What should we look for when listening to a high end speaker and are there any tracks in particular which should be used?
How to tell a good speaker
- Thread starter audiohobby
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Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
The tracks/music you like , certainly dont judge on the typical systemshow off cds /Lp s
well what separates the likes of Magico and Wilson from the cheaper stuff? I may never get to hear them so I won't be able to find out directly.
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
How to tell a good speaker, well this one is VERY EASY , if you can spend more than a couple of hours listening then you have a good speaker, normaly the EARS will let you know pretty quick if it's good or not.
garylkoh
WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
garylkoh
WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
.... and advertising. Bruce, your Evo's will cost twice the price if jtinn advertised as much as those other two.
..keep in mind system matching..if you are considering to buy a new set of soeakers one can find that a great speaker in system A is not that great in system B, issues like placement, power and cables are just some of many variables of the equation.
Pre-disclaimer: MHO, YMMV and all of that.
Some folks want their system to have a strong characteristic sound of its own; they want to listen to the music through that lens. Some even believe that they can get closer to the sound of live music listening through that lens. With all due respect, I don't personally believe that's possible; I believe all system colorations are an impediment to realism, no matter how attractive they may be. I want to listen through the lens of the recordings as the artists, engineers and producers intended them to be heard, or at least I want to get reasonably close to that ideal. With that in mind, listen to what you're familiar with and listen to a lot of it. Listen to recordings that you know well, and listen to the good, the bad and the ugly. If you can hear the speakers are smoothing the harshness of a particularly bright recording, listen next to a recording that you think is warm. Are the characteristics that smoothed the harsh recording dulling the warm one? Or does the "warm" recording sound even better through these speakers?
Listen a lot. Change recordings a lot. Are you evaluating speakers? If so, I think critical listening will never be more important and casual enjoyment without critical analysis will never be more dangerous. This puts me firmly outside of the "if it makes you tap your foot it's all good" camp and deep into the "use your ears" camp at once. But it's the only way I know how to evaluate speakers and get satisfactory results.
One more time: MHO. YMMV.
Tim
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Remember you will not be listening to a high end speaker - you will be also listening to a system and room.
Anyway, the question as you formulated it is so vague that there is no possible answer, other than Bruce foot tapping suggestion or indirectly learning about this forum generic perspectives about sound reproduction
This is fair. Listen to them in your room. You really can't evaluate speakers in a dealer's showroom. Place them according to manufacturer's instructions, then fool with it from there until you think you've got them sounding best. If your current system does not have enough power to properly drive the speakers in question you should be evaluating more powerful amplifiers along with the speakers. If you have a system mis-match in your electronics, sorry, but it exists with your old speakers too. If you have a tonal balance issue in your system electronics that needs to be compensated for in your transducers, personally, I wouldn't even attempt that. I'd eliminate that problem before I auditioned any speakers.
MHO. YMMV.
Tim
audiohobby.......I always recommend using music you are intimately familiar with. Use these very same recordings over and over no matter where you travel in search of speakers. Spend enough time with these same recordings played on your existing system so that you will be more likely to identify differences when auditioning new speakers. If you can find a dealer who will allow an in home audition of the speakers that sound best to you as you shop around, that would be even better. Good luck. Speaker shopping can be daunting.
I tend to like sleepers that don't stand out on typical material but really shine on the better recordings. I also want speakers where everything sounds a bit different even tracks on the same CD. If recording is crap it should sound like crap. Should also get them home as well. I would want to use a large number of recordings to declare them keepers.
Rob
Rob
Von Schweikert on the nameplate
LOL! Worked for me.......
Seriously, I take a whole bunch of recordings I am very familiar with that differ from each other greatly in many respects. Ummm. That wasn't very clear was it? Lemme try again. I use recordings that have small soundstages, medium and huge ones. Music from solo instrument, solo and vocals, small ensemble like quartets, large ensemble, symphony, orchestra, big bands, studio, live, close miked live, minimalist live. If the speaker can make spotting the differences between these in tone, scale and resultant shifts in timbre as a result from proximity or lack thereof, I say it's a pretty good loudspeaker. Same thing goes with upstream components.
To me if it is easy to make the loudspeaker sound one way or another, it's a good loudspeaker. The downside is that these types of speakers do require more attention to when it comes to both set up and matching since the bad will be exposed just as much as the good. The upside is very high potential for the more involved owner.
Just my 2 centavos
I tend to like sleepers that don't stand out on typical material but really shine on the better recordings. I also want speakers where everything sounds a bit different even tracks on the same CD. If recording is crap it should sound like crap. Should also get them home as well. I would want to use a large number of recordings to declare them keepers.
Rob
Rob you are an excellent candidate for, Acoustat's.
this might help. http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...a-Dealer-Applying-My-Method-and-Afterthoughts
I belive you should listen to a music selection from beginning to end.
I belive you should listen to a music selection from beginning to end.
I have been fortunate to listen to loads of great speakers, and own a few over the last 20 years and am happy to share my two cents/experience:
1. Any speaker, big or small, ludicrously expensive or pocket-change cheap...can make magic. A well selected system properly set up can make serious magic...both musically and in the 'audiophile-way' (highs, lows, decay, transient response, linearity, soundstage, etc)
2. What has made [some] of the big boys [some of the time...when set up well] have superb magic, transformative powers of music-making are:
a. effortless, effortless, effortless...at any volume, volume 1 or volume 100...they never strain, never stretch, never wobble or get edgy...and even at volume 1, you hear EVERYTHING...from lowest bass thwack to the whisper of a flute...in fact, this is DANGEROUS...the best systems can play SO loudly...you literally shout and cannot hear yourself...but you are NOT cringing from the volume...normally you cringe from DISTORTION...but when it is effortless, undistorted and loud, it can be deceptive...and then you go deaf. Literally. I have a good audiophile friend who wears two hearing aids after ONE day listening to SOTA big boy speakers at concert levels in a small room for 5 hours...his hearing never came back the next morning.
b. linearity and coherence from top to bottom...unlike a mid-market bookshelf with padded bass to make it feel bigger than it is, the best of the best delivery the full spectrum of sound with grace and power...and they do it so that you cannot tell which is the tweeter and which the mid...it is all there, as music. you dont think about the cones or the ribbons
c. detail/decay...you really do find that you heard things you NEVER heard before in the same recording...when i was fortunate to get to a certain level of equipment (all second-hand), i found a universal comment from visitors is always...'wow, it is so clear, and i never heard that part before...cool' Usually, this is in pop recordings, hip hop, rap...not brilliantly recorded stuff (like MA Recordings)...but you start to hear contrapuntal themes, chorals in the background, whispers, tings/dings/mini-beats that are synchopated in the background)...and again, i am talking about hip hop, rap, rock, etc, nevermind an FIM K2 HDCD Remaster.
d. speed/complexity...part of effortless is the speaker's ability to fire off a gazillion staccatos bursts and keep them all independent of each other...while playing a single long violin note at the same time. It is quick off the draw with superlative waves of power...extremely difficult to do BOTH...while it can also maintain complex orchestral passages with delicate bits going on at the same time...that do not get drowned out by the waves of powerful music coming over the top.
e. transparency...meaning you really feel like what you stuck in...came out the other side. In some of my earlier speakers...Celestion SL6si's...i always liked what i heard coming thru them...but it always sounded slightly golden hued...no problem cause i liked it...but it was colored. and it was a touch slow and got super-confused with super-complex passages. With the big boys...you really hear the differences in recording styles, the difference between real echo...and reverb implanted at the recording studio. You also hear the difference between equipment, originals vs remasters of CDs, cables, etc, etc. And the great thing is (that is a LOT of fun for an audiophile)...is that it is not hard to do it...you dont sit there brow furrowed trying to guess about what you're hearing...you go to your laptop to surf around...and start playing an album you've not heard on your latest upgraded system...and you turn around when the track comes on...and realize the guy's not singing in a live venue...the reverb is fake...it so obvious, you realize 'i never heard that before'.
Those are my personal notes, and reflective of the discovery of where i have come from to present day. A lot of fun. And its still all about the music...well, okay mostly,..the equipment is cool too.
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