Is High End Audio Gear Worth the Money?

(...) High-end types probably live in the doomed hope of getting 100% of the experience from their systems, whereas the more time you spend going to live shows the more ridiculous that seems. To young folk immersed in live music high-end hifi must seem just mad. I was speaking to a dealer on Friday (bought a new phono) and his view was that many high-end customers don't actually associate high-end with live music, it's a entirely separate pursuit towards some ethereal goal.

No. high-end is simply an hobby for most of us. It happens to be associated with music for most, not all, audiophiles. As any hobby, it can have a social, intellectual and non rational part.

Some of my audiophile friends seldom go to concerts or real music performances and love music - one of them is a real experts in classical music, know about performances, artists and conductors. All of it from comes from sound reproduction with nice, balanced and enjoyable systems.

People can listen and love music and never enter a concert hall.

High-end is a sub-section of sound reproduction, we should not forget it!

Your dealer was not telling you anything that is not well known since long :

"But for me there’s something else–another resonance, lingering, more unsettling, closer to home. In the end I confused hardware aficionados and real music lovers. Most audiophiles, I was to learn, don’t “do” concerts. It’s part of the religion, but not part of the life. "

From "Are Audiophiles Music Lovers?" By Keith Yates
https://keithyates.com/652/
 
With the title of the thread being ”Is High End Audio Gear Worth the Money?”
and his response…

It sounds like @ssfas is saying “No, high end gear is Not worth the money. Just put the money into a new power line.”
I was agreeing on the power issue. It made all the difference to me.

I didn’t say anything about whether high end gear is worth the money because I’ve never spent megabucks on hifi. I have friends who are very wealthy, where money is just a number, they could buy the world’s most expensive hifi without skipping a beat. As none to my knowledge have any interest in music, one in particular would consider even a $30 Alexa Dot of no value as it would not contribute anything to his wellbeing.

On the other hand, if high-end hifi is all that matters in your life, besides putting aside enough money to pay the rent and feed yourself, spending every last penny on hifi would be the best way to get value from your money.

It really depends how you perceive value. If you take the view that the aim is to maximise your happiness and wellbeing, there is a long established school of thought that expenditure usually only results in a short-term elevation and you are doomed to the same level of happiness or unhappiness. I suspect this is the case for many audiophiles.
 
i think it's a mistake and bad form to denigrate other's choices for musical enjoyment. and tell others how they should feel or not feel about their experience. how do you know what ROI i or anyone you don't know might get from their system?

i respect that you have your own priorities, and am happy for you that it's checking your boxes. and informing us about what you love and your priorities is a positive. we can learn from that.

if i lived in another location maybe my viewpoint would be different? maybe if you lived somewhere else yours might be different too. but taking that and trying to somehow claim high musical enjoyment ground is over the line. it's personal. one is not objectively superior to another. it's finding the peace of mind and experience we want that counts. sometimes that is in our own home. we can never walk in someone else's shoes and know exactly what they know.
I think you missed the point. As a high end dealer said to me last week, home audio is often detached from live music as a separate musical enterprise and 100% may be achievable in that context.

Personally I can achieve that detachment from time to time and enjoy stereo a lot. To maximise it, I listen at home to a lot of music I don’t or can’t hear live. When I have periods of a lot of live music, I find my stereo generally unsatisfying as a musical experience.
 
This YouTube video reminds me of my own path to “high end”. Sort of my whole audiophile life passing before my eyes. Not applicable to many, doesn’t answer the OP question either but enjoyable all the same.
 
I think you missed the point. As a high end dealer said to me last week, home audio is often detached from live music as a separate musical enterprise and 100% may be achievable in that context.

Personally I can achieve that detachment from time to time and enjoy stereo a lot. To maximise it, I listen at home to a lot of music I don’t or can’t hear live. When I have periods of a lot of live music, I find my stereo generally unsatisfying as a musical experience.
i have no problem with you expressing your own opinions about what you like and prefer and how your live music intake effects that perspective.

where i have the problem is you then assigning negativity to how you think others should view their home audio....like when you wrote this.

your words.......

