LampizatOr Baltic 3

Devg

Member
Feb 17, 2020
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what exactly are these digital engines ? Do they contain off the shelf delta-sigma chip (ESS or AKM ?) or something in-house ? Just curious.
 

Golum

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Jun 7, 2018
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Not disclosed I would say...never heard what they are using
 

Vangelis

Well-Known Member
Oct 11, 2011
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A new Digital Engine / processer is a must be a pretty significant improvement especially in light of the Baltic 3 being a relatively recent product. I don’t see the new processor / digital engine on either of the Lampizator web sites. Pondering what the cost of shipping to Poland could be $$$$$
 

VoicesInMyHead

Well-Known Member
Apr 7, 2018
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A new Digital Engine / processer is a must be a pretty significant improvement especially in light of the Baltic 3 being a relatively recent product. I don’t see the new processor / digital engine on either of the Lampizator web sites. Pondering what the cost of shipping to Poland could be $$$$$

I think LampizatOr has always done small continuous development and improvements to the lineup. Every DAC is built to order and unique unlike many other brands that produce at product and then fill their shelfs with it ready to ship (and/or collect dust), this allows things to change along the way. For example when they moved from the Amanero to the JLSounds USB interface, or when the engines were R2R or not. We can always argue what approach is best, but I kind of like this, it also makes the DAC stay competitive for longer and if you buy a 2 year old DAC you will still get the latest improvements.

Of course it's a bit tempting and frustrating as a current owner to see new improvements being added while you are missing out, but then maybe we have to ask ourselves if we really need every update, like with mobile phones for example I tend to upgrade every second year instead of every year, skipping one version. My B3 sounds even more fantastic today than it did one and a half a year ago as I've explored a lot of different tube options, upgraded fuse and power cable etc, I don't like it any less just because there's a new engine out there.

Something that is totally possible as well is that maybe they had to change some things due to lack of components? There's after all a war going on which tends to impact things here and there.

With that said, I'm of course also very curious about the new engine and I have a friend who has a new B3 on order... :)
 

Sablon Audio

Industry Expert, VIP Donor
May 22, 2015
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Here’s a copy of what I just posted about 12au7 tube rolling in the ‘tubes’ forum, might be useful for other Baltic owners

I have to admit a long love affair with the e80cc tube. It’s always been a fave of mine, comfortably outperforming superior 12au7 options in circuits where the extra current draw can be accommodated. One tube dealer describes it as being like a Telefunken ecc802s on steroids and I couldn’t have put it better myself - bigger / bolder / clearer etc.

In essence, not many know about this tube type and, when they do, the knowledge is largely restricted to the two ‘cooking’ versions from Philips Heerlen and Tungsram in Budapest. A fair bit of relabelling goes on e.g. Siemens / Valvo / Mullard, however if it has gold pins then it comes from Philips. The Hungarian Tungsram tends to have rhodium plated pins and holes in the plates. And that is what I have used myself for the past 15 years, with a few examples stashed away.

I recently bought two new pieces of equipment using 12au7 (Lampi Baltic and Riviera AFC headamp) and thought I should dig deeper into the back catalogues for superior examples. Without further ado, from left to right on the photo….

1C0DAD13-AC19-49A2-98F1-EBBB9CD3211A.jpeg



1) Telefunken G73r - a selected ecc802s with rfi absorbing coating
2) Philips SQ e80cc, regular late production
3) Siemens labeled Tungsram e80cc, regular late production
4) Tungsram industrial selected red label e80cc
5) Tungsram 1960 D Foil getter, pinched waist, welded plates e80cc
6) Philips SQ 1955 WK4 D Foil getter, pinched waist, welded plates e80cc
7) Tungsram 1958 nickel smooth plate D foil getter pinched waist

The evaluation was conducted in the Lampizator Baltic dac using EML 274B / Melz 1578 driven by Taiko’s Extreme and my best cabling options and I have been accompanied by the ever-perceptive @Blue58. Rather than dwell on the minutae between each tube, I’ll summarise the macro observations:

- performance runs from left to right, with big jumps at each end.
- the nickel Tram had an extraordinarily clear and structured presentation, resolution is a country mile ahead of all the others. My biggest dilemma with them is not the high price but the simple fact that they are already very rare but will be almost impossible to replace when they eventually wear out.
- thankfully, the cooking versions (3 & 4) are very satisfying as a daily listen and very cheap / plentiful. Big jump over the G73r
- The wk4 Philips has the most emotional connection and is a lovely listen.
- the Tak274b is too dense and homogenising to easily discern differences; the EML274 was more transparent
- talk of the 12au7 position on Baltic being unimportant is misplaced; significant deltas were observed.
 
Last edited:

mourip

Active Member
Feb 9, 2020
55
40
25
Here’s a copy of what I just posted about 12au7 tube rolling in the ‘tubes’ forum, might be useful for other Baltic owners

I have to admit a long love affair with the e80cc tube. It’s always been a fave of mine, comfortably outperforming superior 12au7 options in circuits where the extra current draw can be accommodated. One tube dealer describes it as being like a Telefunken ecc802s on steroids and I couldn’t have put it better myself - bigger / bolder / clearer etc.

