Has anyone heard the Devialet D-Premier Integrated Amp/DAC

[cat3600]

We will agree to differ.

Although you say "this is a common phenomenon with audiophiles" I could respond "this is a common phenomenon with reviewers" with regard to the inevitability of their rating "mark 2" gear as significantly audibly superior to "mark 1" - not least because it encourages the readership base to keep buying the magazine and encourages the manufacturers to keep advertising.

I think we best wait for the double blind listening tests of the 240 opposite the D-Premier - and we will be waiting for a long time because no commercially astute magazine editor or equipment manufacturer will go anywhere close.

Having read your post *1002 where you say "Fuses make a huge difference" I can see we are at opposite ends of the spectrum, which is perfectly ok.

While magazines do have vested interest and influenced reviews dictating as such, this is not 100% true and depends on the magazine or the reviewer. In this particular review case your analogy is flawed as the reviewer already has the older model, also since Devialet themselves have said that there is not much of a sound difference, it would be detrimental not positive for the reviewer to state the opposite, if one had to go by your logic above!

Also if you think fuses don't make a differences then obviously you fall in the category of people, who think power conditioners, power cables, speaker cables, interconnects, isolation platform etc. make no differences in sound, which is crap. I absolutely don't believe that every single tweaks will make a difference nor a $5000 power cord will always be better than a say a $500 one. Fuses do make a difference and its well documented, not by reviewers but by individuals in forums which are extremely well versed in audio and full of knowledgeable audiophiles.

When PS audio came out with their PWD Mk II upgrade one of the changes were in fact the fuses apart from the new board and Paul the owner of PS Audio is an extremely honest and direct person, if he did not foresee that the fuse didn't make a difference, he would not have included it in the upgrade, as it cost them a lot more than just normal glass fuses.

In this regard we are not at the opposite spectrum, as most people would disagree with you that fuses don't make a difference. But in the same note everyone is entitled to their own opinion and for me this is a healthy debate, so nothing personal here, cheers!

 

[oelli]

In the review the main differences are pointed out to be in the inputs, the motherboard and the the PSU. Regarding the ADH it is said that is 99% the same but the 1% of difference seems to be the layout not the unit itself. The comment about the PSU being able to reach the same quality level of the old Premier with a PS Audio P5 power plant I think it is particularly interesting as show that these sound improvements could come from pieces that can be changed (opposite to be a radical new ADH for example).
I try to see the positive side of the thing. Devialet will offer an upgrade that will take the D-premier to the same specs of the 240. Other companies won't offer such option and you will have to sell your gear and buy the new model.
For my side I would still probably buy the 240 vs the 170 just for the Watt output.
So even if I am not super happy to spend another 3,500 euros or whatever it will end up being still I am fine to know that my gear won't be obsolete after the upgrade.

I totally agree with you.
The D-Premier was their first product and also a totally new concept not only ADH wise but also regarding the power supply and so on.
It would be a shame if the second incarnations with all the experience made with the D-Premier would not be better.
I think we can take it as a fact that the new models sound better than the D-Premier.

 

[cat3600]

The comment about the PSU being able to reach the same quality level of the old Premier with a PS Audio P5 power plant I think it is particularly interesting as show that these sound improvements could come from pieces that can be changed (opposite to be a radical new ADH for example).

Actually if you read carefully, the reviewer said playing the 170 directly without any power regeneration the sound quality was not very different vs playing it through the power regeneration. He mentions this was however not entirely the case with the older D-Premier, which made more of a difference in sound when not plugged into the power re-generator. I would conclude from this that the newer 170 has a better power supply than the older unit. Also over all in any audio equipment the power supply can play a vital role in the improvement in sound, this does look like to be the case in this instance.

I would also get the new 240 vs the 170 but for now I want to try the 170 and maybe upgrade later. But given the reviewers thought, I would not buy a D-premier now over the 170, no matter how good a deal I got. Yes I know it can be upgraded, which is fine for present owners, but not for someone looking to buy a new unit.

