Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
But you are introducing a total unknown to the equation and asking me for specs on a microinverter that is proprietary to the manufacturer.
I said I would never buy another Turntable...Argh !!!
- Thread starter rockitman
- Start date
The model, topology and general characteristics of your solar system are confidential information?
Targeting the ground is very specific advice! As you mentioned there are too many situational variables, how to deal with it is case by case and let’s face it there are hopeless situations too.
david
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Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
You can go online and search. Perhaps you’ll find it. I have no interest or desire to do such
Funny, I had the opposite happen with my Torus. And a dealer and I compared it to a simple $75 Isobar Tripp Lite strip that used to get raves on Audioasylum as well as a $1k Niagra strip.
Re: Ching Chengs on conditioners
I found my WyWires cords superior to the Ching Chengs. They are relatively inexpensive as well. Here is a good friend's summary of the Ching Chengs vs several cords (213Cobra)- note, he uses Zu loudspeakers. Phil is very articulate, and I forwarded his thoughts to David a long time ago:
This first time I listened to the Ching Cheng, I compared to Zu Birth. Birth is what Zu ships with Definitions for the sub amp. It is now their entry power cord. At that time I gave an edge to CC for some traits, Zu Birth for others. Overall, Birth was preferred but CC was remarkable for not having any of the dimension-sucking shrinkage of most "stock" power cords shipped with gear, and for being musically-legit at $20.
This time I compared the CC, your WyWires PC, and Zu Event Mk2, their top PC today. Having one of each, I listened to them in the role as main feed to the Panamax 5500 isolation xformer/pwr conditioner. I also put them each in the role of power feed to both of my Melody tube preamps, which as you know have very hefty linear power supplies. The differences and rankings did not change with role. Nor did they change between using each as main feed to the Panamax 5500 or your TrippLite strip or a Wiremold strip. All of the differences were sharpest and easiest to identify via the Panamax. I also listened with 845 SET, Quad II tube amps and M2Tech Class D. Power ranges from 12w to ~300w/ch.
In this comparison and against the WyWires and Zu Event II, the Ching Cheng is a distant 3rd, every time. It's not close to me, but it is close enough that people with less experience or less ear-brain acuity might think it's plenty good and virtually SQ-adjacent.
#1/ Zu Event: It's really the first time I've made a serious effort to compare Event II to anything other than older Zu PCs. All of the intended design objectives Sean had are present and accounted for. With Event II, the system is more transparent, has faster transient speed, everything is harmonically complete. Tone density is authentic. Body responds to pacing with spontaneous foot tapping. It's just the most engaging, involving sound of the three. Fine details and discrete events register easily. Spatially, with the Zu, the soundstage has the most apparent depth. Placements are more easily discerned and segregated in space.
#2/ WyWires: This is a very credible cable on its own. Until the Zu serves as contrast it seems fine but when it goes up against the Zu, its colorations stand out. The WW does give a slightly wider soundstage than the Zu, but less depth. It obscures some fine details that make themselves immediately apparent with the Zu. There's less overall space and placements as well as transient events are less precise. This cord isn't the foot-tapper the Zu is. You have to think about starting that. If a recording or instrument has some harshness to it, the WW shaves it a bit. The overall sound is sanded smoother-than-real, which does make it a more forgiving cord for mediocre recordings, in the same way Zu's Mission ICs are smoother than the more ruthless Event. The system with all amps was less dynamic and bursty than with Zu. Bass isn't deeper, but it's a little fatter with less definition on the leading pluck or drum tap. Overall, the WW is a euphonic PC. It doesn't introduce anything bothersome. Relative to the Zu Event II, the WW commits sins of omission but none of commission.
3/ Ching Cheng: At $20 it's a buy. And it is better than a bunch of expensive but shit-sounding power cords. But it is what it is. In this trial, with all amps and all configurations, the CC just gives less of everything you can name. Spatially everything is flatter and a bit narrower. Still pretty good standalone but it cannot hang with the other two PCs in any way. Placements and events precision erodes. Dynamics are relatively truncated. Tone density thins. Instruments are harmonically incomplete though not egregiously dulled. Engagement and involvement recedes. Overall authenticity is less convincing. I couldn't find any advantage over the others, nor any trait in which the CC equals the WW or Zu. Everything I played and played through was simply less interesting to hear with the CC in place. I did add a random stock gear PC to the mix -- the Ching Cheng is better than that in every way. Compared to a stock cord, CC is tonally richer and has more shove. And it's smooth and where it has colorations they are euphonic too, adding warmth and thickening bass a bit.