High-end types probably live in the doomed hope of getting 100% of the experience from their systems, whereas the more time you spend going to live shows the more ridiculous that seems.

i hope it makes you feel better about your own priorities.

personally there are parts of live music that i'd like my home audio to be more like. but far more aspects i prefer about my home audio music experience. i get 100% of what i prefer from home audio. but celebrate your happiness with your priorities too. we don't need to try to trivialize or make light of anyone else's likes.
 
i have no problem with you expressing your own opinions about what you like and prefer and how your live music intake effects that perspective.

where i have the problem is you then assigning negativity to how you think others should view their home audio....like when you wrote this.

your words.......

High-end types probably live in the doomed hope of getting 100% of the experience from their systems, whereas the more time you spend going to live shows the more ridiculous that seems.

i hope it makes you feel better about your own priorities.

You know, it’s kind of interesting. Personally, I have no illusions that listening experience at home is going to be 100% exactly like the listening experience at a live event, especially a large live event like a symphony at the BSO. However, I have attended a few smaller scale events lately of string performances in a medium size hall. I sat very close to the performers, which is not unlike the perspective a microphone has. And as I have worked on my system and fine-tuning the set up over the last couple of years, I am finding that the experience of listening to this type of music at home is getting closer and closer to what I experience at the live event, particularly in terms of balance and tone. The sense of energy and dynamics is somewhat different, but getting better. Scale is also fairly similar for this type of music.

The two are indeed separate experiences, and I understand why people do not conflate them, but at some level they are somewhat converging. I am optimistic. Live, unamplified music remains the reference against which I judge the performance of my system.
 
Last edited:
(...) When I have periods of a lot of live music, I find my stereo generally unsatisfying as a musical experience.


I do not know what type of music yous listen. Curiously after a classical live musical experience I find my system much more satisfying and enjoyable. Probably listening to life refreshes my references that I unconsciously used to assemble and tune the system.
 
Since this is the "Is high end worth it" thread....listening to Metallica is just as enjoyable (as an audiophile) to these ears, as the acoustic ensemble. You just have to have a system that can perform both.

Exceptional recordings are just the crème de la crème.

Tom
 
Since this is the "Is high end worth it" thread....listening to Metallica is just as enjoyable (as an audiophile) to these ears, as the acoustic ensemble. You just have to have a system that can perform both.

Exceptional recordings are just the crème de la crème.

Tom

Totally. Also, one of my main criteria for any new component is great rhythm & timing on rock. This is not as trivial as it may seem.
 
Exactly. Try Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band...

See if your system performs the same way, or with the same performance (exquisiteness) of a small ensemble.

Start with Sing, sang, sung or Backrow Politics...then go back to a easy ensemble or vocal(s).

Tom
 
High, low, and ultra high convey monetary values.

State of mind is more about degree of hobby.

For example, you could have a guy order a dealer to install a complete 200k system in his home, and he leaves it untouched from install. He is in the high end, but not so much an hobbyist, as the other guy who buys used items regularly for 20 years and keeps churning things, scratching different curiosities. Both of them might have an equally good or equally bad sound, but the first one is not a hobbyist compared to the second, irrespective of what the cost of equipment of the second guy is.

I just made that up but it sounds logical so must be right.
Logical enough that you are right.

What is the point of owning a 200k system if you don't listen to it? Perhaps the supposed prestige of owning something few can afford is the motivation. Fine, whatever floats your boat but you are missing the enjoyment of the journey and the pleasure of the music!
 
I was agreeing on the power issue. It made all the difference to me.

I didn’t say anything about whether high end gear is worth the money because I’ve never spent megabucks on hifi. I have friends who are very wealthy, where money is just a number, they could buy the world’s most expensive hifi without skipping a beat. As none to my knowledge have any interest in music, one in particular would consider even a $30 Alexa Dot of no value as it would not contribute anything to his wellbeing.

On the other hand, if high-end hifi is all that matters in your life, besides putting aside enough money to pay the rent and feed yourself, spending every last penny on hifi would be the best way to get value from your money.

