This is very interesting that you were able to replace the GM tubes. I did not know that you could. I have an older version of the NAT Magma new amps that uses the Eimac 450TH. Do you know if I would be able to use the 450TL instead? They seem to be very similar in spec
Introducing My System
- Thread starter Thundersnow
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Thank you Ron. You have a pretty cool place here. Such a wealth of information.
So I had a chance to listen to Karan Acoustics Master Collection PowerA monos, along with the LineA preamp and separate PSU, on a system comprising of a Melco streamer, an older MSB DAC and Focal Stella Utopia Evo speakers.
God help me, upon returning home, I fired up the system and bathed my ears in the sweet sweet sound of tubes!
I never thought I’d be in the “tube nut” camp, but, I mean, let’s face it, aside from my streamer and speakers, every piece of my equipment has tubes in it.
That is not to say of course that the Karan electronics and Focal didn’t play well — they did, but it was just … lifeless … lacking texture, that sparkle in the highs. Dare I say … too solid state?
After a while my ears acclimated to the sound, but the first impression upon hearing the system was one of disbelief at the absence of tonal richness.
If we were to deconstruct its sound signature, one could not fault it for any individual facet (there is loads of control, instrument separation and punchy bass), but as a whole… it … just … lacked … tubes.
Damn.
God help me, upon returning home, I fired up the system and bathed my ears in the sweet sweet sound of tubes!
I never thought I’d be in the “tube nut” camp, but, I mean, let’s face it, aside from my streamer and speakers, every piece of my equipment has tubes in it.
That is not to say of course that the Karan electronics and Focal didn’t play well — they did, but it was just … lifeless … lacking texture, that sparkle in the highs. Dare I say … too solid state?
After a while my ears acclimated to the sound, but the first impression upon hearing the system was one of disbelief at the absence of tonal richness.
If we were to deconstruct its sound signature, one could not fault it for any individual facet (there is loads of control, instrument separation and punchy bass), but as a whole… it … just … lacked … tubes.
Damn.
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Know how you feel. Every time I go to my friends with his Plinius amp, I feel like you describe…and the rest of his system has tubes! Even just an SS amp is enough for me to go, “no thx”.
Another friend had Nagra 845 monos but sold them because of an unsolvable hum issue. He got an Accuphase A70 to substitute. He says it’s ok but he is missing the Nagras already.
It’s crazy, I always thought, yeah, I like tubes, but it’s not like I couldn’t live with top notch solid state. But after spending a few years now with tube power amps, along with the rest of the gear, I am beginning to think I would have real issues going back to solid state.
It’s not a matter of “camps” and “sound dogma” — to me it’s starting to feel like having to go back to some crazy ”almond butter” substitute instead of enjoying the real thing. I wonder at this point in my audiophile life if I’d be inclined to consider solid state again (without a single tube in the signal path).
Yes, for me it is the relative absence of what your hearing is synthesic that drew me to tubes, and SET more specifically for the amps.
There is some magic in tubes... That seductive sound is free of any harshness and/or edginess. Being exposed to both, SS and tube gear daily, I agree with you. The only thing I miss with tubes is that control in the lowest registers.
I do like combos of Tubes and SS like ARC preamps and PASS class A power amps because there I get the best of both worlds.
I remember visiting a few guys back in the early 2000s with some early works of both, Karan and NAT power amps... I don't remember the sound but I very well remember that emotion and experience I had... NAT PP monos with 845/211 with JM LAB Grand Utopias... breathtaking...
KARANs mono and pre on some Huge Dynaudio DIYs... I was blown away ... a Youngster in his early 20s exposed to some serious gear at that time.
for that tonal richness and lushness, there is nothing that can come close to tubes
I do like combos of Tubes and SS like ARC preamps and PASS class A power amps because there I get the best of both worlds.
I remember visiting a few guys back in the early 2000s with some early works of both, Karan and NAT power amps... I don't remember the sound but I very well remember that emotion and experience I had... NAT PP monos with 845/211 with JM LAB Grand Utopias... breathtaking...
KARANs mono and pre on some Huge Dynaudio DIYs... I was blown away ... a Youngster in his early 20s exposed to some serious gear at that time.
for that tonal richness and lushness, there is nothing that can come close to tubes
This is probably the happiest I’ve been with the sound of my system in a long, long time. It’s been a struggle for years to tame the slightly aggressive overtones of the Accuton drivers and yet retain that magic sparkle and the incredible microdetails that make it so special.
I’ve recently substituted the Jorma Prime cables with NAT’s totl power cords to go along with their speaker cables and the rest of the signal cables.
This is a highly subjective sport mind you and there are no right and wrong answers — only different tastes — when objective qualities are met.
I am where I wanted to be with this system when I fired up the first Marten Mingus Quintet in this room many years ago.
PS Oh and I just realized the drier machine is running in the background of this recording. Let’s call this one “the uncut version”
I’ve recently substituted the Jorma Prime cables with NAT’s totl power cords to go along with their speaker cables and the rest of the signal cables.
This is a highly subjective sport mind you and there are no right and wrong answers — only different tastes — when objective qualities are met.
I am where I wanted to be with this system when I fired up the first Marten Mingus Quintet in this room many years ago.
PS Oh and I just realized the drier machine is running in the background of this recording. Let’s call this one “the uncut version”
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"This is a highly subjective sport mind you and there are no right and wrong answers — only different tastes — when objective qualities are met."
You couldn't be more right, Uros!
You couldn't be more right, Uros!
LAMPIZATOR HORIZON — TO PREAMP OR NOT!
So a quick post to share my latest exploits with this DAC. For the most part I’ve been using my preamp with it, but here we come at an impasse — do we follow the audiophile road or simply focus on the listening to good music?
In essence, us audiophiles — being high brow and quite dogmatic at times — will claim that any preamp (especially of the tube kind) will add “body”, ”sparkle”— or whatever else attribute we may associate with the signal going through usually 20 or more kilos of electronics to reach the power amp. Granted, there is something there to this theory, as, doing some sort of comparative listening we will immediately flock to what we consider a more “audiophile“ sound.
But that will in turn limit or to use a harsher term imprison us into seeking the reinforcement of this decision by listening to the same fragments of the same several test tracks. And this is where the music stops and OCD insanity ensues.
Let‘s consider the alternative for a second.
By going directly from Horizon to the power amps, Horizon being a top notch product, it’s realistic to assume the degradation of the sound through attenuation of the signal is well beyond our ability to discern it. On the upside, there is unquestionably a better signal to noise ratio when using the DAC directly.
So what does this do? While some may argue that it sucks out some life from the music (what I assume is the pleasant aspects of the added distortion from the preamp), it also makes the imaging better (better S/N), it makes my speakers disappear in space (again S/N), and it makes the music less fatiguing (and there is no doubt here in my mind whatsoever).
What have been the effects of this so far? Everyone in my house is comfortable with my music now. I don’t torture the household with the same tracks in my OCD ritual. I actively seek out cool music that feels good to listen to. I play it at a lower volume (again better S/N) and the hi fi system is playing a more inclusive role than it’s ever had in la casa del Thundersnow.
So a quick post to share my latest exploits with this DAC. For the most part I’ve been using my preamp with it, but here we come at an impasse — do we follow the audiophile road or simply focus on the listening to good music?
In essence, us audiophiles — being high brow and quite dogmatic at times — will claim that any preamp (especially of the tube kind) will add “body”, ”sparkle”— or whatever else attribute we may associate with the signal going through usually 20 or more kilos of electronics to reach the power amp. Granted, there is something there to this theory, as, doing some sort of comparative listening we will immediately flock to what we consider a more “audiophile“ sound.
But that will in turn limit or to use a harsher term imprison us into seeking the reinforcement of this decision by listening to the same fragments of the same several test tracks. And this is where the music stops and OCD insanity ensues.
Let‘s consider the alternative for a second.
By going directly from Horizon to the power amps, Horizon being a top notch product, it’s realistic to assume the degradation of the sound through attenuation of the signal is well beyond our ability to discern it. On the upside, there is unquestionably a better signal to noise ratio when using the DAC directly.
So what does this do? While some may argue that it sucks out some life from the music (what I assume is the pleasant aspects of the added distortion from the preamp), it also makes the imaging better (better S/N), it makes my speakers disappear in space (again S/N), and it makes the music less fatiguing (and there is no doubt here in my mind whatsoever).
What have been the effects of this so far? Everyone in my house is comfortable with my music now. I don’t torture the household with the same tracks in my OCD ritual. I actively seek out cool music that feels good to listen to. I play it at a lower volume (again better S/N) and the hi fi system is playing a more inclusive role than it’s ever had in la casa del Thundersnow.
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I use the NAT preamp and as such it is indispensable for my analogue sources. But being that I’m all digital these days as I await the move to my new home, it’s currently “benched” shall we say
I go direct from Horizon as well, for all the same reasons. Couldn’t agree more!
Looks like horizon is 600 Ohms. My monos are 20k ohms. I’m no expert on such details. Sounds great though.
You are right. And yes, they seem to be a very good match. Probably within standards on both ends so all good.
If that were the case, I'd dive right in without a second thought. At the very least, you'd have quenched your curiosity.
the Shunyata’s Everest Turned out to be most surprising & delight in my Setup,
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