I found my WyWires cords superior to the Ching Chengs. They are relatively inexpensive as well. Here is a good friend's summary of the Ching Chengs vs several cords (213Cobra)- note, he uses Zu loudspeakers. Phil is very articulate, and I forwarded his thoughts to David a long time ago:
This first time I listened to the Ching Cheng, I compared to Zu Birth. Birth is what Zu ships with Definitions for the sub amp. It is now their entry power cord. At that time I gave an edge to CC for some traits, Zu Birth for others. Overall, Birth was preferred but CC was remarkable for not having any of the dimension-sucking shrinkage of most "stock" power cords shipped with gear, and for being musically-legit at $20.
This time I compared the CC, your WyWires PC, and Zu Event Mk2, their top PC today. Having one of each, I listened to them in the role as main feed to the Panamax 5500 isolation xformer/pwr conditioner. I also put them each in the role of power feed to both of my Melody tube preamps, which as you know have very hefty linear power supplies. The differences and rankings did not change with role. Nor did they change between using each as main feed to the Panamax 5500 or your TrippLite strip or a Wiremold strip. All of the differences were sharpest and easiest to identify via the Panamax. I also listened with 845 SET, Quad II tube amps and M2Tech Class D. Power ranges from 12w to ~300w/ch.
In this comparison and against the WyWires and Zu Event II, the Ching Cheng is a distant 3rd, every time. It's not close to me, but it is close enough that people with less experience or less ear-brain acuity might think it's plenty good and virtually SQ-adjacent.
#1/ Zu Event: It's really the first time I've made a serious effort to compare Event II to anything other than older Zu PCs. All of the intended design objectives Sean had are present and accounted for. With Event II, the system is more transparent, has faster transient speed, everything is harmonically complete. Tone density is authentic. Body responds to pacing with spontaneous foot tapping. It's just the most engaging, involving sound of the three. Fine details and discrete events register easily. Spatially, with the Zu, the soundstage has the most apparent depth. Placements are more easily discerned and segregated in space.
#2/ WyWires: This is a very credible cable on its own. Until the Zu serves as contrast it seems fine but when it goes up against the Zu, its colorations stand out. The WW does give a slightly wider soundstage than the Zu, but less depth. It obscures some fine details that make themselves immediately apparent with the Zu. There's less overall space and placements as well as transient events are less precise. This cord isn't the foot-tapper the Zu is. You have to think about starting that. If a recording or instrument has some harshness to it, the WW shaves it a bit. The overall sound is sanded smoother-than-real, which does make it a more forgiving cord for mediocre recordings, in the same way Zu's Mission ICs are smoother than the more ruthless Event. The system with all amps was less dynamic and bursty than with Zu. Bass isn't deeper, but it's a little fatter with less definition on the leading pluck or drum tap. Overall, the WW is a euphonic PC. It doesn't introduce anything bothersome. Relative to the Zu Event II, the WW commits sins of omission but none of commission.
3/ Ching Cheng: At $20 it's a buy. And it is better than a bunch of expensive but shit-sounding power cords. But it is what it is. In this trial, with all amps and all configurations, the CC just gives less of everything you can name. Spatially everything is flatter and a bit narrower. Still pretty good standalone but it cannot hang with the other two PCs in any way. Placements and events precision erodes. Dynamics are relatively truncated. Tone density thins. Instruments are harmonically incomplete though not egregiously dulled. Engagement and involvement recedes. Overall authenticity is less convincing. I couldn't find any advantage over the others, nor any trait in which the CC equals the WW or Zu. Everything I played and played through was simply less interesting to hear with the CC in place. I did add a random stock gear PC to the mix -- the Ching Cheng is better than that in every way. Compared to a stock cord, CC is tonally richer and has more shove. And it's smooth and where it has colorations they are euphonic too, adding warmth and thickening bass a bit.
to conclude, best to do your own comparisons in your own house/system - to say anything else to me doesn't make sense
Steve,
Please note I was asking David about his post, I know you have no details on it - I have no doubts on your opinion concerning your system.
IMHO staying in ignorance and worship does not seem to be one of the objectives of WBF. I am here to learn and share my points, some times bridging technology with others subjective experience. Although science has limitations explaining sound reproduction, the laws of electromagnetism must be obeyed.
So many questions, so little time....
Let's put it this way micro...Steve and I heard no difference in our systems with the addition of solar power. Believe it or not, that's up to you.
Don't understand that conclusion, then go and do the research yourself as to why this is possible.
Meanwhile, Steve and I will continue to enjoy our systems...and the music,
I would happily do it if you gave me information enough to identify it. I am sure Sun Power would supply all the information we need - we need the specifications, not how do they do it. I doubt that can sell their products to most non residential customers without supplying it.