It really depends how you perceive value. If you take the view that the aim is to maximise your happiness and wellbeing, there is a long established school of thought that expenditure usually only results in a short-term elevation and you are doomed to the same level of happiness or unhappiness. I suspect this is the case for many audiophiles.
You have no idea what would constitute value for anyone other than yourself or even how they might perceive value in the first place. You are making judgements from a frame of reference that belongs only to you. Of course most rich people see no value in expensive hi fi. So? Is there some logic here that escapes me? No one that I know feels that hi fi is the only thing that matters in their life. What a curious construct to make such a dubious conclusion. This is the only way to get value from expensive hi fi? Your "school of thought" about expenditures applies to everything. I get tremendous pleasure from listening to my fairly (by WBF) expensive Hi Fi. I spent 2 years listening nightly to get me past the death of my wife. Growing up it was the glue behind several lifetime friendships. It is a spiritual journey for me. Speaking only for me and my frame of reference the quality of the gear allows me to be lost in a kind of awake meditation. Transfixed. That's me. You want to judge my 'value"? Good luck
 
I get it. But I’ve been on the ‘net since Netscape Navigator and Internet Explorer versions 1, so I doubt very much the giant databases have much more to learn about my buying habits, preferences, etc. Any efforts to safeguard myself at this point are probably pointless. And I love discovering new music — besides a couple SiriusXM channels in my truck i don’t otherwise listen to radio, and i’m kinda lazy about seeking it out so when ROON or Qobuz shows me a “curated for me” list I typically listen to the tracks, some are quickly discounted as not for me, others are a delight.

I have a young woman visit here twice a month for “assisted stretching”. She does both my wife and i for an hour each visit. I let ROON radio pick songs when my playlist ended. ROON served up a song this young woman once danced to as a professional ballerina. (We set up the massage table in my listening room.) She was “hey, I know this song, can you turn it up?” I found the piece extremely moving — the ballerina offered to dance it for us on our back lawn. How fun would that be!

Veronica Swift also does justice to the song on both her album with the same name as the song.

For YouTubers:
 
That feels more like audiophile cope than objectively a better value.
What's an "audiophile cope"?

We spent about $500k extending, rebuilding and refurnishing our house, of which the electrical work was about $25k (excluding the sound/light system throughout the house). The acoustic work in the new music/reading room, previously the dining room, cost about $4k and the dedicated electrical spur about $300.

I went from a large non-dedicated living room with a broken single phase power supply on a ring main to a smaller dedicated treated room on its own phase from a new 3-phase power supply. Without changing any components, the improvement was dramatic.

Having a much better listening space made it worthwhile changing some of the hifi (the speakers have not changed). It would have been a waste of money and of no value to do those changes in the old listening space.

Good hifi is only worthwhile if you have a suitable place to use it. The electrical infrastructure is a significant part of that, especially in the UK where we use rings mains.
 
You have no idea what would constitute value for anyone other than yourself or even how they might perceive value in the first place. You are making judgements from a frame of reference that belongs only to you. Of course most rich people see no value in expensive hi fi. So? Is there some logic here that escapes me? No one that I know feels that hi fi is the only thing that matters in their life. What a curious construct to make such a dubious conclusion. This is the only way to get value from expensive hi fi? Your "school of thought" about expenditures applies to everything. I get tremendous pleasure from listening to my fairly (by WBF) expensive Hi Fi. I spent 2 years listening nightly to get me past the death of my wife. Growing up it was the glue behind several lifetime friendships. It is a spiritual journey for me. Speaking only for me and my frame of reference the quality of the gear allows me to be lost in a kind of awake meditation. Transfixed. That's me. You want to judge my 'value"? Good luck
I was expressing a utilitarian approach. The "school of thought" I was referring to is called Hedonic Adaptation or the Hedonic Treadmill.

Sadly I have met people for whom hifi seemed to have overtaken their life, at the expense of their relationships. I had a client whose wife gave him an ultimatum to choose between motor racing (he ran his business to fund a GT team) and her, so he chose motor racing.

People attain various points of obsession and to the extent that an obsession dominates their lives it can dominate their finances. Audiophilia is often referred to as an addiction and the most destructive of addictions, like drugs and gambling, ruin the finances and lives of millions of people.

I met my wife though a shared love of dance. She was a ballet dancer. It's been an important part of our marriage. We have many other cultural interests as well. I don't mix aestheticism with spirituality (being religiously observant).

