Ideon Absolute E and Time Demo

[thomask]

I’ve now tried many DACs. I'm looking for an analogue sounding DAC. MSB is more digital in its sound, not analogue. It is very analytical - lacking soul...artificial, voices are not natural sounding … dCS, Thrax, and EMM sound more analogue. So, MSB is definitely out as a choice of DACs ….

WADAX isn’t in the picture as it’s butt-ugly - looks like a boom box from the 80s... IMO they may engineer good sound, but really missed it in the looks department. Aesthetics matter.

So far out of the DACs I’ve heard the Ideon Absolute E + Time has been the best. But after I listen to the Vitus Masterpiece DAC I’ll make a decision. I’ll make a purchase prior to hearing the Horizon … but later if the Horizon sounds better, I’ll sell whatever I end up with now and get the Horizon. Or there my be something else out by then …

I had listened to Wadax at dealer's showroom side by side with Ideon.

As good as Ideon is, Wadax is in another league.

I confirmed my impression at Pacific Audiofest 2022.

I am not bothered by Wadax appearances but about its high price.

As I get older, I do not want to have second mortage on my house.

But for most folks, Ideon will be more than good enough.

I had listened to Horizon at Pacific Audiofest 2022.

It is hard to tell which is better between Ideon and Horizon.

Ideon sounds more balanced while Horizon sounded more fresh.

But I am prettty sure Horizon is not in the same league as Wadax although most folks will be happy with Horizon.

I had not listened to DCS Apex yet.

But I will have chance today at Seoul Audio Show held in Gangnam, Seoul.

 

[bonzo75]

I’ve now tried many DACs. I'm looking for an analogue sounding DAC. MSB is more digital in its sound, not analogue. It is very analytical - lacking soul...artificial, voices are not natural sounding … dCS, Thrax, and EMM sound more analogue. So, MSB is definitely out as a choice of DACs ….

WADAX isn’t in the picture as it’s butt-ugly - looks like a boom box from the 80s... IMO they may engineer good sound, but really missed it in the looks department. Aesthetics matter.

So far out of the DACs I’ve heard the Ideon Absolute E + Time has been the best. But after I listen to the Vitus Masterpiece DAC I’ll make a decision. I’ll make a purchase prior to hearing the Horizon … but later if the Horizon sounds better, I’ll sell whatever I end up with now and get the Horizon. Or there my be something else out by then …

the U.K. Lampi distro just outside London also is the Ideon distro, so he usually has both Lampi and Ideon so those interested can organise a visit

 

[Audire]

I had listened to Wadax at dealer's showroom side by side with Ideon.

As good as Ideon is, Wadax is in another league.

I confirmed my impression at Pacific Audiofest 2022.

I am not bothered by Wadax appearances but about its high price.

As I get older, I do not want to have second mortage on my house.

But for most folks, Ideon will be more than good enough.

I had listened to Horizon at Pacific Audiofest 2022.

It is hard to tell which is better between Ideon and Horizon.

Ideon sounds more balanced while Horizon sounded more fresh.

But I am prettty sure Horizon is not in the same league as Wadax although most folks will be happy with Horizon.

I had not listened to DCS Apex yet.

But I will have chance today at Seoul Audio Show held in Gangnam, Seoul.

Thanks. Different DACs sound different in various systems. That’s one reason why I’m hearing all these DACs in my system. I’m glad that you had a pleasant experience with WADAX and Ideon, but they both will sound different in another system.

IMO, you can’t get better than analogue sound. Whichever DAC reaches that zenith of reproduction in my system is the one I will purchase. And for as much money as we are spending for these things they should look good doing what they do. And yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Verdier]

Unfortunately, the logistics couldn’t be worked out to get the Horizon in for a demo. But I have a friend thinking of purchasing one after he hears it at an upcoming show. If he purchases I’ll hear it in my system then.

I have Vitus Masterpiece DAC coming in. I’ll listen to it. It should be great synergy with our Vitus mono amps, Masterpiece Line Stage and Transport. I’ll make a decision then.

On the Vitus Masterpiece DAC the sample rates concern me, 384kHz + DSD128. However, as I have kept investigating, many say that higher sample rates - like 512+ - may distort the sound. Maybe this is one reason why I didn’t enjoy the MSB Select II? Anyway we shall see in about a month or two.

Hi Joe, you mention the Vitus transport often here on wbf. I am very interested in how you came to decide for this transport - so already quite exactly what thoughts or better said strands of thought you have followed.