I'm not trying to promote CC or any other cord for that matter but for clarification one can interpret your friend's accounts in different ways. IME CC is a do nothing cord, doesn't add or subtract anything. It will not make up for system or recording deficiency so it wont suit people who want or need additive enhancements. Most of what you mention above is exactly the type of added hifi coloration that I want to avoid with power cords, it all depends on what one's after use what is satisfying to you.
david
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That's a wonderful write-up Keith. Thanks. Not sure how we've gone from "last turntable" etc to solar power, conditioners, and AC cables in the same thread but OK. One comment I'd add is that honestly, I was not as impressed with the CC cables UNTIL I removed the power conditioner. Once that abomination was removed, a re-evaluation of several PCs yielded very different results. But your sage advice still stands- do your own comparisons in your own house. I admit there are a couple of PCs I'd like to try, but life is short and I already spend too much time already evaluating small things looking for incremental gain. What the CC's provide at this point, is their usefulness in not bringing themselves to attention in such a way that they cry out "something ain't right...go fish"! That I don't think about them is about the best I can hope for.
So many questions, so little time....
Let's put it this way micro...Steve and I heard no difference in our systems with the addition of solar power. Believe it or not, that's up to you.
Don't understand that conclusion, then go and do the research yourself as to why this is possible.
Meanwhile, Steve and I will continue to enjoy our systems...and the music,
Mains is technical question, we also have to debate it as such. We have very extreme opinions concerning mains and power in this forum, people fortunately have always been happy debating them.
BTW, do you have the same solar system as Steve? Your opinion is particularly interesting because your system is very different from his, and you agree on the "no difference" - two distinct data points.
It is sad that WBF could be exploring something innovative that no other audio forum has been debating and we lack any detail to explore it. Perhaps I am more interested in it because the special FET used by VTL in the 7.5 mk3 preamp buffer was developed for inverter technology ...
Mains is technical question, we also have to debate it as such. We have very extreme opinions concerning mains and power in this forum, people fortunately have always been happy debating them.
BTW, do you have the same solar system as Steve? Your opinion is particularly interesting because your system is very different from his, and you agree on the "no difference" - two distinct data points.
It is sad that WBF could be exploring something innovative that no other audio forum has been debating and we lack any detail to explore it. Perhaps I am more interested in it because the special FET used by VTL in the 7.5 mk3 preamp buffer was developed for inverter technology ...
Let's state this then, micro.. I strongly suspect that Steve and I have better things to do with our time than to look up specs and other info about our solar system's inverters. Regardless of how much you or anyone feels it might better the understanding of such science on this forum, or any other.
... Perhaps I am more interested in it because the special FET used by VTL in the 7.5 mk3 preamp buffer was developed for inverter technology ...
You also have technical expertise many of us lack so the interest is relative to that so is the ability to converse in technical terms.
david
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Great post KeithR, many thanks for your time.
I am also using the Ching Chengs but need more time to have a solid opinion. One thing is sure - performance is dependent on system.
People should be warned that Ching Cheng manufactures tens of types of power cables and we are just debating a specif type. BTW, at some time Lew Johnson also shared a similar opinion to David concerning power cords and supplied an hospital grade power cord with his equipment - I still keep one of them. Unfortunately the official export units sent to Europe were supplied with a miserable alternative Shucko power cord ...
Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
I tend to agree with this
Micro
I'm not trying to be difficult but if you want the information I suggest you contact Sun Power and ask them for specs on their microinverters
All I know is that they were designed for the Sun Power system. I also remember a few months ago when you asked me the same question I posted the specs on their micro inverters and you never so much as commented. So I suggest you do your own due diligence
Not sure if this is helpful
https://us.sunpower.com/sites/sunpo...x22-series-360-residential-ac-modules-0_3.pdf
If not I suggest you contact them and ask them specifics
Marty, thanks. As I recall from the XLR thread, you and I agree on alot in this arena.
My personal view of the Ching Chengs was positive - as they don't shrink the soundstage like a stock cord. I have several friends who tried them out and one still uses them as they sound good and he doesn't want to fiddle around. I just found my WyWires more resolving/articulate in the upper midrange on guitars and strings. For a $299 street cord, I don't find the price difference appalling. I think there are a lot of expensive cords that frankly are colored and when people substitute CCs they realize how bad they are. So that's a huge plus.
It is helpful, thanks - a lot more than your previous informations in the other thread: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/the-time-has-come-ive-gone-solar.26171/
So you and Dave are using this system? Only a firm yes or no is needed - not too much effort ...
In case any one is following this line of debate. Steve and Dave claims are of utmost interest for audiophiles. Solar systems charge batteries that supply DC to inverters that generate our mains.
Wheatear they are charged by the mains offline or by solar panels it is irrelevant. This implies that using these particular inverters and batteries with a charging system any one can have high quality mains in their systems for little hassle and money - the not needed solar panels are the most expensive part in the solar system.
Now I can say I understand your tiresome of this sir
. Ching Cheng's have some naughty behaviors but they serve my listening objectives better than whatever I had before. A great gift from a friend. No more fishing for me too. I am going bear hunting now
.Tang
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