 

[marcor]

Actually if you read carefully, the reviewer said playing the 170 directly without any power regeneration the sound quality was not very different vs playing it through the power regeneration. He mentions this was however not entirely the case with the older D-Premier, which made more of a difference in sound when not plugged into the power re-generator. I would conclude from this that the newer 170 has a better power supply than the older unit. Also over all in any audio equipment the power supply can play a vital role in the improvement in sound, this does look like to be the case in this instance.

I would also get the new 240 vs the 170 but for now I want to try the 170 and maybe upgrade later. But given the reviewers thought, I would not buy a D-premier now over the 170, no matter how good a deal I got. Yes I know it can be upgraded, which is fine for present owners not for someone looking to buy a new unit.

Yes, that is what I understood from the review about the PSU. Perhaps I wasn't clear on my previous post. i meant to say that the new PSU without any power regeneration sounds as almost good as the old one with power generator. The good thing is the PSU is part of the upgrade.
And I agree with you if I would buy a devialet now I would definitively buy the new one, but having already one I am pretty happy to have the option to upgrade rather than sell it and buy a new version

 

[IanG-UK]

While magazines do have vested interest and influenced reviews dictating as such, this is not 100% true and depends on the magazine or the reviewer. In this particular review case your analogy is flawed as the reviewer already has the older model, also since Devialet themselves have said that there is not much of a sound difference, it would be detrimental not positive for the reviewer to state the opposite, if one had to go by your logic above!

Also if you think fuses don't make a differences then obviously you fall in the category of people, who think power conditioners, power cables, speaker cables, interconnects, isolation platform etc. make no differences in sound, which is crap. I absolutely don't believe that every single tweaks will make a difference nor a $5000 power cord will always be better than a say a $500 one. Fuses do make a difference and its well documented, not by reviewers but by individuals in forums which are extremely well versed in audio and full of knowledgeable audiophiles.

When PS audio came out with their PWD Mk II upgrade one of the changes were in fact the fuses apart from the new board and Paul the owner of PS Audio is an extremely honest and direct person, if he did not foresee that the fuse didn't make a difference, he would not have included it in the upgrade, as it cost them a lot more than just normal glass fuses.

In this regard we are not at the opposite spectrum, as most people would disagree with you that fuses don't make a difference. But in the same note everyone is entitled to their own opinion and for me this is a healthy debate, so nothing personal here, cheers!

I think this will be my last post on this thread as I find it is now plagued by unsubstantiated statements and daft ideas. On your own points:

1. Miller did not attempt to quantify the degree of difference between the 170 and the D-Premier. By the way, if you claim my analogy is flawed, how can you then immediately come up with the idea that "since Devialet themselves have said that there is not much of a sound difference, it would be detrimental not positive for the reviewer to state the opposite, if one had to go by your logic above!" Is "the opposite" there is no difference, or there is a lot of a difference? By the way, Miller has not done "double blind" to validate this "opposite" (whatever that is) and I doubt he ever will.

2. I didn't say fuses don't make any difference, I simply disagreed with your view that fuses make a huge difference. If they did, then those who bought the original PS Audio PWD, produced by a highly competent audio company, were unknowingly buying a product which was hugely sonically inferior to that which could be achieved by a simple change of 1" of wire - despite years of development work from PS Audio. And if you think most people think fuses make a difference, where is the evidence?

3. I said nothing about power conditioners, ... , isolation tables. In fact I use a PS Audio conditioner myself. I know Paul McGowan at PS and agree he is an extremely honest and direct person but with an obligation to run a commercially viable operation. If I owned a PPP, would I automatically move to a P5 and then to a P5 with nice expensive fuses. Of course not.

We have differing opinions, I respect that we can have differing views. Enjoy your music!

 

[Eric]

While magazines do have vested interest and influenced reviews dictating as such, this is not 100% true and depends on the magazine or the reviewer. In this particular review case your analogy is flawed as the reviewer already has the older model, also since Devialet themselves have said that there is not much of a sound difference, it would be detrimental not positive for the reviewer to state the opposite, if one had to go by your logic above!

