Has anyone heard the Devialet D-Premier Integrated Amp/DAC
- Thread starter FrantzM
- Start date
Guys, let's be welcoming to new members. Just in case you think I say that because he agreed with me, my observations could all be due to placebo and bias
On recommending it to non-audiophiles, that is actually the target market as we saw it if we carried it. I wouldn't call it non-audiophiles as much as non-AV enthusiasts. There are many wealthy individuals for whom the look and compact form factor of this amp has a lot of value. To people here, putting an ugly amp in the room is no big deal
---- Very true, very true indeed Amir. :b
Well, this is actually quite simple - I think you can get a much better sounding gear for the price of Devialet. That is what counts most for Audiophiles. Non audiophiles (aka B&O kind of people) - not so much.
I don't think you can get anywhere close to it for the money. I had a Krell rig before and my preamp alone cost as much as the Devialet does and that rig was not close in one single area, the devialet knocks it out of the park.
If you had the old KSA or FPB (non CX) series, with a Krell CD - that is perfectly possible. But that is not curent state of the art.
Try MSB AnalogDAC + Cary 500.1 monos ($7k + $8k) or Leben 660P (tube) with MetrumHex DAC ($11k+$3K). They will blow your socks off.
Ofc, those are not the two only combinations available.
Take any of the modern great DACs with variable out like BADA, PWD II, MSB AnalogDAC (yes, I have all 3 at home right now) and one of the many great poweramps available - ARC Ref 75 and 150, Spectral 260, Krell EVO 402e etc - and they will be all much better.
Try MSB AnalogDAC + Cary 500.1 monos ($7k + $8k) or Leben 660P (tube) with MetrumHex DAC ($11k+$3K). They will blow your socks off.
Ofc, those are not the two only combinations available.
Take any of the modern great DACs with variable out like BADA, PWD II, MSB AnalogDAC (yes, I have all 3 at home right now) and one of the many great poweramps available - ARC Ref 75 and 150, Spectral 260, Krell EVO 402e etc - and they will be all much better.
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Then you'd still have to add an extra interconnect, an extra power cable and you would still not get as versatile a product with phono stage and so on.
I also don't believe for a second that any Cary or Leben amp will sound anywhere near as good as the Devialet does as an amp, but maybe you prefer the tube sound.
I do agree that the MSB dac might be able to hold it's own tho and it would be an interesting comparison to make.
I also don't believe for a second that any Cary or Leben amp will sound anywhere near as good as the Devialet does as an amp, but maybe you prefer the tube sound.
I do agree that the MSB dac might be able to hold it's own tho and it would be an interesting comparison to make.
Guys, let's be welcoming to new members
On recommending it to non-audiophiles, that is actually the target market as we saw it if we carried it. I wouldn't call it non-audiophiles as much as non-AV enthusiasts. There are many wealthy individuals for whom the look and compact form factor of this amp has a lot of value. To people here, putting an ugly amp in the room is no big deal
I cannot help notice that these comments show up days after one of the most positive review ever in stereophile. This test is not about looks, it is first and foremost about sound quality.
I do not believe in such coincidences and, let's be clear, I do personally question the bias of this contributor. The wording of his posts, his immediate reference to previous comments from Samir,... All that does simply not feel real the least bit, folks into high end audio just don't roam forums one year after a disapointing session to trash products, those folks also don't stop a test after 2 days without testing various interconnects,... and they would not advise such equipment to non audiophiles unless they are high end audio pro themselves, which means pre-existing links withcompetotors.
We all know that the D1 did progress a lot since a year ago, probably more than most high end competitors progress over 2 generations spanning 4-8 years, because of the revolutionary architecture and design of the D1, but I feel there is no point in having a fact based discussion with this gentlemen.
Cheers,
Bernard
I find these comments on the Devialet rather interesting. It could be a case where both "sides" are right as some people expect/want a certain "sound" while others want something else.
As for the "side" I'm on, it's definitely the one that thinks the D-Premier is quite something. As for Stereophile's review, it's quite long after the fact as this product has been on the market for a couple years. Paul Miller of Hi-Fi News in the UK reviewed it first, and then he turned me on to it as he felt it to be the most significant amplifier development of the last 15 years. The fact that he says it's the most impressive product he's ever reviewed for the mag does say something though. I trust he heard what the rest of us did.
I reviewed it more than a year-and-a-half ago and, frankly, haven't heard anything quite as special since. Where the D-Premier might not be "good enough" is simply if it doesn't have enough power. Then again, no amp will be if that's the case. Otherwise...
The D-Premier has many positive attributes, but the three I invite you to explore and compare with other products on the market involve these this things:
1) Play a recording with a lot of spatial information and a truly three-dimensional stage. Familiarize yourself with it on whatever other system you want and then play it trough the D-Premier and see if you don't hear: 1) more information, 2) more starkly defined images, 3) better separation, including a clear-cut delineation between musicians, and 4) a almost holographic presence to the images in the stage. Quite simply, the D-Premier reveals more information than any other set of electronics I've heard that results in sounding, imaging, and detail retrieval that's without peer.
2) Grab an SPL meter an play anything that focuses attention to the mids and highs and play it VERY loudly through any set of electronics. Measure the average SPL. Then do the same thing with the D-Premier and take note if you feel it's not playing loud enough so that you keep turning it up. But check the SPL levels and see if it's the same or higher than what you're were listening at before. What I noticed was the D-Premier was so clean and clear and grainless, that at first I thought it wasn't play loud enough. But then I realized I was listening at far higher levels than before any other amp/preamp combinations were simply sounding louder because they were getting what I like to call "rangy" -- noisy, out of control, etc. The D-Premier remains remarkably composed at any point up to clipping.
3) Finally, the bass. When I first started listening to the D-Premier I feared a lack of bass. So I concentrated on bass-centric recordings and found that what I was hearing wasn't just deep, but astonishingly tight. Bass drums had visceral impact like I'd never heard before. Measurements of the D-Premier show an extremely low output impedance and a sky-high damping factory. It's control of the loudspeaker, particularly in the bass, is vise-like and, in my opinion, better than any amp out there.
These are just a few things that I want to point out because when I read so many comments, there are very few specifics. I encourage you to seek this product out and listen for what I mentioned. If you don't hear a difference, or the difference doesn't matter, so be it. But if you do hear the differences, as I did, you might find it difficult to listen to anything else after and not desire the same.
Here's my review from about a year-and-a-half ago: http://www.soundstagehifi.com/index...5-devialet-d-premier-integrated-amplifier-dac
Thanks,
Doug Schneider
As for the "side" I'm on, it's definitely the one that thinks the D-Premier is quite something. As for Stereophile's review, it's quite long after the fact as this product has been on the market for a couple years. Paul Miller of Hi-Fi News in the UK reviewed it first, and then he turned me on to it as he felt it to be the most significant amplifier development of the last 15 years. The fact that he says it's the most impressive product he's ever reviewed for the mag does say something though. I trust he heard what the rest of us did.
I reviewed it more than a year-and-a-half ago and, frankly, haven't heard anything quite as special since. Where the D-Premier might not be "good enough" is simply if it doesn't have enough power. Then again, no amp will be if that's the case. Otherwise...
The D-Premier has many positive attributes, but the three I invite you to explore and compare with other products on the market involve these this things:
1) Play a recording with a lot of spatial information and a truly three-dimensional stage. Familiarize yourself with it on whatever other system you want and then play it trough the D-Premier and see if you don't hear: 1) more information, 2) more starkly defined images, 3) better separation, including a clear-cut delineation between musicians, and 4) a almost holographic presence to the images in the stage. Quite simply, the D-Premier reveals more information than any other set of electronics I've heard that results in sounding, imaging, and detail retrieval that's without peer.
2) Grab an SPL meter an play anything that focuses attention to the mids and highs and play it VERY loudly through any set of electronics. Measure the average SPL. Then do the same thing with the D-Premier and take note if you feel it's not playing loud enough so that you keep turning it up. But check the SPL levels and see if it's the same or higher than what you're were listening at before. What I noticed was the D-Premier was so clean and clear and grainless, that at first I thought it wasn't play loud enough. But then I realized I was listening at far higher levels than before any other amp/preamp combinations were simply sounding louder because they were getting what I like to call "rangy" -- noisy, out of control, etc. The D-Premier remains remarkably composed at any point up to clipping.
3) Finally, the bass. When I first started listening to the D-Premier I feared a lack of bass. So I concentrated on bass-centric recordings and found that what I was hearing wasn't just deep, but astonishingly tight. Bass drums had visceral impact like I'd never heard before. Measurements of the D-Premier show an extremely low output impedance and a sky-high damping factory. It's control of the loudspeaker, particularly in the bass, is vise-like and, in my opinion, better than any amp out there.
These are just a few things that I want to point out because when I read so many comments, there are very few specifics. I encourage you to seek this product out and listen for what I mentioned. If you don't hear a difference, or the difference doesn't matter, so be it. But if you do hear the differences, as I did, you might find it difficult to listen to anything else after and not desire the same.
Here's my review from about a year-and-a-half ago: http://www.soundstagehifi.com/index...5-devialet-d-premier-integrated-amplifier-dac
Thanks,
Doug Schneider
Extremely well put Doug especially the resolution and spatial rendering which no doubt comes from the extreme lack of distortion and noise is unlike anything I have ever heard before, this is clean as opposed to everything in the past being a little hazy and gray.
The bass btw was the one area I thought it wouldn't stand a chance against my old Krells but the articulation, resolution and grip over the drivers is simply a lot better with the D1. For example double pedal drums on rock music used to be a blur now I can clearly hear every single beat separate and defined from the rest.
The bass btw was the one area I thought it wouldn't stand a chance against my old Krells but the articulation, resolution and grip over the drivers is simply a lot better with the D1. For example double pedal drums on rock music used to be a blur now I can clearly hear every single beat separate and defined from the rest.
---- I was wondering; is there more 'prejudice' towards "digital", or "analog"? :b
My best guess, in the world we live today, ...the kids, and with all the latest technologies; "analog".
___________
BTW Doug, excellent post above, right on, well put, and positive all the way, even for people who think that this product is targeted to customers with a high-end taste of "designer looks".
...And thanks for that review's link. :b
No, but you first did bring out that point yourself, and I was just replying to your post's content. :b
Cheers,
Bob
When I saw it on the cover of Stereophile I thought they had been taken over by Bed Bath and Beyond. Nicest looking bathroom scale I've ever seen!
All kidding aside I think these all in one type products are nice if space and/or WAF is a factor. Why not take it one step further and put it inside the speakers then all you need are power cords.
If someone could figure out how to get in/on wall speakers to sound good then there would be no clutter at all. Unfortunately I have yet to hear any in wall speakers that create an illusion of depth.
I have not heard the Devialet so can't comment on it's sound. It would have to sound really good to justify it's price level.
Nicest looking bathroom scale I've ever seen!All kidding aside I think these all in one type products are nice if space and/or WAF is a factor. Why not take it one step further and put it inside the speakers then all you need are power cords.
If someone could figure out how to get in/on wall speakers to sound good then there would be no clutter at all. Unfortunately I have yet to hear any in wall speakers that create an illusion of depth.
I have not heard the Devialet so can't comment on it's sound. It would have to sound really good to justify it's price level.
Regarding the "all in one" comment, if one is really serious about performance, you have to keep a wide-open mind.
How many gain stages do you need/want in a system. How does the addition of stage after stage after stage decrease distortion and noise and increase transparency? From my experience, it doesn't.
I believe one of the strengths of the D-Premier is that it is an all-in-one device with a circuit length of about 2 inches. I'd take that any day over multiple gain stages, connectors, and cables.
Doug Schneider
How many gain stages do you need/want in a system. How does the addition of stage after stage after stage decrease distortion and noise and increase transparency? From my experience, it doesn't.
I believe one of the strengths of the D-Premier is that it is an all-in-one device with a circuit length of about 2 inches. I'd take that any day over multiple gain stages, connectors, and cables.
Doug Schneider
No argument. If you like it that's all that matters for you. My speakers require more power so it's not even an option for me. I also have a vinyl front end as well.
The other side of the coin is that all those things together in the same box can cross contaminate noise from one section to the next unless shielded adequately. There is no free lunch. There are just better implementations. If they have solved that issue then it should be pretty good.
I still haven't heard this amp as I would have liked to. Distribution seems limited or at least I think.
As for the price level the product is an amp and a DAC wireless at that in one small package.. 240 w/ch .. Separately you may spend quite a bit to get that if it is any close to the kudos it has garnered.
I also believe that it challenges audiophile orthodoxy; the same with integrated amplifiers, speakers, digital room correction and EQ. And for that there will be resistance. As much as we are reluctant to admit it: We like our boxes and we prefer them big and shiny...
I am still interested in this product.
Completely OT. Audiophiles do take B&O and its looks for proof of appearance over performance. For the most part they are correct ... The Beolab 5 however, their top-of-the line speaker, would be an interesting product to audition. What looks like a pair of speakers is actually a preamp, DAC, amp and room/bass correction all you need is a SPDIF transport .. This for about $16,000. Please if you do have the opportunity audition it with an open your mind ... many previous assumptions may be challenged ...
I agree 100% Doug...wait until Vivid come up with their full active Giya/Devialet combo.....it's in the work from what I've seen on the Vivid Audio Facebook page.
Guy La Rue
Guy La Rue
The D-Premier has a built-in phono stage. As for contamination -- it's all DSP except for the final stage that's a DAC that drivers the amp.
As for the "better implementations." Where? As you mentioned, you haven't heard it.
Doug Schneider
Until someone invites me over to hear it you have me at a disadvantage.
I am curious what speakers are you using with yours? In what size room?
If one is not completely satisfied with the sound of an all in one system there are certainly less opportunities to tweak the sound to your liking.
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