Both Kevin Scott and I compared consolidated copper and silver to SFz. The consolidated both were quite better with the Kuzma cart
Has vinyl playback technology gone about as far as it can go?
- Thread starter Dogberry
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Both Kevin Scott and I compared consolidated copper and silver to SFz. The consolidated both were quite better with the Kuzma cart
In my mind, I was thinking a very good turntable against an extraordinary table. I would be ranking my turntable as poor. Forget it. My TT is just never going to get there. It's losing so much information.
Your TT is very good value. It was better than the Dohmann 2 in a direct compare set up by analog experts. Not saying it can’t be improved on, but it is good enough unless you want to enter into a race
I think some are missing the point of the video. Or I heard different and misunderstood. My take is the embedded information is on such a nano scale, that it takes a heroic effort on the table manufacturer, tone arm, cartridge and setup, as well as the stand to achieve enough stability for the cartridge to extract the minute grain structure in the groove. Anything less and it glosses right over it. I call it skipping the micro undulations. My take was there are only a handfull of complete, table, arm, cartridge capable of capturing it. The rest do not. Its lost information. Not distorted. Simply lost. That was my take.
The consolidated was less quiet, had more “color” which did not fit the Etsuro, nor the Kondo io-m or the Miyajima.
The Kondo had a much blacker background and sounded more dynamic with less color.
Kevin may have a hidden agenda as he is a dealer.
Sure my table is good enough. But the topic was not about good enough. Its was, has vinyl peaked in technology. I think I heard the guys in the video say no. There is such micro detail in the vinyl, they are still trying to figure out how to capture it.
Your table has a slight bump based on suspension. The rest is just the cartridge and arm. I have heard it do well with FR and Schroeder CB. The Rada phono is also excellent.
I think you’re close to the mark. JRB said that the cutting lathes were already out of perfect alignment and had bearing tolerances, but that these tools would produce a nice normal distribution of errors, with his expectation that shooting for the mean would give high probability of good results.
I think this represents a great leap of faith from what I know about cutting errors due to tooling wear and weaknesses.
I do agree with the idea that if you keep working the problem, you will extract more … or at least different … information.
My empirical ear evidence knew that VTA was not the key not long after VTA became the hot issue. I quit chasing it within a few months.
Set up your cartridge and arm as best you can and enjoy your records. Even JRB exclaimed that we’ve enjoyed wonderful music from vinyl for decades.
Going OCD to avoid FOMO seems to just lead to more of both.
FWIW, I think the guy from Ortofon was the sharpest tool in this shed. The fellow from Wilson Benesch was perhaps wise enough to mostly listen.
I didn't pay attention to the Ortofon guy. Not sure why.
The level of precision these guys are talking about, required to have a proper operating vinyl setup is what has kept me from setting mine up after the move. I find it extremely hard to get right. Only JR was able to align the cartridge and arm correctly on my table. And I don't have a good stand. And my room is 2nd floor with too much vibration. Its like hit after hit after hit of reasons to not bother. If my table is good enough per Bonzo, well them, digital is good enough too. And digital requires not setup skills. Its darn close to set it and forget it.
Yes I want my vinyl setup again. But a video as such really does not inspire me to delve into vinyl. In some regards it sets a tone of, no matter what I do, it won't be enough. It does not inspire me to go all Peter and find an American Sound 2000 or some other cream de la cream table. If anything, its more a throw your arms up in defeat. Accept viny will be no more than a few really good records that shine. Just like a few really good digital files do present as pristine in my system.
The level of precision these guys are talking about, required to have a proper operating vinyl setup is what has kept me from setting mine up after the move. I find it extremely hard to get right. Only JR was able to align the cartridge and arm correctly on my table. And I don't have a good stand. And my room is 2nd floor with too much vibration. Its like hit after hit after hit of reasons to not bother. If my table is good enough per Bonzo, well them, digital is good enough too. And digital requires not setup skills. Its darn close to set it and forget it.
Yes I want my vinyl setup again. But a video as such really does not inspire me to delve into vinyl. In some regards it sets a tone of, no matter what I do, it won't be enough. It does not inspire me to go all Peter and find an American Sound 2000 or some other cream de la cream table. If anything, its more a throw your arms up in defeat. Accept viny will be no more than a few really good records that shine. Just like a few really good digital files do present as pristine in my system.
The perfect is the enemy of the good. Pick a format and do your best with it. I could not afford to do both at a high level.
That's a darn good quote. Heard it before but forgot it till you said it.
To the concept of pick one, IF I had to, its really about listening to music. Not equipment. The variety is in digital. I would give up better sound to keep the catalogs of paylist I have developed on Qobuz for Rock, POP, Folk, Ether, Holiday, Jazz. There is so much there. That is another reason I have not dug out the table. Its all at my finer tips now.
I am excited to have vinyl again some day. Just at this time. The effort to do it right is to extreme.
Consolidated Audio
The Consolidated Audio 'Monster Can' MC StepUp Transformer provides wideband passive voltage amplification for your elaborate phono frontend.
www.consolidated-audio.de
No matter how perfect your turntable and set up are, the manufacturing errors in the cutting process are not correctible from the turntable. So even if everything in your set up is perfect, there are still limitations. That is a major factor in the love shown for master tape as opposed to even a great direct to disk recording on vinyl.
You liked the idea that “the best is the enemy of the good.” Maybe another idea from decision theory that you would like is “enough is as good as a feast.” This leads to the concept of satisficing as a contrast to optimizing.
I’m not trying to talk you into diving back down the vinyl rabbit hole. But if you do, you can take it to a very enjoyable level without competing for the perfect vinyl system. Admittedly, from what you describe it is probably very rational to focus on streaming. I love streaming too. Great music is available from many playback sources. Witness the many happy listeners who are seemingly willing to defend their choice of source to the death.
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