Also if you think fuses don't make a differences then obviously you fall in the category of people, who think power conditioners, power cables, speaker cables, interconnects, isolation platform etc. make no differences in sound, which is crap. I absolutely don't believe that every single tweaks will make a difference nor a $5000 power cord will always be better than a say a $500 one. Fuses do make a difference and its well documented, not by reviewers but by individuals in forums which are extremely well versed in audio and full of knowledgeable audiophiles.

When PS audio came out with their PWD Mk II upgrade one of the changes were in fact the fuses apart from the new board and Paul the owner of PS Audio is an extremely honest and direct person, if he did not foresee that the fuse didn't make a difference, he would not have included it in the upgrade, as it cost them a lot more than just normal glass fuses.

In this regard we are not at the opposite spectrum, as most people would disagree with you that fuses don't make a difference. But in the same note everyone is entitled to their own opinion and for me this is a healthy debate, so nothing personal here, cheers!

cat3600 - I would chime in with gatomusic and kindly suggest you redirect your energy to a more modest debate style. I do not think it is helpful if you are placing other users into certain "categories", nor is your assertion that "most people think differently...", about whatever. Not sure what makes you believe you can speak for "most people" - anyway you are not speaking form me.

 

[cat3600]

cat3600 - I would chime in with gatomusic and kindly suggest you redirect your energy to a more modest debate style. I do not think it is helpful if you are placing other users into certain "categories", nor is your assertion that "most people think differently...", about whatever. Not sure what makes you believe you can speak for "most people" - anyway you are not speaking form me.

This was the original comment made by IanG-UK to my post which was not even directed at him "Having read your post *1002 where you say "Fuses make a huge difference" I can see we are at opposite ends of the spectrum, which is perfectly ok." So I am not sure why I have to change my style to more moderate, when he has come back commenting on every single of my posts from the beginning. Huge is a figure of speech!! One cannot clap with one hand and I am sorry if you don't like my debate style, I will back down certainly if the other person does so too.

In fact it is simply ridiculous, after i posted a link to one of the articles on the new Devialet by another magazine, he went into that article and posted his comments on that website after I posted the link, here is his comments in the comment section:
http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/be...+Emails&utm_medium=email&utm_source=email-137

And with regards to fuses I am not alone in my thinking, other or most people do think differently as I think the following links are only a fraction of the the online discussion on this one topic alone.
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue54/fuses.htm
http://www.stereophile.com/content/hifi-tuning-fuses
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/net/net.html
http://www.hifi-advice.com/3-fuses-compared-review.html
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=tweaks&m=153190
http://www.psaudio.com/vanilla/discussion/comment/9144
http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-62-26.html

Best Regards

 

[cat3600]

I want to move away from all the above topics and seriously I don't think its worth anyone's time debating further, as opinions will differ always!

On a different note my dealer has agreed to lend me his Devialet D-Premier for a few weeks till the 170 comes in, as it looks like it wont happen before the end of July at the earliest. So tomorrow I will be picking it up and and am quite excited. as it will give me a change to evaluate it and see how I like it in my home surroundings. I will post my thoughts on it after a few days as this is going to be very different than other audio stuff that I have had over the years. I really think this dealer with whom I have only dealt for a few months has excellent customer service and needless to say I will probably stick with him for a long time, with this kind of positive experience.

 

[gatomusik]

I think this will be my last post on this thread as I find it is now plagued by unsubstantiated statements and daft ideas.

I hope you will change your mind about leaving the thread. I have disagreed with some of your statements, but never found them disagreeable. When I have tended to extreme comments, your moderating replies have pulled me back to the sensible center and reminded me that I own and enjoy a wonderful product in the D-Premier.

 

[microstrip]

I have just read Paul Miller review of the D170. I have to say that my expectations about the new Devialet's are now high - he clearly states that the D170 has some very specific and clear improvements over the old model, in areas that I have previously considered compromised according to my preferences in the previous version. I will surely listen to the new D240 when it becomes available. All IMHO.

 

[Daz]

I agree that fuses do make a difference - for better or worse. However, I would be hesitant to mess around with the fixed ones on the D-Premier or new units.

The review is interesting and will help sell the new product which is great. However I am not convinced when trying to take from the review that the new model is superior in sound quality to the D-Premier.

This is a magazine review after all and I expect that the reviewer like most of them have certain interests. He is the first to get one for review and I don't think Devialet would select that magazine if they expected an average or negative review. Just try to find a negative professional review of the D-Premier from its launch date to now. However I have come across plenty of private reviews where they simply did not like the sound from the D-Premier. I am taking the review with a at least two grains of salt until people who do no have an interest to give their opinion on the sound difference. In my case a comparison of the D500 v's Dual D-Premier.

The latest firmware is a significant improvement on the D-Premier sound for me and this has only recently come out so I wonder if the reviewer spent much time with the D-Premier operating the new firmware? Also, I doubt it was a true head to head and probably the reviewer was relying on memory of his long use with the D-Premier - majority would have been when the sound was not so good as it is now.

Fwiw personally I and a few others have found that the D-Premier does best without power conditioning.

I would want to hear a 170 or 240 compared to my D-Premier before considering an upgrade and dealers should be allowing such an audition. Of course if sound quality is not your main reason to upgrade then just pay the not inconsiderable amount of money.

I am looking forward to D-Premier owners who are able to compare directly with the new units with the latest firmware. Not interested in those with an interest or who want to justify to themselves that their new lower power rated 170 or 110 is much better than a D-Premier at a substantially lower price.

 

[oelli]

Fwiw personally I and a few others have found that the D-Premier does best without power conditioning.

I am looking forward to D-Premier owners who are able to compare directly with the new units with the latest firmware. Not interested in those with an interest or who want to justify to themselves that their new lower power rated 170 or 110 is much better than a D-Premier at a substantially lower price.

I can confirm that most power related things have negative effect to the D-premier. I had to remove my previous used power cable, my hydra power distribution/filter. But the PS Audio Power Plant has a big positive effect in bringing even more of the Devialet sound character or better non sound character to the listener. Without it the sound is more conventional, with it it is clearer more impulsive and more "energetic".
But I can also understand that for some users this would be too much. Because then the loudspeakers, cables and room has to handle this intensity.
And also as listener one is sometimes more in the mood of listening to "background music" from a kitchen radio than to get an offensive concert sound.
Therfore I also have fun with an old SHARP boom box of the 80 for such moments.

When my dealer gets a new model of the Devialet I will definitely compare it with my D-Premier.

 

[colonel66]

I hope you will change your mind about leaving the thread. I have disagreed with some of your statements, but never found them disagreeable. When I have tended to extreme comments, your moderating replies have pulled me back to the sensible center and reminded me that I own and enjoy a wonderful product in the D-Premier.

@IangG-Uk i echo the sentiments in the quote - you have been (IMO) a very insightful contributor to this read and it would be shame for you to refrain from posting.

 

[Ekmanc]

Let's not turn this into a sob fest of who should stay or not...

 

[gatomusik]

Let's not turn this into a sob fest of who should stay or not...

Seems it's time for me to resign my presence here also, since a bit of civility is an affront. You rough and ready guys preoccupied with questions of where to stick your fuses are more than I can deal with. Bye.

 

[Ekmanc]

Seems it's time for me to resign my presence here also, since a bit of civility is an affront. You rough and ready guys preoccupied with questions of where to stick your fuses are more than I can deal with. Bye.

Toodles.

 

[Jupiter]

I agree that fuses do make a difference - for better or worse. However, I would be hesitant to mess around with the fixed ones on the D-Premier or new units.

The review is interesting and will help sell the new product which is great. However I am not convinced when trying to take from the review that the new model is superior in sound quality to the D-Premier.

This is a magazine review after all and I expect that the reviewer like most of them have certain interests. He is the first to get one for review and I don't think Devialet would select that magazine if they expected an average or negative review. Just try to find a negative professional review of the D-Premier from its launch date to now. However I have come across plenty of private reviews where they simply did not like the sound from the D-Premier. I am taking the review with a at least two grains of salt until people who do no have an interest to give their opinion on the sound difference. In my case a comparison of the D500 v's Dual D-Premier.

The latest firmware is a significant improvement on the D-Premier sound for me and this has only recently come out so I wonder if the reviewer spent much time with the D-Premier operating the new firmware? Also, I doubt it was a true head to head and probably the reviewer was relying on memory of his long use with the D-Premier - majority would have been when the sound was not so good as it is now.

Fwiw personally I and a few others have found that the D-Premier does best without power conditioning.

I would want to hear a 170 or 240 compared to my D-Premier before considering an upgrade and dealers should be allowing such an audition. Of course if sound quality is not your main reason to upgrade then just pay the not inconsiderable amount of money.

I am looking forward to D-Premier owners who are able to compare directly with the new units with the latest firmware. Not interested in those with an interest or who want to justify to themselves that their new lower power rated 170 or 110 is much better than a D-Premier at a substantially lower price.

DAZ, you are right. Mr. Miller could not have Devialets newest update 6.08/2.1. Who doubt should know that such articles for magazines must be ready some weeks (approx. 2-3) before publication. The newest update is dated 9th of July 2013. Mr. Miller had simply forgotten to name Devialets Update 5.7/1.5

Fuses make always ! a different sound. As my experiments told, HiFi-Tuning and Silent Wire ones sharpen the sound or in other words they give a rel. white sound, a result not good for Devialets. AHPs copper ones open the stage and increase the musics colorfulness.
To make it easier with this topic: It is not necessary to open the Devialet, changing the fuses by risking something. The character of the fuses are also evident after changing the householt fuse with them (here T 16 A). The named fuses (6,3 A/250 V) have the same sound character as these 16 A types. After hearing the colourful wide stage sound of the AHPs I was not able to resist trying an AHP into the Devialet.
As noted: Devialet Premier (with the October possible-update) or 240 owners have a new field of sound experiments: The Ethernet cable. Each cable generates its own sound.

 

[Daz]

As noted: Devialet Premier (with the October possible-update) or 240 owners have a new field of sound experiments: The Ethernet cable. Each cable generates its own sound.

Agree. It will be interesting to see what the difference is between Ethernet cable and Air and if there is a clear winner.

 

[nashi]

I think it is a shame that this thread has gone down a path that has led to someone wanting to leave.
The world is big enough to hold many different views about hifi.

I get that sometimes people can be a bit sensitive about their views or take offence easily.
But to appear to take pleasure in driving someone away shows a lack of care in my view.

If you don't like what someone is saying then add that user to your ignore list, at least at first.
There may be others who want you to stay and contribute.

What would be better is for us to have one forum for members who want to talk about the Devialet's sound quality as is and another for people who want to talk about modification.
To kill a good thread over a disagreement about fuses seems ridiculous to me.
What do you think?

 

[Jupiter]

Fuses are the only pieces inside! the Devialet(s), one can influence the soundcharacter. Therefore discussing about them is of great interest. I think all is said to this field (?).
Other pieces like power cables, power conditioners etc. can have the same effects like fuses. Think always, (citation): "What we hear is the mains". The mains is the source of all music. I got never better sound after using a "mains influencer". Have had Accuphase P500 (2 pieces) and some PS-Audio pieces and some other stuff. Without doubt they reduced distortion to a fine less than 0,5% - BUT the music sounds better without these stuff when the quality of the mains was good. That is sometimes the case here and sometimes not.
I agree with a user here: My Devialet do not need any stuff between the wall and its housing. With a PSAudio etc. it may be more dynamic, but is that true ? For my ears it sounds always more or less artificial, not that what I hear in live.