Introduction of my new Antipodes K50 Music Server

abeidrov

VIP Donor
Dec 17, 2015
551
184
298
Moscow
I use simple GISO network isolator between my router and EX + CX combo. The difference in sound is not night and day, but I prefer Antipodes with the isolator in place. Also, very soon I’ll try M12 Gold switch with Sablon cables and Antipodes linear power supply. Maybe it won’t make any difference, but I will be surprised if this is indeed the case.
I respect Mark Jenkins very much and admire his talent, but prefer to check any marketing claims of an audio manufacturer with my own ears.
 

sale

Well-Known Member
Dec 16, 2014
54
2
113
Toronto
When I had the Antipodes EX I sent an email to Antipodes, asking if they thought a USB reclocker would be of benefit. And replied no it would not. Although as I am courious and had found earlier that every USB player port had a positive effect I purchased a Ideon 3R the smallest and SQ was greatly improved. Now I have the Antipodes S40 with etherregen. Again the ER makes the Antipodes even better sounding, So the best is try for yourself.
Placebo effect. Antipodes told you how to setup properly. You plunged significant dollars on Antipodes. Sell Antipodes and connect the cheap Sonicorbiter instead. The ideal setup for Antipodes is:

router---->cat 8---->Antipodes CX------>cat 8------>Antipodes EX or S30-------->cat 8 ---->DAC

The bandwidth of Ethernet cables must be very high. For cat 7 it is 600MHz, for cat 8 2GHz. A high quality cable is at least a grand.
 

sale

Well-Known Member
Dec 16, 2014
54
2
113
Toronto
I’d imagine having an ER before an Antipodes server can be beneficial, but I haven’t confirmed this myself as my ER was already in place before my K30 landed. I don’t see it as being “in the signal path” when used in front of my K30. I also don’t consider the ER to be a filter. It’s just a network switch that has a far better clock in it than you’ll find in any consumer network switch. In addition it can keep leakage current from being passed across its moat.

Having said all that, I probably wouldn’t consider using an ER after a K30 or K50. That would place it in the signal path and I think Antipodes might have that signal as clean as can be. But one can never be sure of such things so always best to listen for oneself.

In my case the ER additionally gave me the ability to run a span of fiber to provide some further isolation. With my former server, an Innuos Zenith, running a span of fiber with an opticalModule upstream and an ER downstream was absolutely worthwhile. I can’t imagine it not being the case with my K30 now as well. The ER convinced me that a good network switch should be included amongst the steps we must take to establish a good foundation for our system, such as room treatment, resonance control, and a power conditioner. Each lessens the harm the real world does to our systems.

I’ve probably mentioned this before but it’s something I encourage everyone to try. Play a song and listen to what happens when you disconnect the Ethernet cable. You will hear degradation even though the music is already stored in a buffer on your server.
"EtherREGEN is an Ethernet switch with filtering apparatus that addresses noise modes that affect audio (and video) quality." Whenever you deal with noise on a digital stream you are doing digital filtering. And filtering, whether digital or analog, will constrain the bandwidth and increase jitter - the essence of Antipodes philosophy. Antipodes claims that once noise enters the midstream and downstream it is too late to deal with it effectively. Instead, one should deal with the noise upstream as much as possible and that's the task of the music server e.g. CX. In order to preserve the bandwidth, no filters in the signal path. Just use very high bandwidth cabling that protects from LF/HF noise.

Bandwidth and speed, that's the essence of Antipodes. They introduced hybrid power supplies in the new line for speed reasons, while still aiming to preserve timbre.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Maceear

sale

Well-Known Member
Dec 16, 2014
54
2
113
Toronto
I use simple GISO network isolator between my router and EX + CX combo. The difference in sound is not night and day, but I prefer Antipodes with the isolator in place. Also, very soon I’ll try M12 Gold switch with Sablon cables and Antipodes linear power supply. Maybe it won’t make any difference, but I will be surprised if this is indeed the case.
I respect Mark Jenkins very much and admire his talent, but prefer to check any marketing claims of an audio manufacturer with my own ears.
EX/CX do have linear power supplies.
 

kennyb123

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2012
487
309
370
Kirkland, WA
EtherREGEN is an Ethernet switch with filtering apparatus that addresses noise modes that affect audio (and video) quality." Whenever you deal with noise on a digital stream you are doing digital filtering. And filtering, whether digital or analog, will constrain the bandwidth and increase jitter - the essence of Antipodes philosophy. Antipodes claims that once noise enters the midstream and downstream it is too late to deal with it effectively. Instead, one should deal with the noise upstream as much as possible and that's the task of the music server e.g. CX. In order to preserve the bandwidth, no filters in the signal path. Just use very high bandwidth cabling that protects from LF/HF noise.

Bandwidth and speed, that's the essence of Antipodes. They introduced hybrid power supplies in the new line for speed reasons, while still aiming to preserve timbre.

What is the source of your quoted text?

Isolation is a different mechanism than filtering. Re-clocking is also different mechanism than filtering.

From Uptone’s website:

“The heart of what makes our switch so unique is use of ACTIVE, HIGH-SPEED, LOW-JITTER DIFFERENTIAL DIGITAL ISOLATOR chips in conjunction with ULTRA-LOW JITTER DIFFERENTIAL RE-CLOCKING FLIP-FLOPS. No other Ethernet switch on the market does this. Implementing this architecture correctly is difficult and costly!”

You wrote: “Instead, one should deal with the noise upstream as much as possible”. Exactly!! That’s why the ER makes perfect sense. It provides isolation and reclocking. Isolation helps to ensure leakage current doesn’t enter the Antipodes server. And reclocking helps to reverse the harm that cheap clocks in consumer gear do to the signal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Maceear

sale

Well-Known Member
Dec 16, 2014
54
2
113
Toronto
What is the source of your quoted text?

Isolation is a different mechanism than filtering. Re-clocking is also different mechanism than filtering.

From Uptone’s website:

“The heart of what makes our switch so unique is use of ACTIVE, HIGH-SPEED, LOW-JITTER DIFFERENTIAL DIGITAL ISOLATOR chips in conjunction with ULTRA-LOW JITTER DIFFERENTIAL RE-CLOCKING FLIP-FLOPS. No other Ethernet switch on the market does this. Implementing this architecture correctly is difficult and costly!”

You wrote: “Instead, one should deal with the noise upstream as much as possible”. Exactly!! That’s why the ER makes perfect sense. It provides isolation and reclocking. Isolation helps to ensure leakage current doesn’t enter the Antipodes server. And reclocking helps to reverse the harm that cheap clocks in consumer gear do to the signal.
Yes, they are different but apparently in ER filtering is side by side with other functions if there are any.

Regarding the claim, Audio Science Review found absolutely no difference between $20 switch and this $640 ER one. Audio Precision instrumentation was used, so no mistake related to an unreliable instrument.

Re dealing with the noise upstream, yes one should use something like Antipodes CX (until Audio Science Review debunks it, of course, just like it debunked ER, which consequently should not be used - I trust Audio Precision measurements).

It is logical that ER must, by default, deal with noise. Why? Because they state jitter reduction as one of their goals, as you pointed out. It is widely known that 3 things affect jitter:

noise
bandwidth
clock

If a device, any device, claims jitter reduction it must deal with all three (usually, they deal with noise and clock only; Antipodes was the first that added bandwidth to this mix).

Now, if we focus on ER noise reduction (they do not talk about bandwidth), Audio Precision measurements measured no reduction at the output terminals of the DAC... Except if Audio Science Review is in the business of lying to the public (if they lie, I am certain they won't last; I think it is highly unlikely they are lying. I am not saying it is impossible, just that it is highly unlikely).
 

kennyb123

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2012
487
309
370
Kirkland, WA
Regarding the claim, Audio Science Review found absolutely no difference between $20 switch and this $640 ER one. Audio Precision instrumentation was used, so no mistake related to an unreliable instrument.

Their test methodology was a joke. Those who have no clue about science (but think they do) are so easy to manipulate. Just include some cool graphs and mention that some nifty test gear was used and clueless people think it’s “science”. Anyone who has a science background knows that the test methodology is the most important part. Even those with common sense get that. I’m sure I that would I sit any of my non-audiophile fiends down to listen to the ER - and then afterwards explain to them how ASR decided test it - they’d laugh out loud.


I actually think what drives some to desire pseudo-science that makes differences go away is the need to avoid feelings of inadequacy or inferiority.

Trusting your own ears comes easy to most of us - so then why do some steadfastly avoid doing this and instead look to the nonsense posted on ASR? I honestly think some of these folks might actually be terrified by what they might learn were they to just listen for themselves. It might turn out that they find themselves incapable of hearing differences. Fortunate for them that ASR posts all these impressive looking graphs that they can hide behind so they don’t have to learn that they themselves or their system doesn’t measure up.

Money is another thing that can bring on feelings of inadequacy in some. Those cool looking charts on ASR come to the rescue for these folks too as the measurements they do there can make one feel that their cheap DAC puts them in the same league as one with a very expensive DAC. The feeling of inadequacy is not just avoided - it’s replaced with a smug arrogance that they were the smart ones who didn’t blow all that extra money on a DAC just to impress their friends.

The greatest irony of all is that it is ASR who behaves like the snake oil salesman by peddling false claims and using showmanship in the form of graphs and charts to mislead gullible fools.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Maceear

kennyb123

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2012
487
309
370
Kirkland, WA
Except if Audio Science Review is in the business of lying to the public (if they lie, I am certain they won't last; I think it is highly unlikely they are lying. I am not saying it is impossible, just that it is highly unlikely).

The internet caters to every constituency. Some prefer getting served up lies repeatedly - so that they themselves can tell more lies. Like the lie that says ASR "debunked" the ER.
 

sale

Well-Known Member
Dec 16, 2014
54
2
113
Toronto
The internet caters to every constituency. Some prefer getting served up lies repeatedly - so that they themselves can tell more lies. Like the lie that says ASR "debunked" the ER.
It is highly unlikely that ASR presents fake data. As the matter of fact I am prepared to bet $10,000 those data, those graphs are not fake. Now, if you are up to it, here is your chance to win $10,000 easily. We'll put each $10,000 in trust with an entity like Escrow or SafeFunds. We'll then pay a 3rd party audio testing engineer to replicate the same test described by ASR. This could maybe cost around $500. If that tester finds a difference of 5dB or more in favor of ER vs $20 switch, the $10000 is yours. Put your money where your mouth is, as simple as that.
 

kennyb123

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2012
487
309
370
Kirkland, WA
It is highly unlikely that ASR presents fake data. As the matter of fact I am prepared to bet $10,000 those data, those graphs are not fake. Now, if you are up to it, here is your chance to win $10,000 easily. We'll put each $10,000 in trust with an entity like Escrow or SafeFunds. We'll then pay a 3rd party audio testing engineer to replicate the same test described by ASR. This could maybe cost around $500. If that tester finds a difference of 5dB or more in favor of ER vs $20 switch, the $10000 is yours. Put your money where your mouth is, as simple as that.
You aren't the sharpest knife in this drawer, are you? Responding as you did, you actually bolstered my arguments. I feel really bad for you.
 

sale

Well-Known Member
Dec 16, 2014
54
2
113
Toronto
You aren't the sharpest knife in this drawer, are you? Responding as you did, you actually bolstered my arguments. I feel really bad for you.
Arguments? What arguments? You threw a few etiquettes at ASR that's all. That's the best I can do for an etiquetter. Now, if you have some arguments, I'm all ears.
 

rdg

New Member
Aug 12, 2020
4
0
1
58
This may be a bit crazy, but I wanted to check out what other Antipodes owners thought. I have been the very happy owner of the K50 for almost 6 weeks. During this period, I was largely using the K50s Ethernet output into Devialet Expert 1000 Pro Dual amps...and very good it was sounding.
A few days ago I had the opportunity to use the AES output direct to the Devialet amps., but was surprised it wasn't sounding better. However, over the last few days it seems to be improving.
So...could the R1i Reclocker Board be starting to burn-in, now that it is being used?
Any thoughts would be very welcome.
 

Lxgreen

Member
Jul 28, 2020
33
22
15
Westlake Village, CA, USA
This may be a bit crazy, but I wanted to check out what other Antipodes owners thought. I have been the very happy owner of the K50 for almost 6 weeks. During this period, I was largely using the K50s Ethernet output into Devialet Expert 1000 Pro Dual amps...and very good it was sounding.
A few days ago I had the opportunity to use the AES output direct to the Devialet amps., but was surprised it wasn't sounding better. However, over the last few days it seems to be improving.
So...could the R1i Reclocker Board be starting to burn-in, now that it is being used?
Any thoughts would be very welcome.
My DAC (Bricasti M12) takes an Ethernet input so I tried that first and then tried the AES/EBU. the Ethernet input was good but I though the AES INPUT was slightly better. I haven’t tied the Ethernet input again after several weeks of playing but the unit continued to improve as it burned in so havnt gone back to Ethernet
 

Sampajanna

Well-Known Member
Apr 1, 2021
232
186
45
Any Statement vs K50 comparisons? Also, curious about bnc vs usb on Mscaler? Subtle difference? Thanks for any advice!
 

rdg

New Member
Aug 12, 2020
4
0
1
58
My DAC (Bricasti M12) takes an Ethernet input so I tried that first and then tried the AES/EBU. the Ethernet input was good but I though the AES INPUT was slightly better. I haven’t tied the Ethernet input again after several weeks of playing but the unit continued to improve as it burned in so havnt gone back to Ethernet
I am finding that the AES/EBU has been burning in over the last two weeks despite the previous use of the ethernet output for some weeks. Indeed, it is getting to a level that is really quite stunning. It makes you wonder, when reading any review, what burn-in period the device has been through.

Really quite mind blowing.
 
It looks like the new 3.1 software will be available for the K50 by the end of July . . . .

Screenshot 2021-07-12 at 09.33.19.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: kennyb123

Lxgreen

Member
Jul 28, 2020
33
22
15
Westlake Village, CA, USA
@Fourlegs the notice say upgrade is for cx ex. Is this for k50 also?
 
@Fourlegs the notice say upgrade is for cx ex. Is this for k50 also?
From what I have read from Antipodes the notice is a three part notice.

1) CX and EX will be able to be upgraded for a relatively short period of time (July and August) with the new Oladra power supplies and they will also be upgraded to the new 3.1 software at the same time. Antipodes are inviting interested owners to register now for the upgrade.

2) All new units (ie K series etc) will be shipped with the new 3.1 software from 19 July onwards.

3) Before the end of July Antipodes will advise how existing devices can be remotely upgraded to the new software, ie no return to factory required. It seems clear this includes existing K series.

This page says a bit more about this.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: kennyb123

Lxgreen

Member
Jul 28, 2020
33
22
15
Westlake Village, CA, USA
I think you are correct. I currently am running 3.0 so I guess will wait for update instructions
 
  • Like
Reactions: WAVE High Fidelity

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing