I said I would never buy another Turntable...Argh !!!

[ALF]

Now I can say I understand your tiresome of this sir . Ching Cheng's have some naughty behaviors but they serve my listening objectives better than whatever I had before. A great gift from a friend.
No more fishing for me too. I am going bear hunting now .

Tang

Yep, me too!!

Cheers!
ALF

 

[Stacore]

A humble 2c of my personal experience. I'm by no means an expert here.

When constructing my DIY phono stage I packed the line input with all kinds of engineering gadgets: high quality, multistage CMR chokes, big boutique cap, varistors, HV arresters etc. Then motivated by Romy the Cat and people from his forum (there is a huge thread dedicated to power lines) I took the pains and unsoldered all that. I never looked back. It was like if some veil was removed from the sound, very similar to what proper vibration isolation does. Greater dynamical contrast, better articulation and sounds separation, more direct connection to the sound etc. And all that happened with dedicated power lines and vibration isolation already installed.

Cheers,

 

[bazelio]

Targeting the ground is very specific advice! As you mentioned there are too many situational variables, how to deal with it is case by case and let’s face it there are hopeless situations too.

david

I also find this to be very general / unspecific advice, and would like to hear more details. Perhaps it'd be helpful to describe example cases where "targeting the ground" has helped, and then describe the methods employed in this targeting. What are the variables you speak of?

I actually don't think there are many options. "Improving the ground connection", if even possible, probably isn't going to be significant in most situations, save for unusually bad or outdated wiring. We have radical options like two phase power which will employ a center tapped isolation transformer and can definitely have noise cancellation effects. But then we've also apparently condemned transformer based power delivery for audio already anyhow. So, what's left to do? Chassis ground currents are going to exist, and they're going to be noisy to some degree. Audiophile grounding blocks? LOL. These probably do little more than introduce their own flavor to the noise, if that.

Regarding Ching Chengs, I am in the camp who believes they're not neutral. Subdued, yes. Neutral, no. IMO. I find them a bit reserved in the treble, a bit lacking in dynamics, but generally inoffensive. Can either of us say conclusively whether it's the Changs or the more dynamic, more alive cable that is "colored"? I don't know. But I favor my DIY cable that is still "bargain" priced in audiophile terms at $150, because it sounds more like music to me. That said, a $20 cable which can succeed in not sucking the air out of a system is actually quite impressive. And the Changs do well there for sure. For headphone amps, or simpler office systems, etc... I use and like the Changs.

 

[tima]

IMHO one key point in power devices is that they must absorb the noise generate by equipment before it reaches other equipment or gets reflected in the device. As such, rules are equipment dependent - and perhaps in such a way that only experience can give us some hints, particularly as there are no unique solutions.

I understand your first sentence. And to that end I'm using a Shunyata Triton - a device with a variety of in-built noise supression/absorbtion mechanisms that perhaps contribute to coloration. It serves as power distributor to my front-end off a dedicated 20A line. If we accept that components put noise back onto the wire, and, left untreated, into other components, this seems like a damned-if-you-do-and-damned-if-you-don't scenario.

 

[ddk]

I understand your first sentence. And to that end I'm using a Shunyata Triton - a device with a variety of in-built noise supression/absorbtion mechanisms that perhaps contribute to coloration. It serves as power distributor to my front-end off a dedicated 20A line. If we accept that components put noise back onto the wire, and, left untreated, into other components, this seems like a damned-if-you-do-and-damned-if-you-don't scenario.

Not really, since you already own the Shunyata just try with and without and see which you prefer but in case of Triton or similar you must unplug them because they do have a residual effect on the lines.

 

[ddk]

Steve,
Maybe you should move the power discussions to its own thread because it seems to be getting deeper & further OT.

david

 

[bonzo75]

Steve,
Maybe you should move the power discussions to its own thread because it seems to be getting deeper & further OT.

david

it is about your turntable and your power philosophy We promise to keep it on point by not bringing in direct drive, DSP, and computer streamers

 

[ddk]

it is about your turntable and your power philosophy We promise to keep it on point by not bringing in direct drive, DSP, and computer streamers

It’s Chris’s thread not mine and I think the power conversation deserves its own thread as the conversation will get deeper.
david

 

[bonzo75]

Was just kidding. Yes it should be moved, I agree

 

[PeterA]

Here are a couple more comments about Chris's AS2000. I put my ear right up against the motor and heard NOTHING, not even a slight rush from the sound of the belt, which is non stretchy. I also did not hear any noise from the compressor. I think the air pressure or film that supports the massive platter is very low and thin and constant, so the compressor is not working very hard.

I also can reiterate that the fit and finish of this table is outstanding. In that sense it kind of reminds me of my SME. The design appears to be very purposeful, and deliberate. It is very busy looking with the four tonearms, but I suppose any four arm solution would. Chris is planning to get David's Nothing Rack when he moves to his new house. That is around 800 lbs plus the 500 or so lbs of the table. He has reinforced the floor area to support this massive load.

