KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search

[DaveC]

Exactly. And more powerful solid bass and oomph will come from horns instead of that cabinet distortion if there are two 18 inch woofers (or 15) in each speaker, front loaded, open

Cabinet distortion? That's pretty much negligible with most designs these days.

 

[morricab]

This thing about playing at realistic levels with no fatigue is very true indeed with my new horns (arrived 25 hrs ago lol). I only noticed last night when I took a meter out and recorded 98.7dB peak when I was in night listening mode ahahaha. Excuse the carnage in my room - just dumped them in for now.

View attachment 48155

What are those bad boys??

 

[Audiophile Bill]

What are those bad boys??

Hi Brad,

Those are the infamous BD Swing MKIIs. They are interesting speakers: semi-active since the bass (15” 100dB woofer in front loaded tractrix horn) has its own amp in the plinth and the modified BMS coaxial compression driver up top runs au naturelle using your amp of choice. The in built bass amp sees its signal as a high level input from your main amp. So for me that is currently the 1.25 watt Mayer doing the job. The top driver is 115dB / 16ohms so obscenely easy load. Half way on the 10Y preamp gives you 100dB continuous at the listening seat - mad.

 

[jeff1225]

This thing about playing at realistic levels with no fatigue is very true indeed with my new horns (arrived 25 hrs ago lol). I only noticed last night when I took a meter out and recorded 98.7dB peak when I was in night listening mode ahahaha. Excuse the carnage in my room - just dumped them in for now.

View attachment 48155

I would love to see more pictures of this wonderful system!

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I would love to see more pictures of this wonderful system!

Hi Jeffrey,

My room is an utter tip right now with cables, vintage drivers, vinyl, speakers, tubes, soldering irons everywhere like a mad professors lab. I promise I will clean it all up very soon and send some photos.

 

[jeff1225]

Hi Jeffrey,

My room is an utter tip right now with cables, vintage drivers, vinyl, speakers, tubes, soldering irons everywhere like a mad professors lab. I promise I will clean it all up very soon and send some photos.

But I don't want to see some perfect room....I want to see the laboratory!

 

[DaveC]

Those are the infamous BD Swing MKIIs.

Congrats! Beautiful speakers and with that amp, surely one of the best systems possible.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

But I don't want to see some perfect room....I want to see the laboratory!

Sporadic carnage:


View attachment 48162

 

[Audiophile Bill]

But I don't want to see some perfect room....I want to see the laboratory!

More carnage lol:

 

[Audiophile Bill]

A little more:

 

[jeff1225]

No audio dungeon photo montage is complete without a sighting of a soldering iron.

 

[KeithR]

Hey guys- if you want to chat Bill's horns, please create a new thread. I will not be auditioning those speakers.

No Kedar, I mean exactly what I wrote. I should add that Rockitman's large Wilsons also capture this "dynamics and oomph" that Ron wrote Keith is after from cone speakers. I have heard other speaker typologies do extremely well with other sonic attributes.

I would be quite interested in reading Keith's thoughts on this subject.

I think its a lot easier to make a more efficient speaker dynamic vs. the opposite. And typically you lose something in the translation when you choose the second route. Part of the issue with "compares" is we don't use the same amps on the appropriate speakers - for instance, even though I prefer Dartzeel to Dagostino (I've auditioned both integrateds on the same speaker), its not an ideal match with YG. So does not having the Dart on YG inevitably lose something? - that's the $ question that is rarely asked. And you can completely ask the question in reverse! To resolve this conundrum, my focus for the past few years has been more on the minimalist circuit side - less is more in MikeL-speak. Even my P/P amplifier is a simple pair of output tubes per channel (and my speakers require PP).

To me, "dynamics" is much more on the micro level as I don't listen to 100db 1812 Overture sound - which unfortunately is how dynamics is described by most of the audio press. It really relates to a freedom from the speaker and sense of ease. Picking of guitar strings, the hard pluck of a string bow, etc. That jump factor is what I believe separates audio reproduction with the real thing and if I'm reading you correctly, is exactly what you heard with the live quartet.

I would also say on the macro dynamic side, some electronica I really enjoy has a shove factor needed that expands the impact and envelopment of the soundstage (see Air's first track of Pocket Symphony, some Aphex Twin, or Massive Attack). One thing about owning Zu for so long is you get used to this feeling - which is why I'm probably more apt to feel a speaker is underpowered than most. So on speakers like Rockport and YG, I am more apt to use big Class A/B power.

