HECO Direkt Einklang / Zweiklang / Dreiklang
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My Odeons are of a similar concept to the Bastanis and my room is pretty small but with a high (one end) ceiling also like 17'. Behind the speakers the ceiling is very low as the ceiling slopes downward at a pretty steep angle. Acoustically, this works very well to avoid a lot of standing waves. How far do you sit from the speakers? I usually sit about 3.5 meters from the speakers.
Bastanis also makes two bigger models than the one I linked to you. What I can tell you is that what they write about a floor firing backloaded horn is true...this really works well and gives awesome controlled bass. Midbass especially has a thrust and punch that I don't hear from conventional drivers because the mass of air moved into the room is much larger. I have heard that with the Eufrodite the setup is pretty important to get the bass right...I haven't heard it actually only the older Agathon Ultimate, which sounded really great and had stunning bass on the setup I heard. I would be pretty unhappy if it sounded as disconnected as you say you heard it sound because coherence matters very much to me (i was for a long time a full-range electrostat guy)...I can assure you my Odeons don't sound this way and I doubt the Bastanis would sound that way either.
All I can say is try the Hornings because if they work for you I htink they will REALLY work in terms of speed and resolution that the AN Es cannot offer.
The only thing that concerns me about the Bastanis is the use of the main large driver full range. I think this will create an issue with off-axis dispersion that could make them sound rather funky tonally. My Odeons do a much more conventional crossover around 1.2Khz so the horn tweeter gives a lot more to the sound, which I think is a good thing.
My small Odeons, the Rioglettos, also make superb bass with this floor firing horn concept. It is tight, punchy and full although it doesn't go much below 40hz...since it never ever sounds lightweight you don't miss that bottom octave very much. They are not remotely sensitive enough though for your 1.5 watt amp...you really need 100db/watt or higher sensitivity to take full advantage of this amp.
Interstingly, I found a similar sound from the Supravox Bahia that was at the show and it is a TQWT design. The new open baffle one is also very interesting I agree.
I sit about 4.5 meters from each speaker. My one worry with floor-firing drivers is disturbing my downstairs neighbours.
I'll see if I can find some Hornings and go for a demo. Thanks! I doubt there will be an Bastanis near me but, who knows?
One other wrinkle that I've recently discovered is that the left-most section of that red wall can act like a Helmholtz resonator -- there is space between those red panels and the concrete wall in behind. Surprisingly, it gets activated by the right speaker. This explains why my system has always sounded left-channel dominant -- the left side of the soundfield was always getting this 'boost' from the resonator. Once I discovered this I managed to move the right speaker to a position where that area is not activated. I'm now getting a perfectly balanced image from side to side but my speakers are not, by any means, in orthodox positions now -- looks odd, sounds good. Note: the speaker positions you see in the photos and videos are not their current positions.
Can you stuff some damping between the red wall and the conrete wall to minimize the effect?
The panels look nice floating on the empty black space. The stuffing would be visible unfortuntely.
I could try some black stuffing but with my current setup I actually don't hear the effect anymore.
I wonder, with rear-firing speakers like dipoles and the Hornings, would the effect be more or less pronounced(?)
Interesting: in this review of the Horning Eufrodite the reviewer also has a problematic room and also owns AN-Es.
https://www.dagogo.com/horning-eufrodite-ellipse-pm-65-speakers-review/
https://www.dagogo.com/horning-eufrodite-ellipse-pm-65-speakers-review/
Nice review of a Bastanis open baffle:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superi...stanis_Sagarmatha_Solo_Loudspeaker_Review.htm
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superi...stanis_Sagarmatha_Solo_Loudspeaker_Review.htm
not real keen on active bass with class D plate amps...sounds to disparate to my ears.
In your case, having a false wall, i would seriously consider something with floor firing bass.
Well, I am not talking about the open baffle ones...but as always, try before you buy...
What were their particular weaknesses? Do you dislike OBs in general or just these ones especially?
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I thought that bass from a monopole was omni-directional below 80hz. I didn't think the direction of firing mattered to room loading.
Definitely not that simple. You have the coupling to the air mass being driven, which is much larger with a horn (the area of the horn mouth) than just about any driver, you have the Q of the system, you have the overall phase relationship with the other drivers that will affect the perception of the impact of the bass (since it is also harmonics that are covered by other drivers usually that are doing those) and so on. A down firing horn is using the floor as part of the mouth of the horn to make its area effectively larger. There is a force behind horn bass that you don't get except from very large woofer systems and even then the perception is still different because the speed of the horn bass is much higher.
Bass Horns
The Bastanis line of passive powered speakers uses backloaded floor- firing bass-horn cabinets. This sounds complicated but there is an easy explanation which shows the big advantages of backloaded bass-horns for passive powered speakers.
•The horn transforms the air- movement from the drivers cones to a much bigger surface at the horn-mouth. This increases the possible max. dynamics enormously because for the same spl as without the horn there is a small percentage of cone- movement only.
•This also means that the amount of physical damping of the drivers resonance by the load of air is much bigger and so the required electrical damping is extremely low which is very good for the soundquality of tubed amps.
•The increased physical resistance of the basses coming from bass-horn cabinets is the only way to give high efficient passive powered speakers strong bass- response with the same efficiency as the midrange, any conventional sealed or bass-reflex cabinets could offer the basses with much lower efficiency only.
• The floor firing bass-horns are a big step up from the usual giant bass-horns because they work as well offering efficient, fundamental and dynamic basses from cabinets with common dimensions.
•The floor firing bass-horns react self- adjusting to the room and the placement, big rooms mean big floor- space, big virtual opening of the horn-mouth and so maximum contribution of the basses. Smaller room- spaces and close to wall- placement means smaller floor- space, smaller virtual horn-mouth and less contribution of the basses, so the bass- response stays strong and clean.
The Bastanis floor- firing bass-horn speakers are the most excellent way to get the unlimited basses you always were looking for combined with high efficiency, compact sized cabinets and self- adjusting characteristics.
I have heard the same benefits with my Odeons as well as older Dynamikks! speakers (like the 3.X series from early 2000s).
Really good to know. I'll investigate the horn-based Bastanis further. Just to be clear, the Hornings wouldn't count as floor-firing because, though they are down-firing, the mouth is out the back of the speaker at floor level rather than straight down to the floor itself?
The older model Hornings did fire out to the floor but the newer models do not. However, they are not a normal vented design, they are a tapered quarter wave tube design where both the denuded Lowther on the front and the multiple bass drivers on the back load the same quarter wave tube but are tuned independently to the resonance frequency of the respective drivers. So in fact it is a Double tapered quarter wave tube design, like the DIY design I posted early, which does open to the floor. I am not sure how coming out the back in a restricted like vent affects the way they load a room.
Hi, I think the other ones you can consider are the horns Fp15 or fp10. They are from the same company as the universum though different sounding. However, they are very similar to the AN E in terms of looks and placement, and I think much better than the AN E. I have heard them with various SET amps at a friend's place. I think those who like AN E will like them and these are better. Joel of 6 moons also has a review on them if you want to do further reading
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