KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search
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Avantgarde Duo GT and Trio w/ Spacehorn:
It took me awhile to get up to our forum mate Todd's house to hear the big Avantgardes. I have heard Duos several times over the years (including a demo in London in 2019 on Nagra 300b PP), but had not heard Trios since the 2000s. I had also enjoyed hearing the new Mezzo at Axpona 2024.
The Duo was setup in a similar sized setup to my own - and the iTron was used for amplification with a Phasemation preamp. The SET amps were not used. Todd is really an expert setup person and should be used for all AG installs across the country. You could tell from the beginning the speakers were dialed in to maximize the experience. I really don't have much to say compared with my original demo years ago, they are dynamic and had decent tone. The XD bass implementation is excellent and while I searched for hearing the crossover point, I couldn't hear it. The sound quality was great, the only criticism was the bass level was a bit high for my taste and therefore the timbre sounded a bit different than the midrange horn. I considered getting a pair of Duos several years ago, but ultimately went with the Fynes for several reasons, including my growing preference for SS amps and their much easier setup. The AG really requires an expert (and we are lucky to have Todd now at the helm).
While the Duos were fun, I had really come to experience the Trios and they didn't disappoint! This is one of the finest audio systems I've ever heard. They were setup with the iTron again, but with CH preamp/dac. I was really concerned with how coherent they would be, but the setup really had no holes at all. It was just huge, dynamic, enjoyable sound with a transparency/resolution that I had not heard on AG previously. They did not have the overblown images that other big horn systems have. Now, the room I was in was very large and you need that size to let the Trios breathe. But this is a "do it all" speaker when properly setup. What was also notable was the bass presentation between the Trios and Duos - it was just more natural on the Spacehorns and had texture in spades. My only preference was for a little more liquidity and I feel that tubes are still my solution for AGs. The Duo system seemed to have more of it than the Trio system, but again Todd's preference is for SS throughout. Upon reflection since, I would prefer AG with more of the horn-based bass implementation - so Mezzo or Trio depending on room size. The latest Mezzo is designed with a short horn to bridge the gap and is not a Duo, intentionally.
It took me awhile to get up to our forum mate Todd's house to hear the big Avantgardes. I have heard Duos several times over the years (including a demo in London in 2019 on Nagra 300b PP), but had not heard Trios since the 2000s. I had also enjoyed hearing the new Mezzo at Axpona 2024.
The Duo was setup in a similar sized setup to my own - and the iTron was used for amplification with a Phasemation preamp. The SET amps were not used. Todd is really an expert setup person and should be used for all AG installs across the country. You could tell from the beginning the speakers were dialed in to maximize the experience. I really don't have much to say compared with my original demo years ago, they are dynamic and had decent tone. The XD bass implementation is excellent and while I searched for hearing the crossover point, I couldn't hear it. The sound quality was great, the only criticism was the bass level was a bit high for my taste and therefore the timbre sounded a bit different than the midrange horn. I considered getting a pair of Duos several years ago, but ultimately went with the Fynes for several reasons, including my growing preference for SS amps and their much easier setup. The AG really requires an expert (and we are lucky to have Todd now at the helm).
While the Duos were fun, I had really come to experience the Trios and they didn't disappoint! This is one of the finest audio systems I've ever heard. They were setup with the iTron again, but with CH preamp/dac. I was really concerned with how coherent they would be, but the setup really had no holes at all. It was just huge, dynamic, enjoyable sound with a transparency/resolution that I had not heard on AG previously. They did not have the overblown images that other big horn systems have. Now, the room I was in was very large and you need that size to let the Trios breathe. But this is a "do it all" speaker when properly setup. What was also notable was the bass presentation between the Trios and Duos - it was just more natural on the Spacehorns and had texture in spades. My only preference was for a little more liquidity and I feel that tubes are still my solution for AGs. The Duo system seemed to have more of it than the Trio system, but again Todd's preference is for SS throughout. Upon reflection since, I would prefer AG with more of the horn-based bass implementation - so Mezzo or Trio depending on room size. The latest Mezzo is designed with a short horn to bridge the gap and is not a Duo, intentionally.
Thanks for taking the time to provide your insights. The AG Trio G3 with dual basshorns I heard was fantastic. I could certainly tell it was very very exacting...and when I noted a few details of its character, the dealer looked at me with a slightly exhausted look and said 'they are very difficult to set up extremely well'. So it does seem to require some very experienced hands.
When done well, it is one of the finest sounds I have heard and quite possibly the finest. I would say my other favorite is the Rockport Arrakis, but I intuitively came away thinking the AG Trio had even greater ability to fill a room (without strain of what one would perceived as 'loud').
When done well, it is one of the finest sounds I have heard and quite possibly the finest. I would say my other favorite is the Rockport Arrakis, but I intuitively came away thinking the AG Trio had even greater ability to fill a room (without strain of what one would perceived as 'loud').
@KeithR -if you are ever in Arizona, you should come listen to my Aries Cerat system including the Aurora speakers, picture to the left.