In essence, not many know about this tube type and, when they do, the knowledge is largely restricted to the two ‘cooking’ versions from Philips Heerlen and Tungsram in Budapest. A fair bit of relabelling goes on e.g. Siemens / Valvo / Mullard, however if it has gold pins then it comes from Philips. The Hungarian Tungsram tends to have rhodium plated pins and holes in the plates. And that is what I have used myself for the past 15 years, with a few examples stashed away.

I recently bought two new pieces of equipment using 12au7 (Lampi Baltic and Riviera AFC headamp) and thought I should dig deeper into the back catalogues for superior examples. Without further ado, from left to right on the photo….

1C0DAD13-AC19-49A2-98F1-EBBB9CD3211A.jpeg



1) Telefunken G73r - a selected ecc802s with rfi absorbing coating
2) Philips SQ e80cc, regular late production
3) Siemens labeled Tungsram e80cc, regular late production
4) Tungsram industrial selected red label e80cc
5) Tungsram 1960 D Foil getter, pinched waist, welded plates e80cc
6) Philips SQ 1955 WK4 D Foil getter, pinched waist, welded plates e80cc
7) Tungsram 1958 nickel smooth plate D foil getter pinched waist

The evaluation was conducted in the Lampizator Baltic dac using EML 274B / Melz 1578 driven by Taiko’s Extreme and my best cabling options and I have been accompanied by the ever-perceptive @Blue58. Rather than dwell on the minutae between each tube, I’ll summarise the macro observations:

- performance runs from left to right, with big jumps at each end.
- the nickel Tram had an extraordinarily clear and structured presentation, resolution is a country mile ahead of all the others. My biggest dilemma with them is not the high price but the simple fact that they are already very rare but will be almost impossible to replace when they eventually wear out.
- thankfully, the cooking versions (3 & 4) are very satisfying as a daily listen and very cheap / plentiful. Big jump over the G73r
- The wk4 Philips has the most emotional connection and is a lovely listen.
- the Tak274b is too dense and homogenising to easily discern differences; the EML274 was more transparent
- talk of the 12au7 position on Baltic being unimportant is misplaced; significant deltas were observed.

Thanks a lot for this. When you speak of increased current draw do you mean by the heater circuit? I assume that the Baltic has no problem with that?
 

Sablon Audio

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May 22, 2015
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mourip

Active Member
Feb 9, 2020
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- talk of the 12au7 position on Baltic being unimportant is misplaced; significant deltas were observed.
This is a very good point. Lampizator makes tube rolling confusing in their own manual.

"We sell the DAC with the best tubes we can find in consistent sustainable supply.
Therefore we feel you should not be tempted to change them for any reason."

The key words are "consistent sustainable supply." All they are saying is that it is not practical to build a product around tubes that are hard to get. They are not saying that there are not better tubes to be had. The second sentence is just plain misleading since they follow it with tips for tube rolling...

I think that most of us with a Baltic 3 would also argue with the percentage(%) values that they offer for the contribution towards sound quality that the tubes in the three positions offer. All of those tubes can make a BIG difference. The rectifier can bring way more than 10%. I would argue that they should just drop those percentages as it makes it seem that only the 6SN7 is worth rolling.

I am just nit picking. This will probably be my last DAC unless I inherit a lot of money and move up the Lampi chain. The Baltic is a world class product.

Paul
 

Golum

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2018
1,387
1,724
260
Lausanne, CH
This is a very good point. Lampizator makes tube rolling confusing in their own manual.

"We sell the DAC with the best tubes we can find in consistent sustainable supply.
Therefore we feel you should not be tempted to change them for any reason."

The key words are "consistent sustainable supply." All they are saying is that it is not practical to build a product around tubes that are hard to get. They are not saying that there are not better tubes to be had. The second sentence is just plain misleading since they follow it with tips for tube rolling...

I think that most of us with a Baltic 3 would also argue with the percentage(%) values that they offer for the contribution towards sound quality that the tubes in the three positions offer. All of those tubes can make a BIG difference. The rectifier can bring way more than 10%. I would argue that they should just drop those percentages as it makes it seem that only the 6SN7 is worth rolling.

I am just nit picking. This will probably be my last DAC unless I inherit a lot of money and move up the Lampi chain. The Baltic is a world class product.

Paul
Not really reading their sentence as confusing (maybe as I'm not native ENG speaker). They are just saying they deliver with the current production tubes which they can source regularly and based on their tests those are best of the ones they tried (again current production) so no need to roll. But we all know rolling makes a big changes so we roll and roll and roll...
 

mourip

Active Member
Feb 9, 2020
55
40
25
Not really reading their sentence as confusing (maybe as I'm not native ENG speaker). They are just saying they deliver with the current production tubes which they can source regularly and based on their tests those are best of the ones they tried (again current production) so no need to roll. But we all know rolling makes a big changes so we roll and roll and roll...
You and I agree and your English is very good!
 