There are still a certain amount of different top drives from Esoteric, CHP, CEC, Jadis, JMF and quite a few more. The question is how you rank them, or better yet, why you rank them that way. I'm going to assume that the big drives have very elaborate mechanics, albeit in very different designs and with different base drive - but probably mostly very, very good. In my opinion, the connection to the DAC is likely to be one of the sticking points that makes a comprehensible difference between the drives.

I would now like to know what was the specific point for you to decide for a Vitus Transport.

 

[Audire]

Hi Joe, you mention the Vitus transport often here on wbf. I am very interested in how you came to decide for this transport - so already quite exactly what thoughts or better said strands of thought you have followed.

There are still a certain amount of different top drives from Esoteric, CHP, CEC, Jadis, JMF and quite a few more. The question is how you rank them, or better yet, why you rank them that way. I'm going to assume that the big drives have very elaborate mechanics, albeit in very different designs and with different base drive - but probably mostly very, very good. In my opinion, the connection to the DAC is likely to be one of the sticking points that makes a comprehensible difference between the drives.

I would now like to know what was the specific point for you to decide for a Vitus Transport.

Sorry for my delay in responding. After trying many transports it came down to two: Kalista DreamPlay X and the Vitus Masterpiece. I enjoy the sound of Vitus components. The music that comes from their amps and line stages is so very natural, stunningly real life. I’m also an advocate of system synergy. So for me it just seems logical to purchase the Vitus Masterpiece Transport.

 

[Gregm]

Here's an (unusual / unexpected) anecdotal discovery:

I was listening to music early last night when friends came over. I powered down the system and I forgot to switch off the Epsilon which remained on all night.
I noticed it this morning when I entered the room, breakfast tea in hand. No worries, I switched on the amps and set out to listen to some music (Dvorak string quartet 22)...

...aaand I was listening to a different system!!!
All the hallmarks of my system were there, but there was now more definition up top, more clarity and energy in the bottom -- as if I had added an extra bottom octave to the FR and a few on top! More sense of space, definition ("you are there" effect). I can discern the cellos vs 2xbass playing, and my room hasn't gotten any bigger overnight!

Takeaway: the Epsilon is an excellent device, no doubt, but in order to experience its full potential you have to leave it on for at least 20 hrs!

A great Sunday to all!

 

[Gregm]

Sorry to bore you with this again, but I just adjusted my speaker placement (left spkr, 1mm back)... and I got rid of a resonance @ 110Hz.

I knew the Epsilon was a good piece if kit, after all I had short-listed it along with the Wadax (way out of my financial capabilities), but now I understand why people wax poetic about it!

I just had to share.
It's a rare blessing indeed to be able to listen to Gulda play Mozart (Abaddo, Vienna Philharmonic) in our home...
Be well, be happy

 

[charles1dad]

Here's an (unusual / unexpected) anecdotal discovery:

I was listening to music early last night when friends came over. I powered down the system and I forgot to switch off the Epsilon which remained on all night.
I noticed it this morning when I entered the room, breakfast tea in hand. No worries, I switched on the amps and set out to listen to some music (Dvorak string quartet 22)...

...aaand I was listening to a different system!!!
All the hallmarks of my system were there, but there was now more definition up top, more clarity and energy in the bottom -- as if I had added an extra bottom octave to the FR and a few on top! More sense of space, definition ("you are there" effect). I can discern the cellos vs 2xbass playing, and my room hasn't gotten any bigger overnight!

Takeaway: the Epsilon is an excellent device, no doubt, but in order to experience its full potential you have to leave it on for at least 20 hrs!

A great Sunday to all!

Not a surprising positive outcome. This is a solid state DAC and will not draw much AC electricity power at all (Fractions of a kilowatt). You could leave it on 24/7 and have very little if any noticeable difference in the monthly electrical bill.
Charles

 

[Gregm]

Not a surprising positive outcome. This is a solid state DAC and will not draw much AC electricity power at all (Fractions of a kilowatt). You could leave it on 24/7 and have very little if any noticeable difference in the monthly electrical bill.
Charles

Makes sense - but won't I be reducing the caps' usable life? (and there are about 100 of those in the device!)

 

[charles1dad]

Makes sense - but won't I be reducing the caps' usable life? (and there are about 100 of those in the device!)

I don’t know enough about your specific component to provide a definitive answer. However, generally speaking, low power drawing transistor source components can be left on 24/7 without problems. Often this is encouraged/recommended by the manufacturers.
Charles

 

[facten]

However, generally speaking, low power drawing transistor source components can be left on 24/7 without problems. Often this is encouraged/recommended by the manufacturers

Agree Charles, in my case it has been recommended by Neodio , Mojo Audio, and Blue Circle relative to digital components

 

[caesar]

the MSB Select II is a 'bit perfect' dac. it does not up-sample. unless you are playing a 512+ dsd source, it won't be going there. so if you did not enjoy the MSB Select II it was not due to any unwanted upsampling of all inputs. and if you did not enjoy it maybe some aspect of the set-up was not ideal? loved my time with it. YMMV....of course.

Hey Mike ,

I get it you like the sound of the MSB in your system. And yes, I heard MSB in systems I’m familiar with at friends - well set up! I think it’s flatter than a $1.69 vpi player. And sterile and hifi as hell in 80 percent of systems that don’t have natural tone and great dynamics. In the latter 20 percent of systems MSBis sublime! So I get the passion.

But more importantly, why assume others get the same emotional reaction to the msb as you? Dictating and / or assuming what sound others should enjoy just poisons the spirit of the community and is why so many despise the “audio journalists” and are turned off by audio forums.

Just look at what happened to The Analytical Sound using the same approach - their brand has been violated and shattered ... Magico is the best; Wilson is a Time Machine....

But when music lovers - not audiophiles - listen to the gear the push, they are left shaking their heads. There are over 300,000 millionaires alone in NYC, many go to music events and love them and find the state of flow, but very few get musical satisfaction or want that hyped up hifi. ). And also why so many people despise the audio “experts” who preach their approach as the “truth “.

Nothing personal, of course

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hey Mike ,

I get it you like

liked

the sound of the MSB in your system. And yes, I heard MSB in systems I’m familiar with at friends - well set up! I think it’s flatter than a $1.69 vpi player.

which particular sources did you directly compare to the MSB Select II with the Taiko Extreme server? or were you listening to a 'system' performance?

And sterile and hifi as hell in 80 percent of systems that don’t have natural tone and great dynamics. In the latter 20 percent of systems MSBis sublime! So I get the passion.

of course, my post from 2-3 weeks ago was about my now 18 month old memory of the MSB. in Jan 22' i acquired the Wadax and have moved on.

but i still appreciate the MSB and would recommend it highly.

But more importantly, why assume others get the same emotional reaction to the msb as you?

i compared my MSB experience in my system to the dac's preceding it; the Aqua Formula, the Nagra HD Dac, the Lampizator GG1.5 and the Trinity dac. none chopped liver. and at 3 different Audio Shows prior to my purchase, i did serious listening and comparing of other dacs that i could access. lots and lots of interested listening prior to my purchase.

i also compared the MSB to my turntables and Studer tape. never heard what you are describing. you have written a number of times about your 2 cents about the MSB. i respect that but don't agree. i did my work and have my opinions.

Dictating and / or assuming what sound others should enjoy just poisons the spirit of the community and is why so many despise the “audio journalists” and are turned off by audio forums.

yada, yada, yada.

Just look at what happened to The Analytical Sound using the same approach - their brand has been violated and shattered ... Magico is the best; Wilson is a Time Machine....

more...yada, yada, yada.

But when music lovers - not audiophiles - listen to the gear the push, they are left shaking their heads. There are over 300,000 millionaires alone in NYC, many go to music events and love them and find the state of flow, but very few get musical satisfaction or want that hyped up hifi. ). And also why so many people despise the audio “experts” who preach their approach as the “truth “.

there is no truth/proof. it's subjective opinions. data points. sometimes lots of data points. hyperbole? of course. normal. sometimes guilty, sometimes not. part of passion. a hobby.

despise? much more some needing a handy target for rambling rants.

Nothing personal, of course

why would i take it personal?

thank you for....the.....i'm not sure what?

 

[Ron Resnick]

the MSB Select II is a 'bit perfect' dac. it does not up-sample. unless you are playing a 512+ dsd source, it won't be going there. so if you did not enjoy the MSB Select II it was not due to any unwanted upsampling of all inputs. and if you did not enjoy it maybe some aspect of the set-up was not ideal? loved my time with it. YMMV....of course.

But more importantly, why assume others get the same emotional reaction to the msb as you? Dictating and / or assuming what sound others should enjoy just poisons the spirit of the community and is why so many despise the “audio journalists” and are turned off by audio forums.

Mike speculating and asking "if some aspect of the set-up that was not ideal" cannot fairly be accused of "dictating and / or assuming what sound others should enjoy."