Wilson Sasha V:
I stopped by a local dealer to chat analog, but ended up getting 45 mins with the latest Watt/Puppy. The Sasha V has the alnico midrange of several of the higher up speakers now, but I just found that the speaker on all ARC Ref gear was a little overripe. I used to prefer ARC with Wilson previously, but left wondering if a different pairing made more sense. The bass was there but a bit fuzzy, dynamics were ok (not as good as Fyne or Stenheim). I also was puzzled at the setup, which seemed like a Peter McGrath special where they are close to the walls. This limited depth and soundstage from my perspective. All-in-all, Wilson continues to evolve, but I questioned the $50k that is needed for a new Watt/Puppy. In fact, the former Sasha DAW (which I heard when my journey begun) was more impressive from memory at ~$38k. I would lean to buying used DAWs and skip the "upgrade."
I stopped by a local dealer to chat analog, but ended up getting 45 mins with the latest Watt/Puppy. The Sasha V has the alnico midrange of several of the higher up speakers now, but I just found that the speaker on all ARC Ref gear was a little overripe. I used to prefer ARC with Wilson previously, but left wondering if a different pairing made more sense. The bass was there but a bit fuzzy, dynamics were ok (not as good as Fyne or Stenheim). I also was puzzled at the setup, which seemed like a Peter McGrath special where they are close to the walls. This limited depth and soundstage from my perspective. All-in-all, Wilson continues to evolve, but I questioned the $50k that is needed for a new Watt/Puppy. In fact, the former Sasha DAW (which I heard when my journey begun) was more impressive from memory at ~$38k. I would lean to buying used DAWs and skip the "upgrade."
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Like dipping your toes but never jump in , lol..
Keith did you try Hegel ?
Hard to beat for the money
I ve gone in to deep already , no return possible .
Ps I have also a possible amp change on the horizon , I m going dutch ,....iow cheap/ good and efficient .
.
as a Mezzo G3 owner I can state this should not be exaggerated. I have heard the entire G3 line. Biggest problem is always to underestimate how looooooooong systems need to settle. When that’s done, you will be hard pressed to find better within the price ranges and in the case of the Trios/Spacehorns above the price range.
The Avantgarde Mezzo G3; mid and high driven by an Airtight Reference 300B.
Did you have an Avantgarde speaker from the previous generation (XD) ? If so, how do you think the new G3 is different/better?The Avantgarde Mezzo G3; mid and high driven by an Airtight Reference 300B.
Unfortunately I didn’t. This is my first horn loudspeaker and I couldn’t be happier
! Everything I play feels like an event, pure music. All my musical dreams came true. For the the years ahead… my only wish is to get a Kondo Ongaku. Not that the Airtight isn’t fantastic. But well … ye know… Ongaku I have heard the new Uno SD (G3 version) last November driven by a 300B amp that I wasn't previously familiar with. The sound was really lovely. The highs were relatively soft, something I don't normally attribute to Avantgarde sound, which could be either the character of the unfamiliar amp or the new tweeter AG is using. I have heard also the Duo GT and Trio but both with Itron and neither of them I liked, whereas I like the Uno SD with 300B amp very much. I think your Mezzo G3s with Air Tight must sound wonderful. I have been toying with getting a Duo XD or the new Duo SD or GT because the Mezzo is probably a bit too much for my space.Unfortunately I didn’t. This is my first horn loudspeaker and I couldn’t be happier
I considered iTron but I got a great deal on the Mezzo from a fantastic dealer so I took it. In hindsight it was pure luck. The iTron is much faster but not as musical as a 300B amp. You can’t go wrong with the duo GT (and probably also with the earlier types providing you use a decent tube amp) but I have to be honest… the Mezzo is way better! The Mezzo leans towards the Trio. It is a big loudspeaker but it works in my room (3,8 x 7,5 metres). A full stack of various Acoustic Grove System (AGS) products certainly helps opening the soundstage and eliminating standing waves. AGS rules in acoustic treatments. Good luck in your quest for the ultimate sound
!Well for me when I hear ITron is much faster, I only hear much drier...and that dryness isn't natural sounding.I considered iTron but I got a great deal on the Mezzo from a fantastic dealer so I took it. In hindsight it was pure luck. The iTron is much faster but not as musical as a 300B amp. You can’t go wrong with the duo GT (and probably also with the earlier types providing you use a decent tube amp) but I have to be honest… the Mezzo is way better! The Mezzo leans towards the Trio. It is a big loudspeaker but it works in my room (3,8 x 7,5 metres). A full stack of various Acoustic Grove System (AGS) products certainly helps opening the soundstage and eliminating standing waves. AGS rules in acoustic treatments. Good luck in your quest for the ultimate sound
First of all, Congratulations on your new G3 Mezzo.my only wish is to get a Kondo Ongaku. Not that the Airtight isn’t fantastic. But well … ye know… Ongaku
IMO, If sound is more important to you than brand, and you don't want to spend extra money on brands "Kondo" "Airtight"..., and you also want to get the best musical performance from Avantgarde, go for SETs with less power and more pure sound, like 45, 2a3 and try something like Triode Lab EVO 45 Reference with large 20W Hashimoto (Sansui) output transformers.
AFAI remember someone in this forum much preferred his 10k Triode Lab 45 monos over 100k Ongaku with Diesis (98db).
And as for 300b, VIVA CLASSICO is much smarter choice than Airtight with AGs at the same price, those Airtight 300b SETs use negative feedback (has low output impedances of 0.84 ohms) and this NFB kills the nuances and overall musicality with high sensitivity horns and also they're less quiet, they're better match with AN E or Devores cone speakers.
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