Great article on "Analogue Warmth"

[Blizzard]

yes. a few.

and digital versions of many as well as many Lp pressings.

all of which reinforce my views.

when you actually listen to high level analog we can go from there. you simply do not know what you are talking about. you are just guessing about how things are.

Once again you fail to acknowledge that the gear and format used to make the digital copy has a bearing on how it will sound. To my knowledge, Jan hasn't released anything yet that used his new Hapi based rig. Most of his digital DSD downloads were made using an older inferior Korg ADC in DSD 64 and 128.


Of course you always turn to the same response whenever you can't backup your end. So are you calling Jan a liar, or are you saying he has poor ears? I put more weight on his opinion than even my own.

I would never claim to have his level of experience. This is why I use his opinion as reference.

 

[TBone]

I'll come out and say though, that as an analogue consumer format, some companies really did produce some pretty amazing stuff considering. No, it obviously does not compete with open reel, but I actually prefer, for example, the cassettes made by Telarc in the early 90s (the ones made on their new at the time duplicator using TDK SA tape) compared to the corresponding Telarc CDs of the era. It's only been in recent years when those Telarc recordings were remastered to SACD that they markedly improved on the cassettes to my ears. Mind you, these days you could take the 16 bit, 50 KHz source material and make a significantly better sounding CD than they did 25 years ago thanks mainly to improvements in resampling algorithms and manufacture / production, but still, those cassettes were amazing for the time, especially in an era where most of us were reeling from how bad CD sounded.

Even EMI, DG and Decca in their final cassette years produced some very nice material.

With that in mind, remember when cd players first started becoming standard eq in cars? Well, my cassette player sounded absolutely amazing compared to 'em when playing back my home rec'd LP pressings. No dolby, the cars playback heads aligned to match the recorder(Akai) ... and unlike CD, they never skipped.

Azimuth was all over the place with cassettes, hence good cassette playback was very much a moving target.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Once again you fail to acknowledge that the gear and format used to make the digital copy has a bearing on how it will sound. To my knowledge, Jan hasn't released anything yet that used his new Hapi based rig. Most of his digital DSD downloads were made using an older inferior Korg ADC in DSD 64 and 128.


Of course you always turn to the same response whenever you can't backup your end. So are you calling Jan a liar, or are you saying he has poor ears? I put more weight on his opinion than even my own.

I would never claim to have his level of experience. This is why I use his opinion as reference.

at least we are clear that you have no idea about how these formats differ.

 

[Blizzard]

at least we are clear that you have no idea about how these formats differ.

All I know is DSD 256 playback sounds better than 128 on my system. But no I don't claim to have more experience than Jan does with analog and DSD 256 made with the Hapi.

Either can you, so until you do, stop saying analogue is superior based on your outdated inferior digital tape copies.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

umm yes crazy swiss guys with more money than sense do just this

Ha yes - I saw those guys in Munich. Shame their catalogue is so darned piddly small.

 

[Blizzard]

I am confused by your test, Blizz. Surely the elephant in the room here is that the many wonderful historical recordings from some of greatest ever musicians were recorded and mastered and only available in analogue formats. Many have been re-released in red book but sound average. The labels will never release a master tape dsd 256 version.

Fat chance getting a hold of these tapes for your personal R2R collection as well. Unfortunately we are at the mercy of the owners of these tapes when it comes to how we can experience them in our homes. But these tapes will eventually crumble into dust. So digital archiving is the best way to preserve them. We are finally at the level where this can be done without any loss distinguishable with the trained human ear. This is good news, nothing to frown upon.

Eventually all of these digital archives will be available in full quality for all of us to enjoy.

 

[TBone]

All of the characteristics analogue buff's love about analogue, can be emulated with high resolution DSP. But the best part is, it can be disabled with a push of a button when the studio did their job well. Much easier and cheaper than changing out hardware for each album.

Argghhh

(note to self) tbone, it's the festive season ... and remember ... not everyone needs to be so enlightened ...

 

[Blizzard]

Argghhh

(note to self) tbone, it's the festive season ... and remember ... not everyone needs to be so enlightened ...

Yes I know. They say "ignorance is bliss" for a reason!

 

[TBone]

Yes I know. They say "ignorance is bliss" for a reason!

yes, ignorance is as bliss as generalist are silly.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Fat chance getting a hold of these tapes for your personal R2R collection as well. Unfortunately we are at the mercy of the owners of these tapes when it comes to how we can experience them in our homes. But these tapes will eventually crumble into dust. So digital archiving is the best way to preserve them. We are finally at the level where this can be done without any loss distinguishable with the trained human ear. This is good news, nothing to frown upon.

Eventually all of these digital archives will be available in full quality for all of us to enjoy.

Sorry - I was mainly referring to vinyl rather than r2r. Can I digitise my vinyl and make it sound almost identical - I would say yes based on my Tascam double dsd copies this week. The issue is that you need to own the vinyl in the first place or know someone else because the labels won't release a double dsd or quad dsd version ever.

 

[Blizzard]

Sorry - I was mainly referring to vinyl rather than r2r. Can I digitise my vinyl and make it sound almost identical - I would say yes based on my Tascam double dsd copies this week. The issue is that you need to own the vinyl in the first place or know someone else because the labels won't release a double dsd or quad dsd version ever.

Well unless the vinyl was cut direct from the mic feeds, it was sourced from tape, or digital. So you will never be able to beat a digital copy made with an ADC such as the Hapi in DSD 256 from the master tape, from vinyl. Unless of course the original master tape is damaged. That's the case with Bob Dylan's "Times they are A-changin". The original master has worn out. I have a mono Vinyl rip of that album made from a mint early vinyl. The man who made the rip claims it's the definitive version. Sundazed made a copy of it recently, but not as good.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Well unless the vinyl was cut direct from the mic feeds, it was sourced from tape, or digital. So you will never be able to beat a digital copy made with an ADC such as the Hapi in DSD 256 from the master tape, from vinyl. Unless of course the original master tape is damaged. That's the case with Bob Dylan's "Times they are A-changin". The original master has worn out. I have a mono Vinyl rip of that album made from a mint early vinyl. The man who made the rip claims it's the definitive version. Sundazed made a copy of it recently, but not as good.

I was talking about vinyl sourced from tape specifically. As I keep on saying you aren't going to get the digital copy of the master tape from a Hapi in dsd 256 - no one will make it. So your choice is original vinyl or some shitty version mastered badly on red book - that was the essence of my point.

I don't dispute that you won't achieve sublime sound if you are lucky enough to know a friend with a fab vinyl rig and a Horus to digitise their cherished collection in dsd and give it to you. Alas - that is a pipe dream for most of us.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Well unless the vinyl was cut direct from the mic feeds, it was sourced from tape, or digital. So you will never be able to beat a digital copy made with an ADC such as the Hapi in DSD 256 from the master tape, from vinyl. Unless of course the original master tape is damaged. That's the case with Bob Dylan's "Times they are A-changin". The original master has worn out. I have a mono Vinyl rip of that album made from a mint early vinyl. The man who made the rip claims it's the definitive version. Sundazed made a copy of it recently, but not as good.

so tell us about all the experience you have with vinyl that puts you in a position to make any claim about how it might sound.

 

[Blizzard]

I was talking about vinyl sourced from tape specifically. As I keep on saying you aren't going to get the digital copy of the master tape from a Hapi in dsd 256 - no one will make it. So your choice is original vinyl or some shitty version mastered badly on red book - that was the essence of my point.

I don't dispute that you won't achieve sublime sound if you are lucky enough to know a friend with a fab vinyl rig and a Horus to digitise their cherished collection in dsd and give it to you. Alas - that is a pipe dream for most of us.

Maybe not today, this doesn't mean they will never be available. DSD downloads are getting more popular by the day. DSD ADC's are getting cheaper by the day too. Many coming out in 2016. Hapi quality ADC's will be commoditized soon. It won't be much longer before analogue heads will run out of excuses

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . "Analogue warmth" is just a euphemism for "Distortion and coloration" It has a much nicer ring to it than "distortion and coloration". . . .

Do you have to lower the intellectual discourse of so many threads with this sarcastically written declaration which is, in fact, nothing but a personal opinion of yours?

 

[Blizzard]

so tell us about all the experience you have with vinyl that puts you in a position to make any claim about how it might sound.

Until I have the level of experience that the masters in the industry have, I will never make this claim. But it is common sense that the sound quality of a master tape will never be bettered by cutting vinyl from it. Unless you have the mic feeds to work with, you will never beat the original source. Although it can be matched with the Hapi and DSD 256 according to the masters in the industry.

I don't have the original rare vinyl of this Bob Dylan album, but I trust the source it came from. The sound is outstanding, the best I've heard the album. And it's only in 24/96 PCM. I can just imagine if a Hapi was used in DSD 256.

 

[Detlof]

hay you people understand that music through the prisim of the self is only truely relevent in the monment. once you herd it twice its broken.
get over it.

Now that is the absolute truth, if you get through the sound to the music behind it. I have tried to hear twice. It does not work. As with all things in life, if your are struck by something or someone and it shook you to the bone, you cannot repeat, replicate it. If you have not experienced this at least once, no matter through what or whom, you have not really lived, I think.

 

[Blizzard]

Do you have to lower the intellectual discourse of so many threads with this sarcastically written declaration which is, in fact, nothing but a personal opinion of yours?

Well it is true. This is in fact the source of the "analogue warmth" so many cherish. Recognizing this does not mean you can no longer enjoy it.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Maybe not today, this doesn't mean they will never be available. DSD downloads are getting more popular by the day. DSD ADC's are getting cheaper by the day too. Many coming out in 2016. Hapi quality ADC's will be commoditized soon. It won't be much longer before analogue heads will run out of excuses

I so want to believe it Blizz. My GG specialises in DSD reproduction so I have a vested interest. Nonetheless, I recognise that DSD will never catch on to become a mainstream format. In fact I would guess that DSD is no more of a short term fad than the so called vinyl revival.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Now that is the absolute truth, if you get through the sound to the music behind it. I have tried to hear twice. It does not work. As with all things in life, if your are struck by something or someone and it shook you to the bone, you cannot repeat, replicate it. If you have not experienced this at least once, no matter through what or whom, you have not really lived, I think.

I have recordings that give me goosebumps every time - I always found this a good proxy of musical connection. I know it can't get to the deeply ingrained emotional connection on that occasion that is forever ingrained in your deepest grey matter but it is still significant as to be entirely tansportative and invoke a physiological response.