded good. Tried some NOS tubes including the potato masher style and this didnt seem to me to offer much over the others. But granted - I did only listen to these for a few minutes each rather than extended listening. My total listening session with both was around 2.25 hours.

 

[adrianywu]

Something to consider too is the upgradability of the PS. The manufacturer releases new algorithms that users can upload to the machine. It also has a second FPGA that can be programmed at a later date for additional functions.

 

[Carlsbad]

I recently listened to a PS Audio Directstream MK2 in my own system and it sounded good. Very, very similar to my Chord DAVE. I was impressed by it.

It got me thinking that my DAVE is getting long of tooth and perhaps it is time to upgrade. For years I'd been looking at Lampizator, but only hearing at shows.

Tubes aren't a big deal to me. I find rolling tubes to be fun and the minor cost is less than other habits, Starbucks for example. And the tubes on the Golden Atlantic are not expensive. I owned an amp using a quad of those tubes and over the space of a little over a year I tried at least a dozen sets of tubes.

Are you interested in balanced or single ended? Single ended cuts your tube needs in half.

So in the end, I ordered a GG3.

Jerry

 

[Undecided_Dave]

Something to consider too is the upgradability of the PS. The manufacturer releases new algorithms that users can upload to the machine. It also has a second FPGA that can be programmed at a later date for additional functions.

Definitely a plus point for sure. I haven't forgotten that point. I'm not sure about the 'brand new DAC' hype for every release but the advantages are not lost on me.

 

[Undecided_Dave]

I recently listened to a PS Audio Directstream MK2 in my own system and it sounded good. Very, very similar to my Chord DAVE. I was impressed by it.

It got me thinking that my DAVE is getting long of tooth and perhaps it is time to upgrade. For years I'd been looking at Lampizator, but only hearing at shows.

Tubes aren't a big deal to me. I find rolling tubes to be fun and the minor cost is less than other habits, Starbucks for example. And the tubes on the Golden Atlantic are not expensive. I owned an amp using a quad of those tubes and over the space of a little over a year I tried at least a dozen sets of tubes.

Are you interested in balanced or single ended? Single ended cuts your tube needs in half.

So in the end, I ordered a GG3.

Jerry

Thanks Carlsbad. I am a glutton for punishment it seems and I always go balanced connection. Even though the cost is higher. I invested a lot in balanced and not going to change my mind anytime soon. In terms of the tubes, I guess maybe I'm just being too romantic about the 'idea' of tubes rather than the reality of living with them. Perhaps subconsciously I am a better audiophile for having them in my system? (Can of worms opened..?)

 

[Rexp]

I recently received a Directstream mk 2 from PS. I had been using a level 4 Lampizator DSD DAC before that. Just a declaration, I write for PS Audio's Copper magazine and bought the DAC at staff pricing. I am in a special situation, since all my files are in DSD format, mostly my own transfers from master tapes of my own recordings as well as production/safety masters from major labels from the late 1950s to the late 1970s. I also have a fair number of files from SACD rips and some downloads. Let me put it this way, since receiving the Directstream, I have not played any tape for listening pleasure, since I find the DAC reproducing the transfers at such a faithful level that I no longer need to play the tapes. It adds nothing and subtracts very little. That cannot be said about the level 4 Lampizator, although judging by itself, it has a very enjoyable sound. My recording partner has a top level Lampizator in his system (Golden Gate), which is of course a totally different system in a dedicated studio. We spent quite a bit of time at my place listening to the tape and DAC set ups, and he agreed that he could not detect any significant degradation with the DAC compared to the source tape. It certainly does not add any digital artifact. But this is only for pure DSD. We have not examined its performance on PCM, which is upsampled to 20xDSD before being decoded.
Just one caveat. I cannot use the digital volume control since my system is very broadband, and at high attenuation, there is too much ultrasonic noise. Using the DAC with the volume fixed at 100% has no issue at all.

How have you got it connected and to what, is I2S better than USB?

 

[keithc]

Well, you asked, but just go for the Lampi and be done with it. You won't look back.

The TRP3 can literally open you up to a thousand possibilities of different tubes. And once fined tuned with exotic tubes, it's an unleashed beast.
If the stock TRP is a BMW M3, the TRP w/ NOS tubes is a 911 Turbo. It's a /spankingly/ large delta and provides the possibility of ensuring future compatibility regardless of changing other gear, plus you can get it with an analog input (e.g. phono) and use it as a tubed pre-amplifier.

Plus they're gorgeous. Just look at this thing, and if you turn off the lights it even glows...

 

[Undecided_Dave]

Well, you asked, but just go for the Lampi and be done with it. You won't look back.

The TRP3 can literally open you up to a thousand possibilities of different tubes. And once fined tuned with exotic tubes, it's an unleashed beast.
If the stock TRP is a BMW M3, the TRP w/ NOS tubes is a 911 Turbo. It's a /spankingly/ large delta and provides the possibility of ensuring future compatibility regardless of changing other gear, plus you can get it with an analog input (e.g. phono) and use it as a tubed pre-amplifier.

Plus they're gorgeous. Just look at this thing, and if you turn off the lights it even glows...

View attachment 120368

I detect a little bias there..or am I wrong?

But seriously the looks are absolutely fab. I am going to be looking at this thing practically everyday for 5-7 years if I get it. Maybe even longer, as I suspect the opportunity may not be there in the future to upgrade again. It also leads me to ask another question of a technical nature; I have all kinds of file types in my server (Aiff,FLAC,ALAC, DSD64,128,256 etc) Has anyone found anything to trip it up or has it been rocksolid seamless?

 

[Golum]

I detect a little bias there..or am I wrong?

You're wrong...I very much second his opinion

 

[Undecided_Dave]

You're wrong...I very much second his opinion

Happy be wrong, when it's for the right reasons! SO we seem to have a growing endorsement for the Lampi. What is your experience with tube lifespan?

 

[Golum]

Happy be wrong, when it's for the right reasons! SO we seem to have a growing endorsement for the Lampi. What is your experience with tube lifespan?

Tube lifespan is really something about what you don’t need to worry. I’m with Lampi for like 5/6 years now with all possible models without one single tube going bad (NOS, used or new which i tried) and i tried more than a sane user would try.

 

[keithc]

I detect a little bias there..or am I wrong?

But seriously the looks are absolutely fab. I am going to be looking at this thing practically everyday for 5-7 years if I get it. Maybe even longer, as I suspect the opportunity may not be there in the future to upgrade again. It also leads me to ask another question of a technical nature; I have all kinds of file types in my server (Aiff,FLAC,ALAC, DSD64,128,256 etc) Has anyone found anything to trip it up or has it been rocksolid seamless?

ENGINE ELEVEN | lampizator

www.lampizatorpoland.com

This is the spec on their latest TRP decoding engine. I use FLAC/ALAC/64 via SPDIF and it’s fine; obviously native higher res would need USB.

There is a >110 page TRP tube rolling thread on this forum. It’s a treasure trove of what everyone has gone through, worth reading.

FYI re looks, this is the Golden Atlantic TRP3, which is an upgrade from the regular TRP 3.