Someone could be obsessed with hifi, ballet or drugs and spend all their money on it. Our societal values consider some obsessions good, others bad. Personally I'm a believer of everything in moderation. Sometimes I wish I was more obsessive.

Of course hifi is of value to different people at different levels, including me. I'm not judging anyone, whether they only have a pair of headphones (like one of my kids) or have a house full of expensive hifi. Hedonic adaptation postulates that after a point spending more money only has transitory benefit, probably best illustrated by people who constantly "upgrade" cables.

Of course hifi is small change compared to cars. My father used to have an expensive car. He used to go on about how I would inherit it, as if I would enjoy it like he did. When he died, the first thing I did was sell his car (my sister needed the money) and used most of my share to buy a piece of Korean ceramic. It hangs in our kitchen gives me pleasure every day.

Without wishing to be controversial, to me high-end hifi seems to be just another transitory technology. It emerged in the 1950s (thanks to full frequency sound and to a lesser extent stereo). Due to population growth, globalisation and advances in technology (principally the change from physical to streamed data), I would expect to see 2-channel static hifi largely disappear in my lifetime. I mostly listen through ceiling speaker/ights and wireless headphones.
 
  • Like
Reactions: John T
I had a client whose wife gave him an ultimatum to choose between motor racing (he ran his business to fund a GT team) and her, so he chose motor racing
Sad story. But maybe he is better off without her. ´There has be be an acceptance of oddities and special interests and even obsessions in a relationship. You cant own another person, you can just live with them -- or not.
The question if hifi is worth the money is simple for me. Yes it is -- to me. What Im worried about is if it make me into a more materialistic person. If physical things becomes too important. I see that as a danger in this hobby. Revering objects... is a dangerous path to walk.
And of course -- it is a nerdy hobby. I have to realize that very few people have any interest in it. If I meet other people I can't go on talking about hifi -- or I will lose friends. Realizing that hifi is completely nonsensincal to most peolpe puts it into perspective.
So why bother about it? I agree with Peter A that music out of a system have other and in some parts better qualities than live music. Its possible to set up microphones in a way to capture the complete orchestra in a way you never can hear it from a listerners position in a concert hall. Is that worth something? Yes a lot to me.
 
Sad story. But maybe he is better off without her. ´There has be be an acceptance of oddities and special interests and even obsessions in a relationship. You cant own another person, you can just live with them -- or not.
The question if hifi is worth the money is simple for me. Yes it is -- to me. What Im worried about is if it make me into a more materialistic person. If physical things becomes too important. I see that as a danger in this hobby. Revering objects... is a dangerous path to walk.
And of course -- it is a nerdy hobby. I have to realize that very few people have any interest in it. If I meet other people I can't go on talking about hifi -- or I will lose friends. Realizing that hifi is completely nonsensincal to most peolpe puts it into perspective.
So why bother about it? I agree with Peter A that music out of a system have other and in some parts better qualities than live music. Its possible to set up microphones in a way to capture the complete orchestra in a way you never can hear it from a listerners position in a concert hall. Is that worth something? Yes a lot to me.
Pretty much the same here. Never discuss hifi with friends and my wife just doesn't want to know anything about it.

A good way to avoid objectifying hifi is to think of it from the purely practical viewpoint, no different from a dishwasher or tumble dryer. In my case it has to be as boring as possible (all black boxes, as few lights and knobs as possible) and it's stuck in a corner of the room in one stack. The speakers were chosen by my wife for their looks. Others may have a completely different view and want all the bells and whistles, Nagra or D'Agostino style, for which the outsides probably cost as much as the insides and likely double the price.