 

[Audire]

liked

which particular sources did you directly compare to the MSB Select II with the Taiko Extreme server? or were you listening to a 'system' performance?

of course, my post from 2-3 weeks ago was about my now 18 month old memory of the MSB. in Jan 22' i acquired the Wadax and have moved on.

but i still appreciate the MSB and would recommend it highly.

i compared my MSB experience in my system to the dac's preceding it; the Aqua Formula, the Nagra HD Dac, the Lampizator GG1.5 and the Trinity dac. none chopped liver. and at 3 different Audio Shows prior to my purchase, i did serious listening and comparing of other dacs that i could access. lots and lots of interested listening prior to my purchase.

i also compared the MSB to my turntables and Studer tape. never heard what you are describing. you have written a number of times about your 2 cents about the MSB. i respect that but don't agree. i did my work and have my opinions.

yada, yada, yada.

more...yada, yada, yada.

there is no truth/proof. it's subjective opinions. data points. sometimes lots of data points. hyperbole? of course. normal. sometimes guilty, sometimes not. part of passion. a hobby.

despise? much more some needing a handy target for rambling rants.

why would i take it personal?

thank you for....the.....i'm not sure what?

IMO, the MSB Select II isn’t anywhere near the the quality of the reproduction of the Ideon Absolute + Time. While I have a new DAC incoming, both the MSB Select II and the Ideon Absolute are excellent but IMO nothing compared to the Vitus MP DAC. At this time, nothing IMO is comparable. Hearing is believing.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

IMO, the MSB Select II isn’t anywhere near the the quality of the reproduction of the Ideon Absolute + Time. While I have a new DAC incoming, both the MSB Select II and the Ideon Absolute are excellent but IMO nothing compared to the Vitus MP DAC. At this time, nothing IMO is comparable. Hearing is believing.

joe,

have you directly compared those 3 dacs side by side?

thanks,

Mike

 

[Audire]

joe,

have you directly compared those 3 dacs side by side?

thanks,

Mike

Yes, I have and I purchased the Vitus MP which is incoming (maybe three weeks out).

I’ve demoed many DACs in the last few months —->>> Aqua HiFi Formula xHD, CH Precision C1.2, dCS Vivaldi, EMM DA2V2 [which I presently own], Ideon Absolute E + Time, Kalista DreamPlayX + DAC, MSB Select II, MSB Ref., Playback Designs MPD-8, Thrax Libra, etc. and we were immediately memorized by the analogue sound of the Vitus MP DAC!

While others may disagree with our selection, to us we have purchased the most musical DAC available. The coming months will tell the rest of the story!

 

[PYP]

Yes, I have and I purchased the Vitus MP which is incoming (maybe three weeks out).

While others may disagree with our selection, to us we have purchased the most musical DAC available. The coming months will tell the rest of the story!

Enjoyed this review of the Vitus MP DAC: https://hifiplus.com/articles/vitus-mp-201-masterpiece-d-a-converter/

Any component that allows one to make new connections to music and hear the context of the music from a new perspective is a great piece of gear.

 

[Verdier]

Yes, I have and I purchased the Vitus MP which is incoming (maybe three weeks out).

I’ve demoed many DACs in the last few months —->>> Aqua HiFi Formula xHD, CH Precision C1.2, dCS Vivaldi, EMM DA2V2 [which I presently own], Ideon Absolute E + Time, Kalista DreamPlayX + DAC, MSB Select II, MSB Ref., Playback Designs MPD-8, Thrax Libra, etc. and we were immediately memorized by the analogue sound of the Vitus MP DAC!

While others may disagree with our selection, to us we have purchased the most musical DAC available. The coming months will tell the rest of the story!

Interesting. But: Too bad, too bad - you didn't listen to Aries Cerat Dac ....

Is it possible that it is not so much an absolute sound quality as a synergy with the rest of the Vitus devices?

Honestly, I expected that you (if you were listening to a Vitus Dac) would choose Vitus - your reasoning for the Vitus drive had (for me) an appropriate tone and somewhere you had also mentioned, according to my memory, that you assume a system synergy.

Regardless, have fun with it!

 

[Audire]

Interesting. But: Too bad, too bad - you didn't listen to Aries Cerat Dac ....

Is it possible that it is not so much an absolute sound quality as a synergy with the rest of the Vitus devices?

Honestly, I expected that you (if you were listening to a Vitus Dac) would choose Vitus - your reasoning for the Vitus drive had (for me) an appropriate tone and somewhere you had also mentioned, according to my memory, that you assume a system synergy.

Regardless, have fun with it!

There’s a few other DACs I wished I could have demoed such as the Horizon and the WADAX. But we didn't have a dealer nearby…. At this level they are all very good.