I said I would never buy another Turntable...Argh !!!

[microstrip]

How will I know if my equipment can withstand the fluctuations, unless it breaks, then I know it can't. Also, then I cannot risk buying used from the EU which has a 220v

Surely you have to carry the proper research.

All EU, including the UK has 230V. However in mainland it is +6/-10% and the UK +10%/ -6%. Since then appliance manufacturers have been testing at 230V +/-10%.

Imported equipment usually works at twice the voltage limits of US - the transformer primaries are just connected in series, not in parallel.

Most equipment has regulated DC supplies. However many times the tube filament power supplies are AC not regulated and sound quality decreases significantly when the tube cathodes are insufficiently heated by low mains voltage.

 

[ddk]

For whatever it is worth I did not notice any lack of dynamics in Chris’s system. Of course we did not directly compare anything with and without his conditioners before is amplifiers, but I heard incredible dynamics and effortlessness from his system and it was very low noise.

Perhaps it would sound better without him but I have no idea without actually trying it one way and then the other. I like tangos suggestion to try it without at his new place because everything is being moved anyway and he is essentially starting over in a completely new environment.

Transformers of adequate size generally add sterility you wont hear it without direct comparison or knowing what to listen for, the roll off is usually when you have too small a transformer. The best way to describe it is more or less natural .

david

 

[microstrip]

I am giving my purepower 2000 and its battery unit, pus some extra to get the Torus avr 30. Main idea for me is getting rid of the noise and isolation transformer seems to be a fitting idea. Purepower is great when run from battery, but makes noise with my system when connected to mains. It was generally on 50 percent load and is about a 2k watts unit. Torus avr 30 says 7200VA and 30a, so quite a lot more headroom for me, if its worth it... I still havent made the exchange, I am on the brink, thus my dilemma...

If you do not have regulation problems, the Torus is technically one of the best and more innovative passive units (non-regenerator). Remember to check the quality of the ground connection.

 

[bonzo75]

Surely you have to carry the proper research.

All EU, including the UK has 230V. However in mainland it is +6/-10% and the UK +10%/ -6%. Since then appliance manufacturers have been testing at 230V +/-10%.

Imported equipment usually works at twice the voltage limits of US - the transformer primaries are just connected in series, not in parallel.

Most equipment has regulated DC supplies. However many times the tube filament power supplies are AC not regulated and sound quality decreases significantly when the tube cathodes are insufficiently heated by low mains voltage.

UK is 230 only on paper. It will be 240 or more

 

[kodomo]

In

Transformers of adequate size generally add sterility you wont hear it without direct comparison or knowing what to listen for, the roll off is usually when you have too small a transformer. The best way to describe it is more or less natural .

david

In my case transformer will be of adequate size, actually will be much more than that. What do you consider as sounding sterile if I may ask, as this is what applies in my situation?

 

[bonzo75]

We all hear what we want to hear.
We all spend what we want to spend.

Isn't this what Polonius counseled Laertes?

 

[PeterA]

Yes, I have zero audiophile power chords too. That topic is basically finished for me.

I respect this but did not actually listen to any comparisons so I take Al at his word that it sounds better with stock power cables.

In my system I have done the direct comparison and it sounds better with audio file power cords, But I did not really do a component by component rigorous test.

It is an interesting subject and I think Barry system context dependent as well as the preferences of the listener

 

[microstrip]

UK is 230 only on paper. It will be 240 or more

It is well known. I had hope you would be able to deal with averages and percentages ...

 

[microstrip]

I respect this but did not actually listen to any comparisons so I take Al at his word that it sounds better with stock power cables.

In my system I have done the direct comparison and it sounds better with audio file power cords, But I did not really do a component by component rigorous test.

It is an interesting subject and I think Barry system context dependent as well as the preferences of the listener

You take word of audiophiles on audiophile voodoo subjects? How, I see I am a skeptical, I only believe after I try ... And even then ...

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, I didn't know audiophiles existed in the late 1500s, early 1600s.

 

[bonzo75]

Ked, I didn't know audiophiles existed in the late 1500s, early 1600s.

Where do you think "lend me thy ears" came from

 

[PeterA]

You take word of audiophiles on audiophile voodoo subjects? How, I see I am a skeptical, I only believe after I try ... And even then ...

No. I take Al at his word that he prefers the sound of stock power cables in his system and that he believes it is “better”. Al is not just any audiophile. He and I played with this in my system and I preferred TA power cords to my front end.

I also qualified it by adding that I did not do any comparisons in his system nor am I interested in doing that in someone else’s system unless invited to do so for a second opinion. Yikes!!!!

 

[ddk]

In

In my case transformer will be of adequate size, actually will be much more than that. What do you consider as sounding sterile if I may ask, as this is what applies in my situation?

Bass is the first obvious casualty, it tightens up becoming more impressive and somewhat hifi, the same is true of the rest of frequency range. Initially it sounds impressive and clean but after half an hour you'll notice that it's hifi and less musical, kind of like going from SET to a balanced SS system but probably not to that extent but still hifi. Of course there are many who like this type of sound. This is what you will hear in an tweak free unmolested system, I have no idea where you'll end up in a heavily tweaked one because in most of those cases you're chasing your tail compensating for other things.

david

 

[ddk]

I am giving my purepower 2000 and its battery unit, pus some extra to get the Torus avr 30. Main idea for me is getting rid of the noise and isolation transformer seems to be a fitting idea. Purepower is great when run from battery, but makes noise with my system when connected to mains. It was generally on 50 percent load and is about a 2k watts unit. Torus avr 30 says 7200VA and 30a, so quite a lot more headroom for me, if its worth it... I still havent made the exchange, I am on the brink, thus my dilemma...

