High Fidelity Cables

Joel

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Sep 13, 2013
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#22
Completely in line with Harlequin.
It's not completely a sound level issue. That's more about liveliness or vividness.
I was fully satisfied with my previous Vivid K1 speakers as they needed some quietness within the playback chain, and having very stable and powerful amps, it was really a stunning association.
With my current Vivid G1, it's a bit different as they are more laid back compared to the K1s. They need insane amount of power in the low end, and finally, the HFC wires don't provide me with all the expected liveliness. I would consider them as a beautiful woman's picture in a magazine, compare to the crude image of the same woman in the real life... Perhaps the woman is more beautiful on the glazed paper than in the real life. But what about my personal sensations and feelings ? I prefer by far the real life... And perhaps the HFC wires provide a too much beautiful sound to be completely honest. But they are certainly extremely addictive wires.

But beyond my own speakers' case, I would say: one system, one pair of speaker wires. Perfect wires don't exist...
My 2 cents.

Joël.
 
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spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
6,416
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E. England
#25
Completely in line with Harlequin.
It's not completely a sound level issue. That's more about liveliness or vividness.
I was fully satisfied with my previous Vivid K1 speakers as they needed some quietness within the playback chain, and having very stable and powerful amps, it was really a stunning association.
With my current Vivid G1, it's a bit different as they are more laid back compared to the K1s. They need insane amount of power in the low end, and finally, the HFC wires don't provide me with all the expected liveliness. I would consider them as a beautiful woman's picture in a magazine, compare to the crude image of the same woman in the real life... Perhaps the woman is more beautiful on the glazed paper than in the real life. But what about my personal sensations and feelings ? I prefer by far the real life... And perhaps the HFC wires provide a too much beautiful sound to be completely honest. But they are certainly extremely addictive wires.

Joel, many thanks for highlighting the G1s greediness when it comes to bass power demands. I had been playing w/the idea of considering a pair w/my Nat SETs, poss even biamping, but your comments are pushing me in a different direction, after some ambiguous comments on amp demands from others.
 

Joel

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Sep 13, 2013
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#26
Joel, many thanks for highlighting the G1s greediness when it comes to bass power demands. I had been playing w/the idea of considering a pair w/my Nat SETs, poss even biamping, but your comments are pushing me in a different direction, after some ambiguous comments on amp demands from others.
Don't mention it.
In fact 60 W on a 4 Ohms load seems not enough, considering the Giya G1 requirements in the bottom end.
The G1s are not anyway such difficult loads, with friendly sensitivity & impedance. But if you wont to drive them at their very best, you will certainly need some additional power horses.
To make things more complicated for you, a counterexample is a small chinese direct digital amp (QLS Hifi QA100) with rather limited power ratings (circa 60W 8 Ohms, 100 on 4), that gave me the sensation to directly plug the speakers on the power outlet... :) Of course these amps have not such subtle top end compared to your NAT SETs, but it's completely surprising...

http://www.qlshifi.com/en/wzcapi/qa100.htm

That makes power rating not the sole useful criterion for the ability to drive a pair of speakers.
But we're getting far from the HFC topic now...
 
#27
Completely in line with Harlequin.
It's not completely a sound level issue. That's more about liveliness or vividness.
I was fully satisfied with my previous Vivid K1 speakers as they needed some quietness within the playback chain, and having very stable and powerful amps, it was really a stunning association.
With my current Vivid G1, it's a bit different as they are more laid back compared to the K1s. They need insane amount of power in the low end, and finally, the HFC wires don't provide me with all the expected liveliness. I would consider them as a beautiful woman's picture in a magazine, compare to the crude image of the same woman in the real life... Perhaps the woman is more beautiful on the glazed paper than in the real life. But what about my personal sensations and feelings ? I prefer by far the real life... And perhaps the HFC wires provide a too much beautiful sound to be completely honest. But they are certainly extremely addictive wires.

But beyond my own speakers' case, I would say: one system, one pair of speaker wires. Perfect wires don't exist...
My 2 cents.

Joël.
Joel, I am somewhat perplexed by your statement, "perhaps the HFC wires provide a too much beautiful sound to be completely honest." Unless you and I were recording engineers, how would we know? I heard speakers at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest that had no capacitors in their crossovers and were unbelievably dynamic. On some recordings this was magic but on others it was irritatingly edgy. There were no HFCs involved. My hypothesis is that we were hearing judgments made by recording engineers to get some frequencies more emphasis to offset the lack they were hearing on their playback systems. In other words these recordings are ruined or at least need remastering with better equipment.

I grant that some of what I hear with the HFCs is not music but rather the sound of the musicians and playing errors. But it is also timbrel accuracy, ambience, and note decay. This might be analogous to your woman's picture you mention, with her wrinkles shown by the HFCs and not air brushed out. I go for realism with the sense that I am at the recording event, not receiving sanitized music.
 
May 30, 2010
14,131
80
48
Portugal
#28
Speaker cables make sonething special indeed.
An important fact to be mentionned anyway is their important capacitance.
Compared to a normal wire, in my system at three meters from the speakers there is a loss of circa 5 dB with the HFC, that is not small...
IMO you need to partner them with the right speakers and amps (as usual...) and not ask for insane level in the bottom end.
That said, they are excellent wires...
Excessive capacitance would roll-off upper frequencies in some systems - this happens with some signal cables, but as far as I know not in speaker cables.
A 5 dB loss would indicate a resistance much higher than typical - of the order of magnitude of the speaker impedance. Did you try to measure it?
 
#29
Excessive capacitance would roll-off upper frequencies in some systems - this happens with some signal cables, but as far as I know not in speaker cables.
A 5 dB loss would indicate a resistance much higher than typical - of the order of magnitude of the speaker impedance. Did you try to measure it?
Yes, the HFCs use tin wire and, of course, magnets in the signal path as part of their design. They showed new "Pro" cables at the RMAF. They have 17" waveguides. I am not going there except for the power to the HFC Waveguide Power Center. Nevertheless, the system with them sounded quite good.
 

Harlequin

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Jul 30, 2013
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#30
Excessive capacitance would roll-off upper frequencies in some systems - this happens with some signal cables, but as far as I know not in speaker cables.
A 5 dB loss would indicate a resistance much higher than typical - of the order of magnitude of the speaker impedance. Did you try to measure it?
HFC have, as I understand it , recently introduced a purchase option aimed at addressing just such an impedance scenario , a little like Transparent Audio's previous Hi or Lo options.
 
#31
HFC have, as I understand it , recently introduced a purchase option aimed at addressing just such an impedance scenario , a little like Transparent Audio's previous Hi or Lo options.
I do remember early on that HFC was going to a lower impedance wire, but have heard nothing of a further lowering. All their efforts now are toward more rare earth magnets in all of their cables from ics to pcs. I talked extensively to Rick Schultz at the RMAF. He was doing demonstrations of the impact of magnetics on ac.
 

Harlequin

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#32
I do remember early on that HFC was going to a lower impedance wire, but have heard nothing of a further lowering. All their efforts now are toward more rare earth magnets in all of their cables from ics to pcs. I talked extensively to Rick Schultz at the RMAF. He was doing demonstrations of the impact of magnetics on ac.
You are most likely closer to events than I TBG, on reflection "Recent" would be closer to a couple of years ago when it was muted as a potential solution to the situation I described earlier.
 

Joel

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Sep 13, 2013
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#33
Joel, I am somewhat perplexed by your statement, "perhaps the HFC wires provide a too much beautiful sound to be completely honest." Unless you and I were recording engineers, how would we know? I heard speakers at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest that had no capacitors in their crossovers and were unbelievably dynamic. On some recordings this was magic but on others it was irritatingly edgy. There were no HFCs involved. My hypothesis is that we were hearing judgments made by recording engineers to get some frequencies more emphasis to offset the lack they were hearing on their playback systems. In other words these recordings are ruined or at least need remastering with better equipment.

I grant that some of what I hear with the HFCs is not music but rather the sound of the musicians and playing errors. But it is also timbrel accuracy, ambience, and note decay. This might be analogous to your woman's picture you mention, with her wrinkles shown by the HFCs and not air brushed out. I go for realism with the sense that I am at the recording event, not receiving sanitized music.
Dear TBG, I completely agree about tonal accuracy, ambience and harmonic density of HFCs. For all these stunning features, I still have a pair of HF speaker cables. I also wonder which cable pair could replace my HFCs in my system. And sincerely, I have no idea till now. But this over liquid presentation seems a bit exaggerated to my ears on my current speakers. That was not the case with the previous ones. We all look for realism and unfortunately the universal and perfect speaker wire doesn't exist. If only...
 
#34
Dear TBG, I completely agree about tonal accuracy, ambience and harmonic density of HFCs. For all these stunning features, I still have a pair of HF speaker cables. I also wonder which cable pair could replace my HFCs in my system. And sincerely, I have no idea till now. But this over liquid presentation seems a bit exaggerated to my ears on my current speakers. That was not the case with the previous ones. We all look for realism and unfortunately the universal and perfect speaker wire doesn't exist. If only...
Joel, do you use a tube amp, especially one with WE 300Bs? I must say that my Koda K-10 is slightly liquid sounding.
 

Joel

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#35
My reference amps are solid state pure class A gears. I also have a slightly liquid sound via my DHT preamp. Never heard the Robert Kosh preamp but it seems to be a very fine piece of gear...
I wish I could receive a K10 or K15 loaner for review one day...
Once again, today my main concern about HFC is the recessed low end compared to other contenders in the same area of price (or lower), and a small lack in dynamics. I didn't say they don't produce bass or they are completely laid back. I just said that in my current system, on this two specific points, they do not deliver a completely satisfactory performance to my ears... but in terms of transparency and neutrality, they are outstanding cables, among the very best...
 
#36
The HFCF Pros

A very good point Joel, that mirrors in part my own experience with HFC cables, Over a period of several weeks I moved up the food chain with Single ended signal cables, eventually settling upon the CT-1 UR's that have remained in my system for a couple of years now and I simply would not be without them.

However, this was not to prove a universal success story with my time with HFC speaker cable, Once again I worked my way up the model line eventually arriving once again at UR. As Joel has eluded to, I always felt that I was fighting against the LCR characteristics of the HFC's in that I just could not attain the same Mahoosive Soundstage and vast 3D like bubble of sound that I could achieve with a couple of other speaker cables to hand Viz: Magnan Audio Ref , Transparent Audio Reference MM2, no matter how much I cranked up my ARC Pre , and as fabulous as they were on tonality, transparency etc,etc, I just could not reconcile myself to the loss of dB's in the room.

I should caviat this report by disclosing that the speakers in my system were ML CLX Anniversaries and therefore do present quite a challenging load at 90dB and 0.7 Ohms at 20kHz.
Joel and Harlequin, the HFC Pro speaker wires are sharply louder and have exceptional bass extension, but they are expensive with very long waveguides.

Norm
 
#37
Oh yes, cables are indeed very system dependent. I read in another thread about High Fidelity Cables, but that one ended in a long discussion over other cable brands. Not uncommon!

The press are very positive about HFC cables, without exeption. I would appreciate more user feedback. I also see that there are many HFC up for sale on Agon, they all ( well almost) say that they will upgrade in the HFC line.
I have just posted a new thread as I could not find any references. I am TBG and I have tried all HFC series of cables. Presently I have the PROs that are not cheap as they have many, many, many magnets in them. A signal in cables will induce an electro-magnetic signal surrounding it and that will, in turn, induce signals in the cables, that are not on the recording.
 
#38
I have just posted a new thread as I could not find any references. I am TBG and I have tried all HFC series of cables. Presently I have the PROs that are not cheap as they have many, many, many magnets in them. A signal in cables will induce an electro-magnetic signal surrounding it and that will, in turn, induce signals in the cables, that are not on the recording.
Yes, initially there were many 1st generation cables for sale as 2nd and later cables were better. As prices soared given that they had more rare earth magnets in the waveguides in the center, many had to stop where they were. In the last several years, thanks to Tripoint Troy Signature and Thor SE grounding wires, and several other components, I have totally halographic sound or realism. I sharply separate realism from musicality. One is pleasant to listen to and the former is being there or in reality being where the microphone or microphones are. I should add that a full loom is very important to this realism.
 
Sep 27, 2016
333
3
18
California
#39
I've been able to borrow High Fidelity Ultimate Reference RCA interconnects, and am starting to audition. These cables are manufactured in 2014. Does anyone know if there have been changes to the Ultimate Reference line over the last 3-4 years? I'm wondering if what I am hearing today will match what I'd hear from a 2018 Ultimate Reference? Sadly, High Fidelity customer support seems unknowledgeable and Rick seems out of the office.

Thus far I'd say this is a great cable. It produces a very expansive soundstage and is crystal clear. Imaging is precise, very well delineated. Detail is excellent and the sound is effortless, and unfatiguing. Cymbals and female vocals have a spooky realism. Strings have bite and texture. A lot to like.

On the downside, I'm wondering if they may be a tad thin. Bass impact may be slightly lacking. Though bass articulation and detail is superb. And I've been told to let them "settle" for a few days.
 
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Dec 12, 2012
65
0
0
#40
Hello bazelio,
If time permits, I test different hifi components every now and again. Cables are a hobbyhorse of mine. I've tested a lot of different cables over the past few years, from old established cable manufacturers like Transparent, MIT, Wireworld, Audioquest, Siltech et cetera. Especially lately I have dealt extensively with grounding systems and currently well tested cables such as Masterbuild, Jorma, Synergistic and Higher Fidelity cables.
In my hi-fi chain, the Higher Fidelity cables also seemed at first a little reserved. Especially these magnetic cables took a lot of playing time and after at least 200 hours they play very dynamically. The Higher Fidelity Cables as well as the Master Built Cables belong to the cables which impressed me very much. In the disciplines of musicality, naturalness and soundstage these cables are almost on par with the Schnerzinger cables.
With the Higher Fidelity cables it is important to use them as a complete system otherwise much of their magic can be lost. As I am currently working intensively on grounding systems like Tripoint, Nordost, Schnerzinger, Entreq etc., I can already say that these massive sonic progresses cause my audio system. I advise anyone who does not have a grounding system to test one. I wish you a lot of fun listening and give the Higher Fidelity cables some more time, it will be worth!
Greetings tubedoctor
 
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