I have been to concerts that sounded terrible and then were released as live recordings where the sound was vastly better. Listening to bands like Massive Attack and Radiohead live and recorded are just different, but very enjoyable in both cases. If you've ever been to live baroque orchestral music directed from the harpsichord (very common), you can rarely hear the keyboard unless you are sitting very close, but in recordings the balance is usually very different and much better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gotland
You have no idea what would constitute value for anyone other than yourself or even how they might perceive value in the first place. You are making judgements from a frame of reference that belongs only to you. Of course most rich people see no value in expensive hi fi. So? Is there some logic here that escapes me? No one that I know feels that hi fi is the only thing that matters in their life. What a curious construct to make such a dubious conclusion. This is the only way to get value from expensive hi fi? Your "school of thought" about expenditures applies to everything. I get tremendous pleasure from listening to my fairly (by WBF) expensive Hi Fi. I spent 2 years listening nightly to get me past the death of my wife. Growing up it was the glue behind several lifetime friendships. It is a spiritual journey for me. Speaking only for me and my frame of reference the quality of the gear allows me to be lost in a kind of awake meditation. Transfixed. That's me. You want to judge my 'value"? Good luck
I agree totally . I am first and foremost a lover of music. I truly care very little about the gear and only about what it can do for me and my clients. Music can change my mood, alter my feelings, relax and amuse me and entertain me. I need no one or anything else when I am in that room, sitting in my chair with the lights turned out, that is my reality and my world as it exists in those moments. For someone to tell me what I am and what I want and what I should do and enjoy is absurd. I respect the opinions of others but I do not respect those who think they know what is for others. The generalization of others is the foundation of almost every horrible behavior and it certainly has no place in music.
 
I was expressing a utilitarian approach. The "school of thought" I was referring to is called Hedonic Adaptation or the Hedonic Treadmill.

Sadly I have met people for whom hifi seemed to have overtaken their life, at the expense of their relationships. I had a client whose wife gave him an ultimatum to choose between motor racing (he ran his business to fund a GT team) and her, so he chose motor racing.

People attain various points of obsession and to the extent that an obsession dominates their lives it can dominate their finances. Audiophilia is often referred to as an addiction and the most destructive of addictions, like drugs and gambling, ruin the finances and lives of millions of people.

I met my wife though a shared love of dance. She was a ballet dancer. It's been an important part of our marriage. We have many other cultural interests as well. I don't mix aestheticism with spirituality (being religiously observant).

Someone could be obsessed with hifi, ballet or drugs and spend all their money on it. Our societal values consider some obsessions good, others bad. Personally I'm a believer of everything in moderation. Sometimes I wish I was more obsessive.

Of course hifi is of value to different people at different levels, including me. I'm not judging anyone, whether they only have a pair of headphones (like one of my kids) or have a house full of expensive hifi. Hedonic adaptation postulates that after a point spending more money only has transitory benefit, probably best illustrated by people who constantly "upgrade" cables.

Of course hifi is small change compared to cars. My father used to have an expensive car. He used to go on about how I would inherit it, as if I would enjoy it like he did. When he died, the first thing I did was sell his car (my sister needed the money) and used most of my share to buy a piece of Korean ceramic. It hangs in our kitchen gives me pleasure every day.

Without wishing to be controversial, to me high-end hifi seems to be just another transitory technology. It emerged in the 1950s (thanks to full frequency sound and to a lesser extent stereo). Due to population growth, globalisation and advances in technology (principally the change from physical to streamed data), I would expect to see 2-channel static hifi largely disappear in my lifetime. I mostly listen through ceiling speaker/ights and wireless headphones.
OK I understand what you are saying. You mention obsession. Everything is subject to obsession including work, fitness, cleanliness, sports etc. etc. etc. Nothing special about Hi Fi. We all need some self reflection here. You also imply that spending big money on Hi Fi is due largely to a desire to acquire something rare and expensive. Same would be true of some Ferrari owners and buyers of 20k cult burgundy. The problem is that you have such a bright line you assume that ALL purchasers of such things do it for ego purposes and that they are somehow under developed emotionally. The reality is that in some cases you are right and in some cases you are wrong. Consider that for some the purchase is not the end but a means to a different end. I know Burgundy collectors who just store the stuff like a library to show off. Me? I drink it because I love it and I appreciate everything about it. (Before you give me some "rich guy" brush off know that I wore my dad's hand me downs to high school and I was a dropout before getting my act together.) Same with Hi FI. I really appreciate not only the sound but the true artistry and devotion that a handful of people/companies apply to their craft. I reward that. I live a life and death existence every day. 100% full contact .You? Every evening I allow myself one hour to just sit, listen and feel the music of the universe creep back into me. Holographic, real, soul rejuvenating. The technologies you mention can not and will not ever replace this for me. Please just say that for you it doesn't make sense. I accept that. You are in the 99%
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing