How Do I Get The Music In My Room

[Kingrex]

My listening chair is an office chair on rollers and I often experiment with different distances. Sometimes I prefer the envelopment from 8', and sometimes I'll move back as far as 14' .

To some degree, i do what I can do.

 

[DSkip]

This thread brings a smile to my face king. I feel like the higher you climb up the audio ladder the easier it is to get jaded. It’s like we forget to look down to see how far up we have actually come.

I have clients who save for months for a $500 component and I have others who can drop five figures like it’s an hours pay. The joy on the formers face always surpasses that of the latter, not that the latter doesn’t hVe joy with the purchase, but sometimes it feels like just another gas stop instead of a destination.

The reinvigoration I’m getting from you here is what the hobby is about. I commend you and hope this renewed passion continues.

 

[wil]

To some degree, i do what I can do. View attachment 66567

Nice chair. Put some wheels on it and you're in business!

 

[Kingrex]

Nice chair. Put some wheels on it and you're in business!

I actually throw this guy in front of the big one when I'm in the mood to really listen.

 

[Empirical Audio]

I will try. I have a long ways to go. I was so stunned last night, and my wife was out for an hour or so. I sat and enjoyed 3 of my favorite albums.

You haven't heard anything yet. This is just the tip of the iceberg. After you get the placement dialed-in, do some serious active acoustics and you will be shocked.

 

[sbnx]

Hello King. the sense of envelopment and spaciousness are driven by reflections. This is a double edged sword as reflections also cause swings in the frequency response. Stereo subwoofers will add a sense of space and envelopment if you are up to the integration challenge. Another option is to add some diffusion. I notice you have an open room (kitchen) to your right. You could try adding a free standing diffuser in that doorway (something like vicoustic totem) and experiment with the effect. Also a couple of free standing diffusers behind your head (2' to 3').

 

[spiritofmusic]

King, if you've caught any of my posts you'll see I've gone thru quite the journey on system dial in and bridging the divide to great acoustics.

I count myself as extremely fortunate to end up in a room that is truly great in it's own right, and a blank canvas for ongoing optimisation.

For me, clearing my Zus of front and side walls has been critical, and that wasn't possible in my old space. Have to agree w Al that space around speakers really allows depth to develop.

I've been blessed and cursed w onboard subs...cursed in that this whole area has really been my biggest challenge to get right. My take here is to absolutely strive to get subs entry into music as low and subtle as possible. Tempting as it is to have them more prominent, I can tell you that seven years of getting this wrong has been my biggest sin in this hobby. You absolutely must not be aware of them at all...until you switch them off.

For me, a gentle balance of absorption and diffusion has worked, absorber panels on front wall and side wall reflection points, diffusion on ceiling (descending eaves in my case), part carpeted/part vinyl covered timber floor.

I'm about to install a cheap and cheerful diffuser system on my eaves, 1200x300x25 PET boards, 4 no. R and L, in parallel w my existing structural steel break ups. High hopes for this.

Listening distance and toe in has been variable, but I always return to one situation, fairly strong toe in, seat 12' ears to tweeters.

So my advice is to keep at it. If you have a room which is a good foundation to start, efforts on spkrs positioning, subs integration and gentle room acoustics treatments, will bear fruit.

 

[bonzo75]

King, if you've caught any of my posts you'll

King, if you've caught any of the posts between his...

 

[Kingrex]

Thanks guys. A while back I bought a rail system to make a barn type sliding door to close the kitchen hole. My wife is a bit suspect of it all. I also talked with a contractor about getting a pocket door in there. That is a bearing wall. It carries a lot of load. I dropped the ceiling on the other side of the wall in the nook area. That would all need to be take out to get supports under the floor joist above before the wall could be opened and a beam put in. So Im back to the sliding barn door. If I can find some nice worm wood for a decent price, I may try and slip it in one day. Prior to even thinking about reflections. I wanted the door to block the sound of my Subzero Refridgerator from getting into the living room. It seems to run all the time.

I could try a pair of subs. Always heard they are best in pairs. But where do you put them. From what I have read, they don't like corners. They want to sit between my speakers. That real estate isnt really available. So I don't have subs for now.

I'm pretty pleased by what I heard just getting them into the room more. I need to spend a lot more time now finding the best dept, width, toe and seat position. I wish I could have some friends over. Its nice to have someone in the hotseat while you make small adjustments.

 

[spiritofmusic]

King, I find the best decisions re audio are made with friends over, and critically over a drink.

 

[DSkip]

Thanks guys. A while back I bought a rail system to make a barn type sliding door to close the kitchen hole. My wife is a bit suspect of it all. I also talked with a contractor about getting a pocket door in there. That is a bearing wall. It carries a lot of load. I dropped the ceiling on the other side of the wall in the nook area. That would all need to be take out to get supports under the floor joist above before the wall could be opened and a beam put in. So Im back to the sliding barn door. If I can find some nice worm wood for a decent price, I may try and slip it in one day. Prior to even thinking about reflections. I wanted the door to block the sound of my Subzero Refridgerator from getting into the living room. It seems to run all the time.

I could try a pair of subs. Always heard they are best in pairs. But where do you put them. From what I have read, they don't like corners. They want to sit between my speakers. That real estate isnt really available. So I don't have subs for now.

I'm pretty pleased by what I heard just getting them into the room more. I need to spend a lot more time now finding the best dept, width, toe and seat position. I wish I could have some friends over. Its nice to have someone in the hotseat while you make small adjustments.

If I am trying to understand a new room, I will make large adjustments (8-12” at a time) until I feel comfortable. Once you have a general area to work with it becomes easier and the movements become smaller and smaller. I also play with on axis and no toe in. These tactics just give you boundaries to work with and gives you an idea of the balance you may want to strike. Seat positioning for me isn’t too bad. It generally follows the same ratio as what you prefer in the current setup, whatever that may be. Not always, but most times.

 

[sbnx]

The sliding "barn" door sounds like a better idea. The pocket doors would likely rattle with no way to stop it.

The subs can go in the corner as long as they have some capability of eq. You don't want them crossed over high. You get the sense of space from the bass that is below 40Hz. Part of it comes from having one sub phase different from the other which causes the sound pressure wave to move from left to right (or right to left). Your ears pick up the pressure delta as envelopment and space.

 

[Kingrex]

The sliding "barn" door sounds like a better idea. The pocket doors would likely rattle with no way to stop it.

The subs can go in the corner as long as they have some capability of eq. You don't want them crossed over high. You get the sense of space from the bass that is below 40Hz. Part of it comes from having one sub phase different from the other which causes the sound pressure wave to move from left to right (or right to left). Your ears pick up the pressure delta as envelopment and space.

Really for a totally different thread, but how different are subs than active room treatments, or even passive Synergistic bowls or those small brass dots you put all over your walls. I guess the sub adds some depth. But I gather you don't really hear the sub. Its more a sense of completeness and clarity in the upper frequencies. It seems like your saying the sub is more a way to help the main speakers express better in the room. Hence the question.

 

[spiritofmusic]

The sliding "barn" door sounds like a better idea. The pocket doors would likely rattle with no way to stop it.

The subs can go in the corner as long as they have some capability of eq. You don't want them crossed over high. You get the sense of space from the bass that is below 40Hz. Part of it comes from having one sub phase different from the other which causes the sound pressure wave to move from left to right (or right to left). Your ears pick up the pressure delta as envelopment and space.

My Zus have built-in downfiring subs. I have them crossed to my main drivers at 39Hz. They are also independently adjustable for phase. Are you suggesting experimenting with different phase settings for each speaker could prove worthwhile?

 

[sbnx]

I know that seems weird. But easy to do and put back if you dont like it. Only adjust one sub relative to the other. Turn the phase knob 90 degrees on on one of them. So if the left is at 20 degress make the right 110 degrees and give it a listen. Duke Le June introduced this concept to me.

 

[sbnx]

I have never used active room treatment or the brass dots so i cant comment on them

 

[spiritofmusic]

I know that seems weird. But easy to do and put back if you dont like it. Only adjust one sub relative to the other. Turn the phase knob 90 degrees on on one of them. So if the left is at 20 degress make the right 110 degrees and give it a listen. Duke Le June introduced this concept to me.

Willdo, my system is pretty neutral as things stand, so any differences should be discernable. Will remember to keep a 90° difference btwn R and L. I've just made a small positive change to my supertweeters as well.

 

[JackD201]

Now that you're dialing in, let's get your horn module higher up. PAP Quintet baby! Hehehehe!

A system set up by my friend in NJ for his wife, very "in the room". Skip to 6:20 to skip assembly and go straight to listening. These use the Full Rangers though.

 

[Kingrex]

I don't think this is what you meant by horn higher up. Notice the heavy 7 inch tall block of LVL and 1 inch insulation my speaker is on. Best PAP Pap speaker mod I made. Puts the horn at ear height. Bass is much deeper and more pronounced. I keep telling Zeev and Thomas to make a stand that would attach to the frame.

 

[JackD201]

Cool!