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Vangelis

Well-Known Member
Oct 11, 2011
37
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325
I tried a pair of RCA 5692 red base tubes in the 6N7 position. The sound was dark, lacking life, drive density and energy, like the musicians were up way too late the night before. My tube supplier said well maybe I should try a pair of Sylvania’s or Tung-Sol’s. Anyone have a thought?
 

Sablon Audio

Industry Expert, VIP Donor
May 22, 2015
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@Vangelis - you might find this thread helpful. I would also strongly recommend the Tungsram e80cc and Padis fuse for their contribution towards ameliorating your concerns. Both of these are quite cheap.



 

VoicesInMyHead

Well-Known Member
Apr 7, 2018
95
205
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Sweden
I tried a pair of RCA 5692 red base tubes in the 6N7 position. The sound was dark, lacking life, drive density and energy, like the musicians were up way too late the night before. My tube supplier said well maybe I should try a pair of Sylvania’s or Tung-Sol’s. Anyone have a thought?

trying is the only way of knowing, right? ;) I'm all in the VT99/6F8G camp myself, I had an idea for a long time that RCA tubes was not my cup of tea, but here I am now with an old RCA 6F8G tube (with adapter) as my current favorite.

I think @Sablon Audio 's nice E80CC shootout also makes a point which is that not every tube is the same, these all look very similar, some of them even with the same branding name, but still they sound very different. It's almost to generalize a bit too much to say that an RCA tube is good or bad, that a Tungsram is good or bad etc, it depends on many more factors than the name and thus our experiences might also be very different, and not least our taste and preferences is likely different as well

I have two of the cheaper E80CC tubes myself (and now curious about the others), they look very similar, but one I like and the other one I think is way to clinical and sterile for my taste. reading descriptions and reviews online I would have thought the result should have been the reverse though. you never know....
 

mourip

Active Member
Feb 9, 2020
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... I would also strongly recommend the Tungsram e80cc and Padis fuse for their contribution towards ameliorating your concerns. Both of these are quite cheap.

I went to nostubeshop.com and was going to buy a pair but their shipping charge was a killer to the ex-British colony AKA USA.

Shipping was something like $53usd while the pair of tubes cost less than that. I suppose that given other purchases I have made in audio the total might have still been a good deal, but it was a bit hard to understand. I will keep looking for a pair on this side of the pond.
 

Sablon Audio

Industry Expert, VIP Donor
May 22, 2015
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Oh maybe that was automatically calculated - is worth asking Lajos directly as airmail should be more like $20 given the low weight.
 

L3RD

Member
May 1, 2022
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what exactly are these digital engines ? Do they contain off the shelf delta-sigma chip (ESS or AKM ?) or something in-house ? Just curious.
Hi Doug,

It seems like getting information from Lampizator is like pulling hens teeth these days. They are canceling my order for a BEST300B after saying that they expected to ship it last week. Anyway I read that Lukasz has said that all his DACs, as of February, will have engine #18 in them, and it is a USB programmable chip initially designed by another manufacturer and then modified by Lukasz. That's ALL second hand. I asked, but no answer was offered, and his site seems to be saying that at least some of his DACs are R2R, but who knows. The fun part is that if you ordered a DAC delivered before engine 18 was implemented and I bought one after, both are called Baltic 3, but they must be different or else why change anything? It all seems rather confusing. If you think that your DAC sounds like x, you, and z, but later DACs are somewhat different, how do buyers know what to think? Owners are not going to identify their DACs by engine or date because they are not even aware of a change as I understand it. Schiit did the same thing with the modified analog stage in their Yggdrasil DAC for a few months, though they did put a B at the end of the serial numbers of the later DACs, but they did all of that without informing anyone for several months. I know of no serial number changes with Lampizator DACs though. So, apparently they are now digital, but I was unable to get Lukasz to confirm or deny this...
 

tedwoods

New Member
Dec 14, 2021
9
11
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55
Anyway I read that Lukasz has said that all his DACs, as of February, will have engine #18 in them, and it is a USB programmable chip initially designed by another manufacturer and then modified by Lukasz. That's ALL second hand.
What is your source regarding engine #198?
 
Last edited:

tedwoods

New Member
Dec 14, 2021
9
11
3
55
Owners are not going to identify their DACs by engine or date because they are not even aware of a change
Both on the paperwork you receive with the DAC, as well as on its specs badge on the back (or underneath the chassis) there is clear info regarding the model number of its digital engine, tube set, etc. It has been this way since the very beginning (Level 4, etc).
 

L3RD

Member
May 1, 2022
96
17
8
64
Both on the paperwork you receive with the DAC, as well as on its specs badge on the back (or underneath the chassis) there is clear info regarding the model number of its digital engine, tube set, etc. It has been this way since the very beginning (Level 4, etc).
Thanks!
 

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