I don't understand the outrage expressed by individuals in this hobby. I've owned a Jeff Rowland 625 S2 amplifier for four years. KeithR tried the 625 S2 and prefers his Ampzilla amplifier. I'm not the least bit upset or mad at him. I'm not trying to tell him that it's his speakers, his ears, his room or anything else other than he prefers the Ampzilla amplifier. His preference for the Ampzilla amplifier compared to the 625 S2 does not invalidate my choice. He listened to the Pas Labs in his system and didn't prefer it. I actually applaud him for simply calling it like he heard it in his system. If you own a Pass Labs 350.8 amplifier and love it, keep loving it until you compare it to something else in your system that you prefer more.
KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search
- Thread starter KeithR
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Is there outrage being expressed by individuals over Keith's amplifier choice?
you actually criticized my decision, despite never hearing the second edition of the amp I chose. i mean, i've tried almost every amp in the universe, posted thoughts about all of them, and i still get crap. forums, lol.
i've also heard from several folks that i need new speakers now, just because some common amps didn't float my boat. it's all pretty amusing to me.
Keith said look for the page where i tried the ARC ref 160,.....
Damn now i gotta look through 140 pages
Lol , welcome to the universe .
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Criticism is hardly outrage, Keith. It actually doesn't bother me at all what you listen to. Just like to help people get good sound and I heard the Ampzillas at length and so it is hard for me to believe they are nearly the last word on amplification for the YGs. We much preferred a Sphinx Project 14 (a wonderful hybrid from Holland) and even the all SS Sphinx Project 18 over the Ampzilla on Apogee Divas but compared to some other crap it was ok. In the end, Tubes sounded a lot better but you knew that already
.I also never said the Ampzillas were worse than the usual suspects in high cost SS amps...I don't think most of those sound worth a damn regardless of the speaker. The only one that I think is in a similar vein to the Ampzilla soncially that you haven't tried that is readily available is BAT VK600se, which ain't half bad.
There is something to be said though about a speaker that measures virtually perfect except that it can't be driven properly by virtually anything. Any speaker that can't be driven by tubes for me is an instant no go anyway...but that is IMO.
What other tubes did you actually try besides the mediocre sounding ARC REf 160s? Any hybrids, like the Lamm M1.2 ref? Can't remember everything you tried...
Based on other amps that I heard on Keith's YG's, I doubt that the M1.2 amps would be able to sufficiently drive this speaker.
Of all of the amp/preamp configurations that Keith tried, I preferred the Music First and Roland set up my self. It gave up a little to the LTA/Ampzilla set up in terms of bass, but the presentation was more pleasant to me.
In short, the YG's are an unbelievably difficult speaker to drive which significantly limit the number of amps you have.
Good for Boulder and D agostino .
There is an upside to everything.
Ps but how were you keith able to try so many amps on those YG s .
A dealer in holland would have given you may be 3 to try but you gotta buy one.
All the amps i mentioned i bought/sold.
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Keith had his dealer bring some over, he brought some and took a few on loan.
Yes, it seems so. Regardless of it's other endearing features, that would be deal breaker for me as I consider the electronics too important to the overall sound to be hemmed in like that.
Agreed. I will say that Keith is getting really nice sound of his current system. Credit for the current sound goes to the LTA preamp, is a beautifully made product and "fixed" the harshness issues I had with the Ampzilla's.
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Why do you think the M1.2 would not be able to drive the YG's. It is a huge (pair) 110 watt amp. I have the 175 watt Gryphon Mephisto connected to a pair of YG Hailey's and it drives them plenty loud. The difference in power is only 1.5 dB or so. In the end it depends on how loud Keith likes to listen.
The speakers are wildly inefficient. It seems like you need a minimum of 500 watts in 4 ohms to make them sing.
I could have used a better word than outrage. My point is I wish "we", the audiophile community would stop being so critical about individual component preference in such a subjective hobby.
No, you don't need 500W in 4 ohms. That's nice to have of course, to crank that Tron soundtrack at 105dB. I have played that same soundtrack in our big, big room, and the D'Agostino Momentum M400 barely go past the 400W mark. And that's at absurdly crazy loud levels.
So, no, for usual volumes levels, you need half of that.
I would love to listen to the Lamms on YG. Like Keith found out, it's not all about QUANTITY, but QUALITY, and I think the Lamm would deliver that. A certain well known brand that he tried, with lots of power on tap, came dead last. It wasn't for lack of power, but simply the QUALITY just wasn't there (like I told him it wouldn't be).
I'm glad Keith took the plunge on a different preamp, after much suggesting on my part. The problem there was that he DID have a great preamp (in the Music First), but it was just not what his system needed at that point. I remembered Keith likes tubes, and at that point, he had none, so, enter the tube preamp!
Personally that's where I like some tubes in a system as well, in the preamp, and again, I'm glad he found a piece that works for him and complements the Ampzilla well.
So, no, for usual volumes levels, you need half of that.
I would love to listen to the Lamms on YG. Like Keith found out, it's not all about QUANTITY, but QUALITY, and I think the Lamm would deliver that. A certain well known brand that he tried, with lots of power on tap, came dead last. It wasn't for lack of power, but simply the QUALITY just wasn't there (like I told him it wouldn't be).
I'm glad Keith took the plunge on a different preamp, after much suggesting on my part. The problem there was that he DID have a great preamp (in the Music First), but it was just not what his system needed at that point. I remembered Keith likes tubes, and at that point, he had none, so, enter the tube preamp!
Personally that's where I like some tubes in a system as well, in the preamp, and again, I'm glad he found a piece that works for him and complements the Ampzilla well.
I have enjoyed following this journey very much. For what it is worth, as a data point, I was using the Simaudio 870a stereo amp with my Hailey 2.2s and loved the synergy. Recently I upgraded to their 860a v2 monos. I honestly didn't know what the speakers were capable of until making this switch. It was as if the bass modules woke up. To my ears, incredible fast, layered, tighter and weightier bass. The v2 also resulted in more organic mid-range and detail. Amazing dynamics. I know Sim also ascribes to the quality not quantity philosophy. That said, adding the second amp really made a helpful difference.
Really easy to believe the 860a V2 would be a wonderful pairing with YG. The speed, control and dynamic sound they produce.
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