There are a lot of complaints on various forums regarding PP and the poor quality of their products. I tried a couple of them and they were very noisy too and didn’t sound good either.
david

 

[bonzo75]

There are a lot of complaints on various forums regarding PP and the poor quality of their products. I tried a couple of them and they were very noisy too and didn’t sound good either.
david

No problems here. The problems started after there was some change in management. The main issue is not sonics. It is protecting gear from fluctuations

 

[Steve Williams]

Bass is the first obvious casualty, it tightens up becoming more impressive and somewhat hifi, the same is true of the rest of frequency range. Initially it sounds impressive and clean but after half an hour you'll notice that it's hifi and less musical, kind of like going from SET to a balanced SS system but probably not to that extent but still hifi. Of course there are many who like this type of sound. This is what you will hear in an tweak free unmolested system, I have no idea where you'll end up in a heavily tweaked one because in most of those cases you're chasing your tail compensating for other things.

david

I totally agree David, at least in my system

you proved this to me when you visited. It was truly an eye opener.

Everything sounds perfect and just where it should be but that word sterile for me in my system came to be a loss of ambient sound which took away a sense of presence. Hence my interpretation of the word "sterile"

 

[KeithR]

Bass is the first obvious casualty, it tightens up becoming more impressive and somewhat hifi, the same is true of the rest of frequency range. Initially it sounds impressive and clean but after half an hour you'll notice that it's hifi and less musical, kind of like going from SET to a balanced SS system but probably not to that extent but still hifi. Of course there are many who like this type of sound. This is what you will hear in an tweak free unmolested system, I have no idea where you'll end up in a heavily tweaked one because in most of those cases you're chasing your tail compensating for other things.

david

That's interesting because I tried with and without my Torus partly because of your on-record advice and there was definitely no harm to musicality. It might be because I live in a complex with 500 other units though. My Zu/SET friend (213Cobra on this forum) tried your preferred Ching Chengs with and without his Panamax iso transformer and he, too, found the transformer beneficial. And like you, he's about as far away from a hifi sound lover as you'll meet with tone and musicality his 1a and 1b attributes.

I also tried my Ref 75SE in the Torus vs the wall and while 213Cobra thought it was cleaner, a reviewer friend and I could not tell a difference reliably. Hence, I've left the amp in the Torus (and I pull less than 3 amps from the wall anyways).

Most recently I compared an Audioquest power distributor to the Torus (so a big power strip) and the dealer and i both preferred the Torus distinctly which had a much more open, bigger sound. in fact, I went into the demo actually wanting to prefer the AQ, so no expectation bias.

I would agree with you that "sledgehammer bass" and those kind of comments on cords and conditioners are colorations and not neutral.
However, while I would love to dump the 60lb Torus and remove a box from my system (trust me, i hate cables and tweaks with a passion), my demos have proven the opposite in my multi-family dwelling.

 

[ddk]

I totally agree David, at least in my system

you proved this to me when you visited. It was truly an eye opener.

Everything sounds perfect and just where it should be but that word sterile for me in my system came to be a loss of ambient sound which took away a sense of presence. Hence my interpretation of the word "sterile"

That's exactly it Steve and with the ML3 you hear it straight away.

david

 

[ddk]

That's interesting because I tried with and without my Torus partly because of your on-record advice and there was definitely no harm to musicality. It might be because I live in a complex with 500 other units though. My Zu/SET friend (213Cobra on this forum) tried your preferred Ching Chengs with and without his Panamax iso transformer and he, too, found the transformer beneficial. And like you, he's about as far away from a hifi sound lover as you'll meet with tone and musicality his 1a and 1b attributes.

I also tried my Ref 75SE in the Torus vs the wall and while 213Cobra thought it was cleaner, a reviewer friend and I could not tell a difference reliably. Hence, I've left the amp in the Torus (and I pull less than 3 amps from the wall anyways).

Most recently I compared an Audioquest power distributor to the Torus (so a big power strip) and the dealer and i both preferred the Torus distinctly which had a much more open, bigger sound. in fact, I went into the demo actually wanting to prefer the AQ, so no expectation bias.

I would agree with you that "sledgehammer bass" and those kind of comments on cords and conditioners are colorations and not neutral.
However, while I would love to dump the 60lb Torus and remove a box from my system (trust me, i hate cables and tweaks with a passion), my demos have proven the opposite in my multi-family dwelling.

Hi Keith,
My experience with some apartment buildings in Manhattan was that nothing can save your sound specially during the summer months. If one is dealing with difficult electricity to begin with most wont even hear a meaningful difference with or without the transformer and if what you get is preferable then by all means.

david

 

[spiritofmusic]

FWIW, my sound in London was always a crapshoot. Best times were after midnight and Sunday afternoons. Voltage fluctuated +/- 10%.
Burmester 948 was great on tone, poor on dynamics. Moving to balanced power gave the classic "after midnight sound" 24/7. Going to the overengineered Westwick 8k took things up a notch.
Even here in The Sticks where the supply is less polluted and I have my room power isolated before rest of the chapel, balanced is on balance an advantage.
And yes, I do intermittent a/b's on system changes to ascertain I'm on the right path.