I was impressed with both the execution and sound of the table, though I could not really separate the contribution of the table per se given the different arm/cart/phono combinations in the unfamiliar system. Whatever the combination, it always had a liveliness and convincingly natural sound. There were too many counters clicking for each cartridge for me to count. Despite the simplistic look of the design and lack of tweaks in the system, Chris has a lot of stuff going on with all of the cartridges, cables, alignment jigs, accessories, and empty SME amr boxes all over the place. I thought Tang's system is a vinyl laboratory. Chris' has just as many experiments going on, and there seems to be a bit more "madness" going on because it is a sort of hidden basement and not a functioning office, LOL. This will surely change in the new place.

 

[audioquattr]

Here are a couple more comments about Chris's AS2000. I put my ear right up against the motor and heard NOTHING, not even a slight rush from the sound of the belt, which is non stretchy. I also did not hear any noise from the compressor. I think the air pressure or film that supports the massive platter is very low and thin and constant, so the compressor is not working very hard.

I also can reiterate that the fit and finish of this table is outstanding. In that sense it kind of reminds me of my SME. The design appears to be very purposeful, and deliberate. It is very busy looking with the four tonearms, but I suppose any four arm solution would. Chris is planning to get David's Nothing Rack when he moves to his new house. That is around 800 lbs plus the 500 or so lbs of the table. He has reinforced the floor area to support this massive load.

I was impressed with both the execution and sound of the table, though I could not really separate the contribution of the table per se given the different arm/cart/phono combinations in the unfamiliar system. Whatever the combination, it always had a liveliness and convincingly natural sound. There were too many counters clicking for each cartridge for me to count. Despite the simplistic look of the design and lack of tweaks in the system, Chris has a lot of stuff going on with all of the cartridges, cables, alignment jigs, accessories, and empty SME amr boxes all over the place. I thought Tang's system is a vinyl laboratory. Chris' has just as many experiments going on, and there seems to be a bit more "madness" going on because it is a sort of hidden basement and not a functioning office, LOL. This will surely change in the new place.

Good move, back on track this topic .
And good reports btw.
Haven't you made some nice "madness" pics in the "hidden basement" ?

 

[PeterA]

Good move, back on track this topic .
And good reports btw.
Haven't you made some nice "madness" pics in the "hidden basement" ?

No, in fact, now that I think about it, I should have taken pictures. I usually do. I did snap an LP album cover which he played for me and I have subsequently bought because that is so much easier than writing the title down. Yeah, not taking photos was a mistake. I guess I was too busy having fun listening with Chris and simply basking in the "natural" sound that David introduced to the system. Steve needs to add a smiley face that conjures up the notion of satisfaction with the natural sound of music.

 

[audioquattr]

... I guess I was too busy having fun listening with Chris and simply basking in the "natural" sound that David introduced to the system. Steve needs to add a smiley face that conjures up the notion of satisfaction with the natural sound of music.

Well that's the most important thing, having fun with this hobby, while making a
spontaneous pitstop during your trip.

 

[rockitman]

Thanks Peter for bringing the thread back from Ching Cheng ....lol

 

[microstrip]

(...) I guess I was too busy having fun listening with Chris and simply basking in the "natural" sound that David introduced to the system. Steve needs to add a smiley face that conjures up the notion of satisfaction with the natural sound of music.

Peter,

Besides the AS2000 , SME 3012R and Ching Chengs , what other "natural" elements were added to Chris system? Does he still use the Odin's?

 

[rockitman]

Does he still use the Odin's?

Yes...Odin interconnect and PC’s...using limited edition NCF Furutech Power Cables on amps, Odin PC’s on main pre, Allnic and Lamm phono’s.

 

[PeterA]

Peter,

Besides the AS2000 , SME 3012R and Ching Chengs , what other "natural" elements were added to Chris system? Does he still use the Odin's?

Francisco, This is more a question for Chris and for David. When I write that David introduced a "natural" sound to the system, it is not just what he added, it may also be what he subtracted. And, of course, much of the natural sound I heard was a direct result of Chris' work to better position the listening seat and speakers. I'm just sharing my impression of what I heard and using the words that come to mind. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Tango]

Yes...Odin interconnect and PC’s...using limited edition NCF Furutech Power Cables on amps, Odin PC’s on main pre, Allnic and Lamm phono’s.

Hi Christian,

May I ask about the relocation of your system. Would you have a dedicated listening room or would you be listening in an open living room. Are you eyeing on a new pair of speakers? Maybe another "...Argh!" thread in the future?

I am a fan and just being very nosy here .

Tang

 

[rockitman]

Hi Christian,

May I ask about the relocation of your system. Would you have a dedicated listening room or would you be listening in an open living room. Are you eyeing on a new pair of speakers? Maybe another "...Argh!" thread in the future?

I am a fan and just being very nosy here .

Tang

The speakers will be in between the shaded French door and the unshaded side windows. Cathedral Ceiling height about 23 feet. This is my great room. Hoping things sound good there....stereo eqipement racks off the right side. No slap echo issues with well insulated wood post and beam construction.

 

[Tango]

The speakers will be in between the shaded French door and the unshaded side windows. Cathedral Ceiling height about 23 feet. This is my great room. Hoping things sound good there....stereo eqipement racks off the right side. No slap echo issues with well insulated wood post and beam construction. View attachment 45571 View attachment 45572

WoW! Just WoW!
I am jealous now.

See..guys. If I werent nosy, we would not get to see his beautiful place .

Tang