So going back to panels in terms of dynamics, I certainly loved a Maggie 3.7 audition a year ago but felt that lack of "oomph" even at lower levels. I did really enjoy its coherency and bass characteristics although the soundstage is narrow. With a lower budget of only 5k with a good amp in hand, it indeed could be in my top 5 and I can't fault audiophiles for choosing that direction. As far as the Alysyvox, I don't understand an $89k panel prima facie, but I would have to hear it on electronica to have any idea. And I would venture horns would do that genre much better.

 

[DaveyF]

Keith, the smallest model Alsyvox is what might make some sense for you. It is far less $$ than the larger siblings.
I suspect if you like Maggie 3.7’s, then the little Tintoretto might be all that- and everything else you are looking for. Problem is giving it an audition!

 

[PeterA]

To me, "dynamics" is much more on the micro level as I don't listen to 100db 1812 Overture sound - which unfortunately is how dynamics is described by most of the audio press. It really relates to a freedom from the speaker and sense of ease. Picking of guitar strings, the hard pluck of a string bow, etc. That jump factor is what I believe separates audio reproduction with the real thing and if I'm reading you correctly, is exactly what you heard with the live quartet.

Thanks Keith. Yes, that micro dynamics, that ease and cohesiveness, that pure energy delivered in an effortless, natural way, is what I hear from superb large cone speakers systems like Madfloyd's and Rockitman's. There is a jump factor, a lack of fatigue, and frankly, there is a realism that I rarely hear from systems, regardless of speaker typology. That piano trio was superb last night, and it did not have me thinking about audiophile jargon. Simply energy, and naturalness.

The key to Ron's earlier post is the combination of both "dynamics AND oomph". I'm talking about a speaker that can do both. Perhaps some speakers like great horns can indeed do dynamics better, but they usually fall short on the oomph. The best large cone speakers, based on my limited listening experience, can do both pretty darn convincingly.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Thanks Keith. Yes, that micro dynamics, that ease and cohesiveness, that pure energy delivered in an effortless, natural way, is what I hear from superb large cone speakers systems like Madfloyd's and Rockitman's. There is a jump factor, a lack of fatigue, and frankly, there is a realism that I rarely hear from systems, regardless of speaker typology. That piano trio was superb last night, and it did not have me thinking about audiophile jargon. Simply energy, and naturalness.

The key to Ron's earlier post is the combination of both "dynamics AND oomph". I'm talking about a speaker that can do both. Perhaps some speakers like great horns can indeed do dynamics better, but they usually fall short on the oomph. The best large cone speakers, based on my limited listening experience, can do both pretty darn convincingly.

Hi Peter,

I am not sure what you mean by horns falling short on “oomph” - it is one of their key upsides unless your definition doesn’t coincide with my one.

In terms of the microdynamic fluctuations - the best system I ever heard by far do that is the General’s Pnoes. The tiniest fluctuations in individual notes are unveiled beautifully. Really it is a thing to behold. I do think highly sensitive systems are better able to capture this. Inefficient cones simply by the laws of physics can’t achieve this to the same degree. I don’t hear this quality in Wilsons and Magicos when driven with their usual “show” amplification - granted this might be better in home systems.
In terms of tone, do you think the Magico / Pass combination is faithfully reproducing what you heard in the live string quartet?

 

[Folsom]

It’s not the cones themselves.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

It’s not the cones themselves.

Is this to me? What are you saying - please can you expand.

 

[Folsom]

Is this to me? What are you saying - please can you expand.

Box, crossover, and mostly the electronics determine being able to hear stuff at a low level. Cones are perfectly capable.

 

[christoph]

Keith, the smallest model Alsyvox is what might make some sense for you. It is far less $$ than the larger siblings.
I suspect if you like Maggie 3.7’s, then the little Tintoretto might be all that- and everything else you are looking for. Problem is giving it an audition!

Davey, do you know how much the smallest AlsyVox model costs?

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Box, crossover, and mostly the electronics determine being able to hear stuff at a low level. Cones are perfectly capable.

Yes there are examples of cones being capable. The Devore Orangutang appears to be one of those.